sh madobe: im inclined 2 the view of central government but

[Murax]

EliteSomalia,

The debate isn't which is better. My point is that ship has sailed, its over.

[PrinceDaadi]

THERE IS AND WILL NOT BE ANY CENTRAL GOVERNMENT IN SOMALIA.

Actually either there will be a strong central system in Somalia or there will be no Somalia, mark my words.

Correct. These people do not understand that a federal Somalia is a weak somalia, hence why ethiopia/kenya/uganda are all pushing for it. If there isn't a central government, then there can never be a central army because we'll all try to secure our respective regions forgetting we'll be collectively weak. Waxaan maqli jiray doqonka 12 indhood buu qabaa, 11 indhoodna walaalkiis ayuu ku arkaa. We're so busy guarding ourselves against one another, guarding against clan X that we fail to see the real enemies who are far more powerful and far more lethal.

I was in Kenya in 2010 when the new constitution of Kenya was in discussion, some people wanted federal system others wanted centralized system but they took a different root and set up a devolved system of government, Kenya would have a 47 counties each count will have a governor and will be in charge of its social affairs. Kenyans of all folks did agreed that federalism is not for them and that Kenya will end they day they take federalism.

Federalism is not for Somalia and no one can explain to us why we should take federalism! personally i prefer we end this union if we cant live together instead of hiding behind clan federalism.

[BigBreak]

i bet you if the darood snetter (most of them) were another clan they wouldnt support federalism - this is an undeniable fact and proves it is unfair from a clan perspective
no region should merge with another region in my opinion

[eliteSomali]

EliteSomalia,

The debate isn't which is better. My point is that ship has sailed, its over.

no that's not your point. I don't think you understand the repercussions of adopting federalism in Somalia. I always laugh when I see folks using USA as an example because we are nothing like the americans. We think, behave and make life changing decisions along tribal lines. We pledge unquestioned and blind loyalty to the clan when it's wrong, when it's right and regardless of what it really offers. A person like you would first think "mareexaan" then maybe, Somalia. Maxaad ka faa'iidi taas? Let's give your clan everything it needs, let's give it jubbaland let's give it the president, let's give it the PM, let's give them the commanding positions of the national army; now with all that in their hands, do you think they can defend against Ethiopia if it attacked them? I think not. The same goes for all clans. What we need is push this clan identity to the backseat. We might hate each other, but you can always count on Ethiopia to hate you more and personally, I would say burn the new dastuur.

[original dervish]

So if you follow your logic....we hand ourselves over to a single clan dominated city/govt etc...and that will make us stronger collectively.
What you fail to realise is that the most somalis suffered under central rule, first by the govt then the local clans.
Somalis don`t see Kenya/ethiopia as the enemy, until you resolve that, there will never be a central Govt.

[eliteSomali]

So if you follow your logic....we hand ourselves over to a single clan dominated city/govt etc...and that will make us stronger collectively.
What you fail to realise is that the most somalis suffered under central rule, first by the govt then the local clans.
Somalis don`t see Kenya/ethiopia as the enemy, until you resolve that, there will never be a central Govt.

If Ethiopia isn't your enemy who is? War ethiopia is a bigger enemy to you than Israel is to Palestine and it's unfortunate you've got your eyes fixed on other somalis.

[mahad9of9]

Actually either there will be a strong central system in Somalia or there will be no Somalia, mark my words.

Before 2007 you had no hope, and after 2009 mogadisho felt law and order, and nov - 2012 they removed all the check points, and in less than 3 months you are already threating somalis?



You are crazy, ara boowe dhibta daa oo naga fariiso aa u hadlin sidii alkahoolyacun. Do i have to remind you this gov is for somalis, and the constitution is our agreement between us, learn to respect

[Tanker]

fuck federalism it will destroy somalia and somali people never approved the daastuur it was made by the enemies of somalia who want us to fail and we will fail with the new dastuur where clan will act like a nation and figth aganist each other

[Murax]

EliteSomalia,

The debate isn't which is better. My point is that ship has sailed, its over.

no that's not your point. I don't think you understand the repercussions of adopting federalism in Somalia. I always laugh when I see folks using USA as an example because we are nothing like the americans. We think, behave and make life changing decisions along tribal lines. We pledge unquestioned and blind loyalty to the clan when it's wrong, when it's right and regardless of what it really offers. A person like you would first think "mareexaan" then maybe, Somalia. Maxaad ka faa'iidi taas? Let's give your clan everything it needs, let's give it jubbaland let's give it the president, let's give it the PM, let's give them the commanding positions of the national army; now with all that in their hands, do you think they can defend against Ethiopia if it attacked them? I think not. The same goes for all clans. What we need is push this clan identity to the backseat. We might hate each other, but you can always count on Ethiopia to hate you more and personally, I would say burn the new dastuur.

1st, lets get over the whole 'You want I want'. For what its worth, I agree for a miniture sized, homogenious nation of only about 8-10 million people Federalism is kinda ridiculous, and Central rule would make a lot more sense. However, there was a transitional period Where this stuff could have been debated. Now that a constitution has been formed, and a Parliement, President, elected based on that premise, its foolish to debate which is better because its a moot point as its gonna happen, or We have a worse situation Where a Government basically decides to ignore the Charter they drafted and swore to adhere to. The debate should be how to make federalism work and advantageous to Somalia's collective interest instead of 'Whats better Central rule vs Federal rule'. Lets operate within the framework of what exists vs fantasy

[eliteSomali]

Murax: Are you saying it's passed due to discuss which is better so let's settle for federalism and somehow make it work in our favor? Please explain to me how that's possible? Federalism in Somalia does not mean federalism where there is a national government, then subordinate governments that operate semi-independently in constituents. It means qabiilism. It means we're litigating qabyaalad . It means every clan will put the interest of the clan before the interest of the nation and it should be the other way around. It's catastrophe! You've shown yourself on the forums on the amount of clan topics you partake in so don't shirk away from the fact that you'd think and work along qabiil designations. It's not an accusation but a an accurate observation.

[original dervish]

There is a long way to go before we can even consider returning to a centralised Govt system.
Federalism is what we have to work with at the moment.
There are far to many moryaan around to be entrusted with so much power.

[Transformer]

We think, behave and make life changing decisions along tribal lines. We pledge unquestioned and blind loyalty to the clan when it's wrong, when it's right and regardless of what it really offers.

Exactly why we shouldn't putt all our eggs in one basket; its not Ethiopia that threatens my clans interest, it only cross Somalia's border when its security comes under threat from within Somalia. I'm pro federalism not because I'm against a central system, no it's because I see the federal system as a safety net from clannish leader in Villa Somalia whose decisions might end up hurting my clans interest.

[Murax]

Murax: Are you saying it's passed due to discuss which is better so let's settle for federalism and somehow make it work in our favor? Please explain to me how that's possible? Federalism in Somalia does not mean federalism where there is a national government, then subordinate governments that operate semi-independently in constituents. It means qabiilism. It means we're litigating qabyaalad . It means every clan will put the interest of the clan before the interest of the nation and it should be the other way around. It's catastrophe! You've shown yourself on the forums on the amount of clan topics you partake in so don't shirk away from the fact that you'd think and work along qabiil designations. It's not an accusation but a an accurate observation.

I give up.

[PrinceDaadi]

EliteSomalia,

The debate isn't which is better. My point is that ship has sailed, its over.

Actually it is not, in order this federalism to become constitutional it has to be put on referendum.

[original dervish]

What....do you think a referendum can be bought and paid for like the presidential election?

Somalia is at least 10+ years away from holding referenda.
So it looks as though the existing federal constitution will be with us for a while yet.