Somalia's ultimate civil war will b abt this >>>>

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Yes, but our human capital hovers around nil.

I estimate that about a third of Somalis are clinically insane, while the rest are hopelessly ignorant and refuse to acknowledge anything outside of their qabiil-centric worldview.

The odds of Somalis creating an industrialized society without massive injections of cash via natural resources are slim to none. The problem is that if we do develop our resources without the right institutions in place, we'll make Nigeria look like a paradise.

Every nation/country starts off with a lazy ignorant populace. Do you think massive amounts of cash from oil/gas in the hands of "clinically insane" and "hopelessly ignorant" people will help the case. We need to stop looking for the magical elixir that fixes all our problems. You need to work hard to solve issues, they don't go away even if you throw lot's of money at it.

[Tanker]

To be honest, the more I study history, the more I come to the conclusion that environment and education plays an even larger part than biology. A good example would be the contrast between Pax Romana and the Dark Ages in Europe. The ethnic stock of Europe didn't really change, what changed was the culture and the ethos. The Greco-Roman culture revered order, reason, and unity. Rome had great technology as well, but the main buttress of Roman power was it's discipline and unity. Now when the western empire collapsed, the people were still there, but why did most of the continent abandon it's cities and go back to living in mud huts? Did Europeans biologically degenerate? Did their innate intelligence fall for some reason? I think the answer is no. The real reason is due to the decline of Roman high culture and ethos. This decline was caused by excessive wealth and power,thus leading to corruption. Power corrupts all people regardless of race. So there you have it, the same people that built roads across an entire continent and mighty cities that supported millions could also live in mud huts and fight incessant tribal wars for a thousand years.

[OjOO]

Abid. ismail, maybe is one of those clinically insane sitting on comfort of his western handout home and log in since 2007 in somaal net. giving empty advice, even denying his heritage from qoti arabsio, waaqooy .

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

You can't compare the classical Greeks of Pericles age to the one that came after. And you can't compare the Rome of Augustus to that of the later centuries. The cultures were in decline due to foreign admixture, corruption, civil war and wealth. By the dark ages, the greeks and the romans no longer had anything to due with the illustrious predecessors.

[Tanker]

what changed was the culture and the ethos

[Based]

Yes, but our human capital hovers around nil.

I estimate that about a third of Somalis are clinically insane, while the rest are hopelessly ignorant and refuse to acknowledge anything outside of their qabiil-centric worldview.

The odds of Somalis creating an industrialized society without massive injections of cash via natural resources are slim to none. The problem is that if we do develop our resources without the right institutions in place, we'll make Nigeria look like a paradise.

Every nation/country starts off with a lazy ignorant populace. Do you think massive amounts of cash from oil/gas in the hands of "clinically insane" and "hopelessly ignorant" people will help the case. We need to stop looking for the magical elixir that fixes all our problems. You need to work hard to solve issues, they don't go away even if you throw lot's of money at it.

How exactly can the government do anything without any sort of revenue? Our GDP is miniscule, we depend entirely on remittances and foreign aid, and we have to rebuild a society ravaged by 20+ years of civil war. Every country has certain factor endowments that enable them to develop or at least put them on a path to development. In our case, we have very limited human capital, limited arable land, and a significant portion of our population without any form of employment, schooling, or training for the better part of a quarter century. The idea that we can become an East African "tiger" without developing and exploiting our resources presupposes a functioning government that can actually implement any economic/policy reforms that encourage growth/trade outside of resources, which presupposes a government with the funds to implement those policies, bringing us full circle to how the hell we're gonna get the money for all this.

I'm not saying we shouldn't diversify and instead become a nation beholden to the whims of the international resource markets, but it is imperative that we do exploit the few resources actually available to us in order to earn the revenue necessary for the government to stabilize the country. Only then can we create the necessary institutions for growth, invest in our human capital, and develop a diverse economy

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I wrote a long response to your post but deleted the tab by accident. I can't be bothered rewriting it but what I'll say is this; Somalia's current GDP (several Billion dollars) is more than sufficient to provide extensive education and training programmes. It will also enough to provide cheap healthcare and clinics around the country. Infrastructure however is costly and requires expertise. The expertise would come from the educated and trained population and the funds would come from high taxes on foreign imports as well the billions Somalia receives in AID. Once you have the rudimentary blocks of development such as highways, proper roads, rail and a few harbours and ports, not to mention a trained and educated population, that's when you can start to make big developmental plans and invest in industries and manufacture. And that is when you need the big money, such as revenue from alleged oil and gas reserves. That is when you can make deals with foreigners on a level playing field. Until then, it'll be like Somalia trying to run on crutches and a plaster cast.

And BTW it is possible for a country with no resources, destroyed infrastructure and an untrained population to achieve economic growth - just look at post-war South Korea, Vietnam, and even Germany to some extent.

[Based]

Somalia's GDP is around $5 billion USD. It is far from sufficient for even providing the basic services of government, let alone any ambitious national projects. Our exclusive and unenviable position as the world's only failed state makes Somalia's case almost incomparable to any other nation, with entire generations out of the workforce/education and dependent on either remittances or the meager resources available. Somalia's weak government is unable to provide any sort of services, primarily because of a lack of security, political cohesion, and a serious lack of funds. We cannot even be compared to the rest of the developing world, who despite having functioning governments are still unable to industrialize and are wholly dependent on aid for their survival.

Without a plan similar to the post-war Marshall Plan of Europe, the billions given to South Korea/Taiwan, and the reconstruction of the Japanese economy, Somalia's economic future without developing an initially resource-based economy is bleak. A government with literally millions of unemployed and unskilled citizens attempting to rebuild a society without a stable source of revenue is doomed from the beginning. Even if we were to miraculously return to the modest pre-war level, exploiting the few resources we do have are crucial to the development of the type of industrialized society you are envisioning. Taxing foreign imports is not a feasible solution to the revenue problem that the government will always face, nor do I find falling in the aid trap many of our fellow developing nations find themselves in very appealing. There is a reason Angola has one of the fastest growing economies in the world, not to mention the ME's remarkable transformation over such a relatively short period of time. It is imperative for every country to work with what they're endowed with, in this case a wealth of natural resources.

I get the feeling that you're worried about becoming dependent on a relatively volatile sector and neglecting other industries (e.g. UAE, Saudi Arabia) and/or being exploited by MNCs (e.g. Nigeria) while the country is in a relatively weak bargaining position. I am also wary about the very real possibility of Somalia becoming the latest example of a resource cursed nation, but that is entirely dependent on the government's ability to make use of this new revenue stream and implement policies to avoid the pitfalls many other resource rich nations have fallen into. While I am not filled with confidence about Somalia's current governmental structure and their ability to adequately manage billions of dollars , I think it's preferable to another couple of decades of grinding poverty. Our task is to ensure our government establishes the institutions necessary for growth, while creating the framework for a free market society where our natural entrepreneurial spirit can be expressed freely in the form of competitive industries alongside our resource sectors.

[hargaysaay]

Bread and circuses, my friend.

While your average Somali spends his free time chewing khaat and debating qabiilitics (can't really call it politics), the average American watches the NFL and eats until he gets a coronary.

Get every kid in school, create industries to end the rampant unemployment that creates the large pool of disaffected young militiamen we have running around, and create some sort of distraction from politics (sports, t.v., etc.), and you have a perfect recipe for the political apathy we so desperately need. Couple that with a manufactured existential threat, and the mob is yours.

Well put , improving living standards should be the goal . that Bogeyman might not be Necessary we really don't need enemies external or internal .

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Somalia's GDP is around $5 billion USD. It is far from sufficient for even providing the basic services of government, let alone any ambitious national projects. Our exclusive and unenviable position as the world's only failed state makes Somalia's case almost incomparable to any other nation, with entire generations out of the workforce/education and dependent on either remittances or the meager resources available. Somalia's weak government is unable to provide any sort of services, primarily because of a lack of security, political cohesion, and a serious lack of funds. We cannot even be compared to the rest of the developing world, who despite having functioning governments are still unable to industrialize and are wholly dependent on aid for their survival.

Without a plan similar to the post-war Marshall Plan of Europe, the billions given to South Korea/Taiwan, and the reconstruction of the Japanese economy, Somalia's economic future without developing an initially resource-based economy is bleak. A government with literally millions of unemployed and unskilled citizens attempting to rebuild a society without a stable source of revenue is doomed from the beginning. Even if we were to miraculously return to the modest pre-war level, exploiting the few resources we do have are crucial to the development of the type of industrialized society you are envisioning. Taxing foreign imports is not a feasible solution to the revenue problem that the government will always face, nor do I find falling in the aid trap many of our fellow developing nations find themselves in very appealing. There is a reason Angola has one of the fastest growing economies in the world, not to mention the ME's remarkable transformation over such a relatively short period of time. It is imperative for every country to work with what they're endowed with, in this case a wealth of natural resources.

I get the feeling that you're worried about becoming dependent on a relatively volatile sector and neglecting other industries (e.g. UAE, Saudi Arabia) and/or being exploited by MNCs (e.g. Nigeria) while the country is in a relatively weak bargaining position. I am also wary about the very real possibility of Somalia becoming the latest example of a resource cursed nation, but that is entirely dependent on the government's ability to make use of this new revenue stream and implement policies to avoid the pitfalls many other resource rich nations have fallen into. While I am not filled with confidence about Somalia's current governmental structure and their ability to adequately manage billions of dollars , I think it's preferable to another couple of decades of grinding poverty. Our task is to ensure our government establishes the institutions necessary for growth, while creating the framework for a free market society where our natural entrepreneurial spirit can be expressed freely in the form of competitive industries alongside our resource sectors.

$5 billion is an out of date estimate, the real figure higher. But the point is still the same, it is more than enough to meet Somalia's education and training expenditure, especially since we have a relatively low population. The focus has to be put on Primary and Secondary education as well as vocational colleges. Building useless universities is a waste of resources and not effective at all in the long-term.

I did not say no to exploiting natural resources, I said that Somalia is not ready at the moment for it. And there are no 'Free-market' economies with high growth. You need protectionism and high import tariffs. Why would high taxes on imports be a bad thing? SL already produces many of the goods it used to purchase from the Gulf Arabs like Detergent, cosmetics, soap, cooking oils, soft-drinks, fuel oil, fresh-milk etc. And this is without any industry at all, especially chemical which is required for most of those products I mentioned. These are all private ventures by SL citizens, the government has nothing to do with these, so you can imagine what we could do if the Government decided to step up to the plate - let alone the Somalia government which has had access to AID that other countries can only dream of.

[OjOO]

Based should be the first east africa president , sharp and logical thinking is what;s needed not empty word.

[Arabman]

Based should be the first east africa president , sharp and logical thinking is what;s needed not empty word.

Based is too emotional; he cannot handle the job.