SomaliNet Forums

Lamgoodle wrote:Jalaludiin,
What is our disagreement?

Lamgoodle wrote:There is no downside. They will have the opportunity to select a non-somali man or stay unmarried; are you ok with that? I am

Jalaludiin,

If they can't find an educated and white collar somali, what should they do? Are you a somali centric? You want them to marry losers?

Maybe he thinks Somali wasters are entitled to educated Somali women.
PS most families would prefer their daughters marry a less achieving Somali rather than a high achieving non Somali.

original dervish wrote:Maybe he thinks Somali wasters are entitled to educated Somali women.
PS most families would prefer their daughters marry a less achieving Somali rather than a high achieving non Somali.

Yes saaxib and that is the meal of the matter; pressure to marry a less achieving somali instead of a non-somali.

Lamgoodle wrote:If they can't find an educated and white collar somali, what should they do? Are you a somali centric? You want them to marry losers?

Do you know of anyone who wish their sister to marry a loser? Whats this loser talk you?

And before you said...

Lamgoodle wrote:They will have the opportunity to select a non-somali man or stay unmarried;

Somali women are Muslim so obviously that doesn't mean anything to you because islam is not even relevant as far your discussion is concerned.
I honnestly do not think that you can easily dissmis religion in regards to the the topic.

Our parents generation have a much greater emotional attachment to the old country.
For many second and third generation Somalis, Somalia is nothing more than a place to visit during the holidays.
The Islamic identity is seen as far more cohesive.

original dervish wrote:Our parents generation have a much greater emotional attachment to the old country.
For many second and third generation Somalis, Somalia is nothing more than a place to visit during the holidays.
The Islamic identity is seen as far more cohesive.

That's in every ethnic group, though I can criticise you one point. 2/3 generations has seem to be getting more religious than the first generations of immigrants, almost in all ethnic groups. Religion is something which they can use to preserve their identity ( Look at Afro-Caribbeans or Black Africans) - Or these Polish immigrants that have just arrived 10 years ago. Though I do agree on the status of the Motherland, it's simply seen as a holiday while first generation Somali's still have that attachment, this could be due to the fact that most First generation Somali's emigrated not due to economic reasons like other ethnic groups ( Italians, Germanys , etc...) but to do conflict so in the end they see themselves returning. Those who have emigrated for economic reasons, have to some extent integrated and assimilated into whatever country they have migrated to.

Btw to in response to Lamgoodle, it in all in a way comes from a lack of male socialisation aswell to a small extent, lack of a male role model prompts Somali boys to go join gangs/subcultures or their peers to be 'socialised' thus dropping out of college/6th form or never attending to uni. Never the less it's a good thing that our Somali women are getting educated

Legendary,

Somali males socialise ( homo-socialisation is a male trait irrespective of ethnicity) but their socialisation is a race to the bottom; when loser meet they shun education. I will blame parenting, the lack of a learning environment at home as OD wrote and more importantly a gap in language between parents and children.

And, of course we cannot disregard children/woman .


Jalaludiin; so, what shall we do in order to ensure that our boys get an education?

I will treat my future wife like the queen she is Somali women are diamonds

Am all for good education and empowering our women so they can be succesfull in life.
what to do about our boys in order to give them a good education? That's a good question and obviously you are talking about in the diaspora since that's not a problem back home because the challenge is to ensure that girls have access to education. I haven't got the answer. a stable environment? Good roll models other than hiphop artist and marfishfabilous?

Don't get me wrong i am not gonna pretend that i have the solution to the problem, but i cannot also ignore the fact that all your topics though positive and informative you always seem to dismiss and overlook the importance religion play in our lives. Its not only offensive but borderline blasphamous.

in la is fahmo waa mihiim
adigana si fiican baan ku fahmay but sadly i can't say i agree.

jalaaludin5 wrote:Am all for good education and empowering our women so they can be succesfull in life.
what to do about our boys in order to give them a good education? That's a good question and obviously you are talking about in the diaspora since that's not a problem back home because the challenge is to ensure that girls have access to education. I haven't got the answer. a stable environment? Good roll models other than hiphop artist and marfishfabilous?

Don't get me wrong i am not gonna pretend that i have the solution to the problem, but i cannot also ignore the fact that all your topics though positive and informative you always seem to dismiss and overlook the importance religion play in our lives. Its not only offensive but borderline blasphamous.

in la is fahmo waa mihiim
adigana si fiican baan ku fahmay but sadly i can't say i agree.

Fair enough.

From my perspective, religion is not an issue that should be brought into every conversation. It is an exogenous variable. The majority of Somalis are/were muslims; we have had people of other faiths. We lived side by side; the muslims, christians, atheists, animists and others.

Admittedly, I am against Wahabism , Salafism and other isms that have invaded our once beloved muslim nation. I have during my tenure on Somalinet introduced topics on the dangers of wahabism and other sects. In my opinion, Islam has been influenced by local cultures which many of our people- including you- have embraced without much thought. You have been seduced by the rhetoric of brotherhood which is an elusive concept. These sects have cultural underpinnings that have an ounce of dogma but tonnes of culture.

Politically, I favour a secular state. I don’t see that as incompatible with my faith. I yearn for a Somalia that is democratic, egalitarian and welcoming to every Somali irrespective of faith and ideology.

Again, I don't know how this topic has anything to do with religion.

Lamgoodle wrote: In my opinion, Islam has been influenced by local cultures which many of our people- including you- have embraced without much thought. You have been seduced by the rhetoric of brotherhood which is an elusive concept.

Opinion i can understand but no need for insults.

The reason why religion comes in to it is because you are talking about Somali women and their future and i do not believe religion, (in this case ISLAM) can be dismissed.

original dervish wrote:Yes...that's true.....but still I can only go on my own experiences.

Whatever the imbalance....there is a crisis in the education of Somali children (UK).
Far too many are failing to achieve the minimum standards.
What is it in Somali homes that fails to provide an environment conducive to academic success?

Very simple. Somali parents don't help their kids at home, sofaha uun bey ka qayliyaan....' War orod o homework kaaga dhigo' 'Naa barito miyaadan imtixaan leehayn? orod o akhriso television ka kac'. Indians on the other hand sit with their children, go over what they studied in school and make sure they complete their homework. Really that is all it takes to prosper in school...having aabo iyo hooyo that sit with their kids to reinforce what you've studied in school for that day.

jalaaludin5 wrote:

Lamgoodle wrote: In my opinion, Islam has been influenced by local cultures which many of our people- including you- have embraced without much thought. You have been seduced by the rhetoric of brotherhood which is an elusive concept.

Opinion i can understand but no need for insults.

The reason why religion comes in to it is because you are talking about Somali women and their future and i do not believe religion, (in this case ISLAM) can be dismissed.

Insults?

Non-somalis is not the same as non-muslim. Religion can be dismissed and should not be taken into consideration when discussing every matter.

Let us assume that religion is an issue; how will that impact gender imbalances resulting from education?

Horta What is education?