Syrian rebels : We Will Not allow Democracy video

[Arabman]

Funny thing is that all of you live in Democratic nations, now go back to your caves.

Dahl and Grant's people come from Europe. They took by force the indigenous people's lands, so it isn't theirs. Only the indigenous people have the right to tell Somalis to go back to their country.

[James Dahl]

Democracy literally means rule by the people. Demos (the people) kratos (hold power). In essence this translates as the general public chooses their leader.

Alternative systems are Aristos (the best) kratos (hold power) or Aristocracy, the rule of the "best". Examples of aristocracy include medieval Poland (where the nobility elected the king), the Roman republic (where the senatorial class elected the consuls) the Islamic Republic of Iran (where the Council of Experts selects the Supreme Ruler) and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (where the Supreme Soviet of party leaders selected the General Secretary). This system is more common than one might think. The Catholic Pope is essentially selected aristocratically, with the College of Cardinals.

Finally there is a Monos kratos, a Monarchy, where one person chooses the leader. Officially there are only a handful of monarchies in the world. Unofficially there are a ton of monarchies, where a single individual chooses their successor. Cuba, North Korea, Equatorial Guinea etc.

What you folks are complaining about is not democracy but rather liberalism, which is an ideology prominent in the west but less popular in the east. Democracy is not an ideology, it is a system of succession. Not every democracy has been liberal, indeed Adolph Hitler came to power democratically.

[jalaaludin5]

Funny thing is that all of you live in Democratic nations, now go back to your caves.
Islamic state will thrive under the Sufis/Sunnis and not radical Salafis

Afkaaga caano lagu qabay!

Al-shabaab and al-qaeda rule is no way to rule muslims.

[GalliumerianSlayer]

Funny thing is that all of you live in Democratic nations, now go back to your caves.
Islamic state will thrive under the Sufis/Sunnis and not radical Salafis

Afkaaga caano lagu qabay!

Al-shabaab and al-qaeda rule is no way to rule muslims.

I don't understand why you can shower me with milk?

[jalaaludin5]

showering with milk is haram. hence..afkaaga lagu qabay.

[Grant]

Funny thing is that all of you live in Democratic nations, now go back to your caves.

Dahl and Grant's people come from Europe. They took by force the indigenous people's lands, so it isn't theirs. Only the indigenous people have the right to tell Somalis to go back to their country.

Arabman,

Conquest is conquest...... Does your very strange argument mean that Muslims should vacate North Africa and the Indian subcontinent?

The Native Americans:

http://usa.usembassy.de/society-natives.htm

The American Indians numbered about 1.5 M when Columbus landed on San Salvador. Some tribes, such as the Mandan, were later exterminated by disease, and as a total population they declined to a low of about 350,000 in 1920. But today they number about 4.5 M, and only about a third live on reservations. While the bulk of my personal family line is Anglo/German, I have half-Cherokee cousins, and that is more common in America than not. African Americans tend not to be pure anything, most having 20-40% White or Native American DNA. The Director of the Native American Health Center here in Oakland says all Oakland Blacks have Indian blood and he accepts them all as patients. Most Native Americans are now integrated into American society. All American Indian tribes have had full US citizenship since 1924.

An additional issue here is the definition of "indigenous". The Native Americans did not evolve on this continent. They are fully modern humans that came either from Asia or Europe and they mixed once they got here.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... -genetics/

"Nearly one-third of Native American genes come from west Eurasian people linked to the Middle East and Europe, rather than entirely from East Asians as previously thought, according to a newly sequenced genome."

http://archaeology.about.com/od/skthrou ... _clovi.htm

"Bradley and Stanford argue that at the time of the Last Glacial Maximum, ca 25,000-15,000 radiocarbon years ago, the Iberian peninsula of Europe became a steppe-tundra, forcing Solutrean populations to the coasts. Maritime hunters then traveled northward along the ice margin up the European coast and around the North Atlantic Sea. They point out that the perennial Arctic ice at the time would have formed an ice bridge connecting Europe and North America. Ice margins have intense biological productivity, and would have provided a major food source."

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Solutrean_hypothesis

" MtDNA Haplogroup X

The idea is also supported by mitochondrial DNA analysis insofar as the fact that some members of some native North American tribes share a common yet distant maternal ancestry with some present-day individuals in Europe identified by mtDNA Haplogroup X. Unlike other Native American mtDNA Haplogroups A, B, C and D, Haplogroup X is not common in Northeastern Asia or Siberia (although occurence of Haplogroup X2 of more recent origin has been identified in the Altai Republic). The New World haplogroup X DNA (now called subgroup X2a) is as different from any of the Old World X2 lineages as they are from each other, indicating a very ancient origin. Although haplogroup X occurs only at a frequency of about 3% for the total current indigenous population of the Americas, it is a major haplogroup in northeastern North America, where among the Algonquian peoples it comprises up to 25% of mtDNA types."

[Arabman]

Democracy literally means rule by the people.

Com'on, no ordinary people rule in the West. Only the elites, wealthy, career politicians, those from generations of politicians (Bush, Kennedy, etc), those supported by lobbyists, interest groups, corporations, etc--get into office. Ordinary people are taxed, fined, jailed, humiliated, etc. Their votes mean nothing. For instance, millions of them may protest against invading/occupying a Muslim country, but it changes nothing. No, ordinary people don't rule anything.

[waayeel101]

what we need is "al-shourah" that's all.

[James Dahl]

Democracy literally means rule by the people.

Com'on, no ordinary people rule in the West. Only the elites, wealthy, career politicians, those from generations of politicians (Bush, Kennedy, etc), those supported by lobbyists, interest groups, corporations, etc--get into office. Ordinary people are taxed, fined, jailed, humiliated, etc. Their votes mean nothing. For instance, millions of them may protest against invading/occupying a Muslim country, but it changes nothing. No, ordinary people don't rule anything.

what we need is "al-shourah" that's all.

Indeed, every town shall select a man who they deem the most pious, wise and sensible man in the entire community and this Shura Council will rule the land.

Guess what, that's called democracy, because the populace is deciding on their leaders.

This will actually lead to the same problems America has, because as soon as it matters who the towns select, businesses and interest groups will interfere in the process, bankroll candidates for the Shura, spend money to advertise for this candidate or that candidate. Islamic law is no defense, it isn't xaram to donate unlimited campaign contributions.

[gurey25]

What you folks are complaining about is not democracy but rather liberalism, which is an ideology prominent in the west but less popular in the east. Democracy is not an ideology, it is a system of succession. Not every democracy has been liberal, indeed Adolph Hitler came to power democratically.

then tell me why they are always talkinga bout spreading democracy? making the world safe for democracy and other bullshit?.
democracy is synonymous with liberalism and secularism both with which islam is at odds with.
This is why hamas's democratic victory was not respected.

[eyes-only]

Don't they have to be in a position to govern to be discussing what system of governance?! Since when did they defeat the regime there?

[Grant]

Gurey,

Democracy is rule by the will of the people. Secularism and Liberalism are available options, but the people can theoretically have whatever they want.

The Rashidun Khalifs were all elected. Turkey and Malaysia are both considered flawed democracies. Here is the philosophical discussion in Wiki on "Islamic democracy". Turkey is secular in theory but largely Muslim in practice. Malaysia has religious freedom, but it's national laws are constitutionally based in Shariah generally and totally as far as Muslim's are concerned. In both countries the executive position is elective and time- limited. Both countries have an elected parliament and frequent (3-5 year) elections. Since a constitutional crisis in 1988, the Malaysian Parliament now controls even the courts.

Didn't you tell me once that Malaysia was the best example of a functioning Islamic community?

ISLAMIC DEMOCRACY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_democracy

The early Islamic philosopher, Al-Farabi (c. 872-950), in one of his most notable works Al-Madina al-Fadila, theorized an ideal Islamic state which he compared to Plato's The Republic.[20] Al-Farabi departed from the Platonic view in that he regarded the ideal state to be ruled by the prophet, instead of the philosopher king envisaged by Plato. Al-Farabi argued that the ideal state was the city-state of Medina when it was governed by Muhammad, as its head of state, as he was in direct communion with God whose law was revealed to him. In the absence of the prophet, Al-Farabi considered democracy as the closest to the ideal state, regarding the republican order of the Rashidun Caliphate as an example within early Muslim history. However, he also maintained that it was from democracy that imperfect states emerged, noting how the republican order of the early Islamic Caliphate of the Rashidun caliphs was later replaced by a form of government resembling a monarchy under the Umayyad and Abbasid dynasties.[21]

A thousand years later, the modern Islamic philosopher, Muhammad Iqbal, also viewed the early Islamic Caliphate as being compatible with democracy. He "welcomed the formation of popularly elected legislative assemblies" in the Muslim world as a "return to the original purity of Islam." He argued that Islam had the "gems of an economic and democratic organization of society", but that this growth was stunted by the monarchist rule of Umayyad Caliphate, which established the Caliphate as a great Islamic empire but led to political Islamic ideals being "repaganized" and the early Muslims losing sight of the "most important potentialities of their faith."[22]

Another internationally acclaimed Muslim scholar and thinker Muhammad Asad viewed Democracy as perfectly compatible with Islam. In his book The Principles of State and Government in Islam, he notes: "Viewed from this historical perspective, 'democracy' as conceived in the modern West is infinitely nearer to the Islamic than to the ancient Greek concept of liberty; for Islam maintains that all human beings are socially equal and must, therefore, be given the same opportunities for development and self-expression. On the other hand, Islam makes it incumbent upon Muslims to subordinate their decisions to the guidance of the Divine Law revealed in the Qur'ãn and exemplified by the Prophet: an obligation which imposes definite limits on the community's right to legislate and denies to the 'will of the people' that attribute of sovereignty which forms so integral a part of the Western concept of democracy."[23]

[Colonel]

Algeria, Gaza, Tunisia, Egypt. All democratic victories, all toppled by coups supported by the west. Hamas' victory wasn't even recognised

End thread.

[James Dahl]

What you folks are complaining about is not democracy but rather liberalism, which is an ideology prominent in the west but less popular in the east. Democracy is not an ideology, it is a system of succession. Not every democracy has been liberal, indeed Adolph Hitler came to power democratically.

then tell me why they are always talkinga bout spreading democracy? making the world safe for democracy and other bullshit?.
democracy is synonymous with liberalism and secularism both with which islam is at odds with.
This is why hamas's democratic victory was not respected.

What are you doing listening to the USA? The USA has a terrible record, they have always preferred compliant dictators over a populace that is opposed to their economic or geopolitical interests.
Liberalism by the way is not to blame for the general policy of the United States of America bombing people for having views they disagree with, that is actually anathema to liberalism, which is about tolerance and acceptance of other people's opinions and points of view. "Live and let live" is the motto of the Liberalism ideology, liberalism is about non-interference in people's lives, even if they are living lifestyles or hold points of view that they personally disagree with. This is why in the USA for instance, if a Muslim man is defending his right for his will and testament to be carried out according to Shariah law in some ass-backward state that banned anything to do with Shariah, it will be a liberal (who personally disagrees with Shariah) who is defending him.

The reason why war-hawks talk about democracy and liberalism to justify their actions in attacking some country on the other side of the world is because they are trying to justify it. They know liberals won't like attacking people for no good reason (liberals only like self-defense as an excuse to go to war), so that is why the rhetoric about freedom and civil rights and the poor persecuted whoever-it-is and that their bombing campaign is "downright humanitarian". The American populace, due to their own origins, also favor a "death to tyrants" mentality and re-packaging your war as a "war for democracy" makes it more popular with all sections of the American populace (though liberals will be skeptical about aggressive war even if they think it's probably for a "good cause").

The sad reality is that the neocon's justifications have had the terrible consequence of associating liberalism with neoconservativism. This is the most terrible thing I have ever seen. The millions of liberals who marched against the invasion of Iraq, against all the different bombing campaigns and etc. Thanks to what republican assholes said on television to try and make their wars popular with liberals, you now hold those liberals, the very people who tried to stop it, responsible.

If that isn't a tragedy I don't know what is.

As far as I know, there has only been one Liberal US president in modern times, Jimmy Carter.

Liberals come in two flavors in America. Liberals who favor socialist economic theories are "Progressives" and liberals who favor individualist economic theories are "Libertarians". As a non-American, those are basically the only two groups you can trust to not come after you if America wants something from you.

[ZubeirAwal]

Democracy is just a cute word for economical slavery and the process of raising the status of the rich to become richer, and the poor to become poorer.

Other than that, enforcing democracy upon a muslim nation is like trying to mix oil with water, it doesn't work.