POLL: Should Somalia adopt the Federal system?

[LightAtNight]

ximan xaare, so you're a nationalistic now?

He is certainly more nationalistic than you, so lets not pretend shall we

Mind you telling me your old nick?

I dont know what your talking about

[garoweboy]

Ximan xaare
You hail from getto you have no right to badmouth Galkacyo. Kalab 2 faced ah baad tahay f your nationalism Niic Niic.

[LightAtNight]

Waryaa Garowe boy..... adiga nac nacda iskadaaf...... dabaco yehe

[Estarix]

A problem requires a solution. Somalis have deep divisions that cannot just be ignored. Last time it was ignored the country went toast. So there has to be a solution and ofcourse change comes with that. If the consequence is a 21st century Berlin wall in somalia then it should be stuck to. There is another solution though, the major clans in the country can all go their merry ways but i dont think thats an option somalis are willing to take.

You have admitted that Somalis have deep divisions. Therefore how can federalism be a solution for them? If anything it will cause more turmoil and problem. Somalis need a unified system to bring a full-functioning state.

How is allowing major clans to go their merry ways a solution? How is that going to bring a nationhood? You sound really dumb


p.s. This thread was for nationalistic people, from your comments you don't seem like a nationalistic person so I won't judge you.

One is micro management, fair representation, minimal interference in regional state by a larger and potentially non - representative entity.
Somali culture is so that individual somalis represent their clan and serve their clans interests. This was the case in the civil government and conflict brew because clans believed they were sidelined and targeted. A state is nothing but a platform used to balance and control politicians from different clans.
The state can be abused by selective clans through domination of one and marginalization and oppression of others. This can be through politicians, civilians or economy (unfair share given).
politicians from one clan be hostile to state for these reasons causing a civil war potentially.
Somali civil war began when politicians to some extent representing their clans by declared against the state; abandonment lead to the collapse of the state.
Federalism is a way to control these divisions; each state receives proportional representation and control its regions, each state receives proportionate money and resources which can then be locally used by state. There are other examples but i will stop here.
When discussing these topics you need to avoid for your bias and remove the nationalistic mantra; i am a realist.

[AbdiJohnson]

Federations are also in homogenous countries. This kind of governance makes sure people far from the center have access to govt services and dont face political discrimination. Also, local people know what they need. In centralism, some Mogadishu guy will have access to everything whereas some guy from Xudur or whatever village in the middle of no where will have limited to no access. Somalis are nomads. They need a regional govt that can reach them. Stop being selfish. Like the Mogadishu govt cares about anyone past their suburbs.

Hilaac, dont guess my clan.

As for the "unrealistic" nonsense, whatever. They better get along. From Bari to Galgaduud, they are the same desert people. Jubbas and Shabelles are the same farming people. Bay/Bakool/Gedo/Hiiraan live in the same environment

I am,

Abdi "You learn to value federalism when you live under one" Johnson

[XimanJaale]

One is micro management, fair representation, minimal interference in regional state by a larger and potentially non - representative entity.
Somali culture is so that individual somalis represent their clan and serve their clans interests. This was the case in the civil government and conflict brew because clans believed they were sidelined and targeted. A state is nothing but a platform used to balance and control politicians from different clans.
The state can be abused by selective clans through domination of one and marginalization and oppression of others. This can be through politicians, civilians or economy (unfair share given).
politicians from one clan be hostile to state for these reasons causing a civil war potentially.
Somali civil war began when politicians to some extent representing their clans by declared against the state; abandonment lead to the collapse of the state.
Federalism is a way to control these divisions; each state receives proportional representation and control its regions, each state receives proportionate money and resources which can then be locally used by state. There are other examples but i will stop here.

No Federalism cannot control the division of the Somali people and if anything it will burn more fuel to the existing problem.

I know the advantages and disadvantages of the Federal system, no need to give me example. But my main question is how can you proof that this system is feasible for the Somali people?

Somalia needs a centralism but with more authority in the 18 regions of Somalia. We need to establish better regional administrations in the 18 regions of the country and elect MP's through regions and not through tribe.

In order for Somalia to survive we need to get rid off anything that can bring back tribalism, and federalism is one component that brings tribalism.

[LightAtNight]

If the main concern of the people is sharing of resources.... why cant we come up with another mechanism where people in the peripheries get access to basic services such as health and education without coming to the center (mog) why does it have to be federalism? Id prefer maybe decentralization

[XimanJaale]

Federations are also in homogenous countries. This kind of governance makes sure people far from the center have access to govt services and dont face political discrimination. Also, local people know what they need. In centralism, some Mogadishu guy will have access to everything whereas some guy from Xudur or whatever village in the middle of no where will have limited to no access. Somalis are nomads. They need a regional govt that can reach them. Stop being selfish. Like the Mogadishu govt cares about anyone past their suburbs.


As for the "unrealistic" nonsense, whatever. They better get along. From Bari to Galgaduud, they are the same desert people. Jubbas and Shabelles are the same farming people. Bay/Bakool/Gedo/Hiiraan live in the same environment

I am,

Abdi "You learn to value federalism when you live under one" Johnson

Name me homogenous countries with federal system.

Who said centralism is only limited to the capital city? The only reason why the regions had lack of services before the war was due to poor economy. You do know that centralism does not mean the government only controls Mogadishu. The central government puts regional administration in place where these administration do the work.

I think you have poor knowledge of what a central government means.

[StormShadow]

Name me homogenous countries with federal system.

Mexico,Germany, United Arab Emirates and Switzerland

[Estarix]

Lets deal with reality today. Your propositioning some decentralised version where that can obviously carry risks because somalis will fight for the top seat such as presidency and similar positions. Secondly somalis mostly have loyalty towards their clan, how will a central government deal with each major clan - the traditional and political elements. There should be representation.

[AbdiJohnson]

Australia, Austria, UAE, Argentina.

USA and other federations are federations not because of differences in people but because strong central governments are frowned upon

Besides Somalis are qabiilist bastards. Someone from Mogadishu whether Somalia is poor or rich will not think about someone beyond Banadir

I am,

Abdi "Give me a break" Johnson

[XimanJaale]

Lets deal with reality today. Your propositioning some decentralised version where that can obviously carry risks because somalis will fight for the top seat such as presidency and similar positions. Secondly somalis mostly have loyalty towards their clan, how will a central government deal with each major clan - the traditional and political elements. There should be representation.

You don't understand it do you? My whole point for centralism is to abolish the clan system. Traditional elders (QABIL) and the government (STATE) should not be mixed. Similar how secular countries do not mix religion with the state.

People should be elected through district level, regional level etc not through qabil. Each region will elect their own governor, each town will elect their own mayor, each district will elect its own MP. We Somalis need to advance and stop sticking to our primitive ways of mixing tribe with politics.

Therefore the solution of the reality of today is not federal system, but a central system. If a dusty third-world town like Gaalkacyo is under two so-called federal governments how do you expect the whole of Somalia to adopt the federal system? You need to look at the reality and not your desires. There is nothing wrong with Federal system however it is not compatible with the Somali society.

[XimanJaale]

Australia, Austria, UAE, Argentina.

USA and other federations are federations not because of differences in people but because strong central governments are frowned upon

Besides Somalis are qabiilist bastards. Someone from Mogadishu whether Somalia is poor or rich will not think about someone beyond Banadir

I am,

Abdi "Give me a break" Johnson

Limited examples, and some of these countries are not tribalistic by nature.

Who said these regional authorities will be from Mogadishu? These regional administrations will be elected by their own people. Each town will elect their own mayor, each region will elect their own governor and each district will elect their representative MP.

I suggest you study what central system means, I have asked you before. Go and do it, before you reply again.

[XimanJaale]

Somalis are confusing dictatorship with central authority. Is the UK a dictatorship country? are all the hundreds of countries with central government a dictatorship?

Siad Barre is long gone, his dictatorship system is gone, unless another dictator comes into power.

[Estarix]

These are all ideas which you are throwing around with no evidence that it will solve somalia's problems. But lets deal with the reality of today. Are Somalis willing to return to the days of centralism (absolute authority in central government)? nope.
The Bay and Bakool have experienced mass abuse and marginalization and for more than half a century politicians from that region have advocated for federalism. Puntland is satisfied, and will not accept a return to centralism considering the abuse it has suffered from the central government. Somaliland is similarly allergic to such an ordeal and will surely not accept anything less than federalism.
So even if centralism is the be and all it doesnt give us a settlement to the somali quagmire.