Non Somali, wanting to Marry a Somali Girl

[InaSamaale]

As Salaama Aleikom,

I was wondering if someone could help me with my query in sha allah.

I am a Muslim brother alhamdulilah, am half white and half yemeny and am looking to get married to this Somali Sister. I have known this girl for 5 years and we dated when we first met but then she broke up with me as she started practising which I was fine with as she was doing it for the Sake of Allah. Ever since all i could think of is marrying this sister, I remember when we where together she always use to say that she couldnt marry a non somali as she is in love with her culture, somali language etc and if she married someone that could speak to somali she wouldnt know how he would communicate with her family or have the same value's as her as she was brought up within the somali culture. So within 2years I learned fluent Somali and alhamdulilah I can speak the language fluently now. I recently got back in contact with the sister and she said she would want to get married to me however her father or uncles would not except this as I am not somali. How can I go around this? I am in love with this Sister and I dont want to marry any other girl. How can I get her father to accept me? My family knows that I want to marry her and is 100% supportive. My mum and sisters love this girl as if shes already part of the family. But its just her side of the family now! I cant let this go and without her fathers and uncles approving she is not willing to marry me. HELPP

I liked your version on Ummah forums better. Let us know if there is a happily ever after.

[SiennaEarth]

Masha'Allah brother, yes marry her and make it halal. However if her father continues saying no, you must respect that and back away, you don't want to intervene in her relationship between her and her father. All the best wishes, may Allah make it easy for both of you

[zamindawari]

Hi

My name is Yusuf I am a Half Arab half Cadaan guy that lives in Wales, I want to Marry a girl that is Isaac I am deeply in love with her but on a few occasions she has told me that it would be quite hard for her Father to accept me. I speak fluently Somali and I only learned the Language so I could communicate with her family in somali in the future. I really want to Marry her for the sake of all Allah and I know my Family will accept her as my mother already loves her to bits. I want to make it Halal can you guys give me you're view on this I would appreciate it.


Thanks

Firstly, it is important that I state that I am not Somali and therefore my views do not represent those of Somalis and may possibly even drastically contrast from Somalis in cultural worldview. (end disclaimer)
Secondly, this is none of my business but since you have chosen to make your private life a public affair by means of the internet and I read it, well... I do not know all of the details but I can affirm, based solely on what you have written here, that you are, at the very least, walking in and out of haram territory! While I am impressed and intrigued at your devotion in learning their language, this nonetheless, does not excuse an almost certainly illegal relationship. I am concerned and curious in how it is that you have managed to establish any form of relationship with someone's daughter whose father does not accept you?! In my culture, you do not speak to, look at, see the faces of, or come to know in ANY way our women until you first go through the men of the family and a meeting is arranged with both famalies in attendance. Yet here you are, and you've known her for such a time period that you have learned Somali and still her father does no accept you? Something in this picture is off and I'm not sure what it is. Does the father know that you communicate with his daughter? Or is this something that only occurs in the shadows? I will give you one thing, you have a lot nerve to publicly admit your continued relations with a Somali girl on a Somali forum, even behind the perceived safety of the internet. There's a word used in Dari, "sharm", that's something you would do well to acquire. It means shame.

[zamindawari]

you don't want to intervene in her relationship between her and her father.

Somali men should not tolerate this kind of beghairati behavior. The only way this kid can "intervene" in a relationship between father and daughter is if the father does not effectively put an end to the problem. I do not know these sort of inner workings in Somali culture but if the father has denied this individual once, how is it that this is still an issue. A denial is a denial, correct? In my world, such matters are not available for appeal except in very VERY rare exceptional circumstances.

[Titanium]

I will give you sincere advice brother. Marry her. If you and the girl are happily in love, marry her. The father will eventually accept since the mother has accepted. The mother is the head of the household in Somali homes. They have the final say over the fathers in what happens. The mother will convince the father to accept.

ALSO, the father has no right to refuse you. It is not Islamic what he is doing. If you a good practicing Muslim, he can't refuse you to his daughter. This is cultural nonsense. It has nothing to do with Islam. He will come to terms to the marriage and he will eventually accept it.

[SiennaEarth]

you don't want to intervene in her relationship between her and her father.

Somali men should not tolerate this kind of beghairati behavior. The only way this kid can "intervene" in a relationship between father and daughter is if the father does not effectively put an end to the problem. I do not know these sort of inner workings in Somali culture but if the father has denied this individual once, how is it that this is still an issue. A denial is a denial, correct? In my world, such matters are not available for appeal except in very VERY rare exceptional circumstances.

Although it was wrong for them to see each other before consulting the father in the first place, you cannot blame everything on the boy, it's not like he forced her to do anything. Futhermore they were Jahils at the time and the girl become practising so realised what she was doing was wrong thus stopped talking to him, but because they have feelings for each other that they cannot just ignore, they want to get married. I don't see the problem with that. Yes if the father said no, a no is a no and it should no longer be an issue, but as you can see he is still persistent, so wants to keep trying to ask for her hand. Maybe the first time didn't work but who knows if the father might change his mind? Anyway we live in a westernised country where boys and girls talk. There is no such thing as the father putting an end to a problem, if she still decided to talk to this boy, how else can he exactly put an end to the problem? Chain her to her bed? I don't think so. Anyway I reckon it's the girls choice who she wishes to marry. However it's her parents responsibility to protect their daughter from people they believe are not good for her or suitable, but I don't think it's right that they dictate her life and tell her who she can and cannot marry. He's Muslim, she's Muslim whats the problem? We are Muslims this body of ours and so called race will not be with us when we die, everything is temporary including our so called race, ethnicity, tribes etc.. Plus Islam encourages multiculturalism, those who do not wish to embrace it, it's up to them, but those who do should not be stopped. Live and let live.

[SiennaEarth]

I will give you sincere advice brother. Marry her. If you and the girl are happily in love, marry her. The father will eventually accept since the mother has accepted. The mother is the head of the household in Somali homes. They have the final say over the fathers in what happens. The mother will convince the father to accept.

ALSO, the father has no right to refuse you. It is not Islamic what he is doing. If you a good practicing Muslim, he can't refuse you to his daughter. This is cultural nonsense. It has nothing to do with Islam. He will come to terms to the marriage and he will eventually accept it.

Yeah lets see your reaction when you have a daughter and she runs away with a guy you don't approve of. Kulaha ignore the father and marry her, waar hoi have some manners and respect edab daro ayo ku hayso, do not encourage some negro to marry someones daughter without his consent.

[Titanium]

The only way I don't approve a guy is if he is not Muslim and he is a bad person. Other than that, I will accept. I don't care if he is Chinese or Native Indian.

That father's intolerance shouldn't be the reason why two happily loving people can't marry. He shouldn't win.

In Islam, the father cannot refuse for nonsense reasons. He should follow the religion more than the father. He has God's approval. That is all he needs. If the girl wants to go ahead with it, they should do it. Nothing should stop them.

[DonCorleone]

She can marry the half white half ay-rab if she wants

But the kids will NOT BE SOMALI

rather QUADROONS OR MULATOS

Not somalis.

So if she's into leaving her culture.

go for it. we don't need selloutsin our genepool

she can have fun being called nigger and abed in 2 differnt languages and cultures of her husband

[zamindawari]

Futhermore they were Jahils at the time and the girl become practising so realised what she was doing was wrong thus stopped talking to him, but because they have feelings for each other that they cannot just ignore, they want to get married.

Thank you for clarifying that, I missed this vital detail and judged too harshly initially.

Anyway we live in a westernised country where boys and girls talk. There is no such thing as the father putting an end to a problem

You are correct and this is why I am returning to Afghanistan in 1 year and 8 months from now. Neither I nor my wife can ethically raise our daughter in the west beyond age 5. We considered home schooling and keeping her confined to the house but eventually it would get to a point where it would be virtually cruel to have a child in a country where they are forbidden from participating in almost everything and they basically just exist in a room, in a house with closely monitered internet access and no television or communication with the outside. Apparently many serious orthodox Christians here have a similar set up. But I still have a house in Musa Qala, so it just seems the wiser solution.

ALSO, the father has no right to refuse you. It is not Islamic what he is doing. If you a good practicing Muslim, he can't refuse you to his daughter.

As a talib e ilm, I should issue a response based in solely in Islam and not in Pashtun tribalism... I note that Titanium's statement is correct. According to the respected Hanafi fuquha (and all four Madhabs), the wali must have Islamically relevant reasons to deny the marriage. Infact and this may shock you, in Hanafi fiqh, we maintain the view that the wali is not necessarily rukn or essential for the marriage. Rather, it is a prerequisite (shart). What this means in Hanafi fiqh is that when a young lady who has reached the age of full-maturity who is allowed to execute her own legal contracts (around 20 years old in most societies) without the permission of a wali, when she executes the marriage without the agreement of her marriage guardian, such a woman's marriage is deemed valid. Nevertheless, she is considered sinful for not fulfilling the prerequisite of having a guardian initiate the contract. (She must answer to Allah for that.) Such a woman's marriage will nonetheless, be acknowledged as being valid. As for the other 3 madhabs, the marriage would have to be annulled and the two parties would have to be remarried with all the appropriate conditions fulfilled.

[zamindawari]

She can marry the half white half ay-rab if she wants

But the kids will NOT BE SOMALI

rather QUADROONS OR MULATOS

Not somalis.

So if she's into leaving her culture.

go for it. we don't need selloutsin our genepool

she can have fun being called nigger and abed in 2 differnt languages and cultures of her husband

This may not be applicable to the two in question as in Islam there is no nationalism, ethno-centrism, etc. While some may choose to remain with their own people, others may not and apparently these two have chosen not to. Euphoriia touched on this in a rather eloquent way, "We are Muslims this body of ours and so called race will not be with us when we die, everything is temporary including our so called race, ethnicity, tribes etc.."

[Titanium]

Futhermore they were Jahils at the time and the girl become practising so realised what she was doing was wrong thus stopped talking to him, but because they have feelings for each other that they cannot just ignore, they want to get married.

Thank you for clarifying that, I missed this vital detail and judged too harshly initially.

Anyway we live in a westernised country where boys and girls talk. There is no such thing as the father putting an end to a problem

You are correct and this is why I am returning to Afghanistan in 1 year and 8 months from now. Neither I nor my wife can ethically raise our daughter in the west beyond age 5. We considered home schooling and keeping her confined to the house but eventually it would get to a point where it would be virtually cruel to have a child in a country where they are forbidden from participating in almost everything and they basically just exist in a room, in a house with closely monitered internet access and no television or communication with the outside. Apparently many serious orthodox Christians here have a similar set up. But I still have a house in Musa Qala, so it just seems the wiser solution.

ALSO, the father has no right to refuse you. It is not Islamic what he is doing. If you a good practicing Muslim, he can't refuse you to his daughter.

As a talib e ilm, I should issue a response based in solely in Islam and not in Pashtun tribalism... I note that Titanium's statement is correct. According to the respected Hanafi fuquha (and all four Madhabs), the wali must have Islamically relevant reasons to deny the marriage. Infact and this may shock you, in Hanafi fiqh, we maintain the view that the wali is not necessarily rukn or essential for the marriage. Rather, it is a prerequisite (shart). What this means in Hanafi fiqh is that when a young lady who has reached the age of full-maturity who is allowed to execute her own legal contracts (around 20 years old in most societies) without the permission of a wali, when she executes the marriage without the agreement of her marriage guardian, such a woman's marriage is deemed valid. Nevertheless, she is considered sinful for not fulfilling the prerequisite of having a guardian initiate the contract. (She must answer to Allah for that.) Such a woman's marriage will nonetheless, be acknowledged as being valid. As for the other 3 madhabs, the marriage would have to be annulled and the two parties would have to be remarried with all the appropriate conditions fulfilled.

Does it have to be the father to initiate the contract? Is he the only male relative allowed?

Here is an article on eloping in Somalia: http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-radicals- ... 58149.html

Somalis practice this.

[zamindawari]

Does it have to be the father to initiate the contract? Is he the only male relative allowed?

In Hanafi fiqh, either party may initiate the contract. No, according to Hanafi jurisprudence, the father is not the only male relative allowed to fulfill the position but he is the first chosen if he is available and fulfills the requirements (being of sound mind). The breakdown is as follows - If the father is alive and of sound mind then the father is always the wali. However, if this condition is not met then the next acceptable wali would be any male relative of the immediate household who is of sound mind and mental maturity (of age to engage in legally binding contracts), this could be a brother or any relative that lives within the household. If there is no one that fits any of this criteria then any male relative of the extended family (outside the immediate household) who is of sound mind and mental maturity. If in some bizarre case that I personally can't imagine, there are NO male relatives of sound mind and mental maturity inside or outside the household then the next procedure is to contact a qualified qazi (judge). The qazi is authorized to appoint a wali to the girl for the purpose of marriage or the qazi may himself act as a wali in the nikah proceedings. (Note that this situation where a qazi is required is almost certain to never occur.)

[DANGIRL]

You can still be MUSLIM and the father has every right to refuse you his daughter.

No means no, now move the fuck on.

[DANGIRL]

The only way I don't approve a guy is if he is not Muslim and he is a bad person. Other than that, I will accept. I don't care if he is Chinese or Native Indian.

That father's intolerance shouldn't be the reason why two happily loving people can't marry. He shouldn't win.

In Islam, the father cannot refuse for nonsense reasons. He should follow the religion more than the father. He has God's approval. That is all he needs. If the girl wants to go ahead with it, they should do it. Nothing should stop them.

Why are you encouraging this man to bring up a family?