Somalis rejected Arabism in the past

[Xildiiid]

Your post says, one of the members of the Walashma dynasty (according to some historians) claimed to be descendants of Yusuf Al Kownayn, it doesn't say Al Kownayn was native to the area because he was not.

The whole misconception started in 1800's when European explorers mixed Yuusuf Al Kownayn an Arab Sheikh who came to Somali inhabited territory 800 years ago with Sheikh Yuusuf Aw Barkhadle, an Isaaq shiekh lived 400 years later.

Al Kownayn was not Somali, had no Somali abtirsi and he's confused with a variety of people not only Yuusuf Aw Barkhadle, for instance Xassan Kaweyni a Somali Sheikh from Southern Somalia that also lived 300-400 years ago is confused with al Kownayn as well.

The question is, how can he have created the script when he was an ethnic Arab and in Arabic phonotactics there is no such thing as ''DH''. It would be impossible for him to coin terms such as ''Alif la kor dhabay'', Alif la hoos dhabay etc.

[Caesar]

Nothing wrong with Arabism its not a threat to Somalis , but the Arabs should keep their violent Jihadi salafi doctrine.Other than Arabs are not to bad people lets not generalize. And Xilldiid is right Imam Sheikhuna Yusuf baghdadi karamalahu waddjuhu was an Arab he lived in the 13 century along the same time as Sheikh isxaaq ibn Axmed al Ridawi. Aw barkhadle was an Isaaq man Ciidagale Clan and he lived 300 years ago and he was the one who did the alif la kordhabay.

Arabs and Somalis are Muslims there are Arabs who came from the hoa remember the lands were the same 10.000s of years ago , and there are Somalis who came from Arabs. Arabic language is also very rich language and i urge who dont speak it to learn it. all Somalis should be multi lingual , in Somaliland Arabic is heavily taught in schools and higher learning institutions.

I have already proven Yusuf al Kownayn has created the method of learning arabic through Somali. It was a standard set by him in the 12-13 century. And I also proved Yusufl al Kownayn was regard as a native man of Somalia, rather then arab. A fact recognized by Egyptians, Harais, and Somali oral tradition.

[Khalid Ali]

Khalid can you let us know from your perspective why Somalis rejected Arabism in the past? As opposed to Egyptians,Sudanese,Libyans etc
Why don't somalis speak solely Arabic like other arabized countries in Africa.

Well Somalis were never conquered by Arabs Sudanese and Egyptians were conquered and their wives were concubines for the leading invading Arab armies

in Somaliland Sufi Arab saints came from the Arabian peninsula , why would Somalis speak Arabic as their mother tongue because they were never assimilated by arabs.

Arabs assimilated into Somalis because the Arabs were smaller in numbers that came, to the Somali peninsula. Bu there are allot of Arab words in Somali language especially in Somaliland.

[Caesar]

Your post says, one of the members of the Walashma dynasty (according to some historians) claimed to be descendants of Yusuf Al Kownayn, it doesn't say Al Kownayn was native to the area because he was not.

They are not "claimed" it is known. By Somalis,Harais and Egyptians. The contrast with the Arabs shows that their historical and genealogical background is that not of an Arab, but rather a Native (Somali) man. This is simple enough to understand. In English it is called a comparison.

The whole misconception started in 1800's when European explorers mixed Yuusuf Al Kownayn an Arab Sheikh who came to Somali inhabited territory 800 years ago with Sheikh Yuusuf Aw Barkhadle, an Isaaq shiekh lived 400 years later.

The gaalos confuse the simplest things. Kownayn again was not arab, but a Native man recognized by Egyptians,Hararis, and Somali oral tradition.

Al Kownayn was not Somali, had no Somali abtirsi and he's confused with a variety of people not only Yuusuf Aw Barkhadle, for instance Xassan Kaweyni a Somali Sheikh from Southern Somalia that also lived 300-400 years ago is confused with al Kownayn as well.

Confusions do not change the fact he was regarded as a native man and his children regarded as native as opposed to arab ( non native) by the Egyptians,Hararis and Somali oral tradition.

The question is, how can he have created the script when he was an ethnic Arab and in Arabic phonotactics there is no such thing as ''DH''. It would be impossible for him to coin terms such as ''Alif la kor dhabay'', Alif la hoos dhabay etc.

Simple as I have proven he was not an Arab.He was a Somali, he created this "script" in the 12-13 century. All proven with sources.

[LobsterUnit]

Ceaser.you are more of an intellectual langaab than I thought.
You are totally confusing a number of unrelated issues.
1.the format for learning the quran by sheikh yusuf was simply an easier way for somalis to learn quran.this is completely unrelated to the so called rejection of arabisation you are refering to.
2.somalis have claimed descent from arabs for hundreds of years.
3.people from egypt, to nigeria, to indonesia claimed descent from arabs because they wanted to be linked to the prophets family.it has nothing to do with arabism.
4.arabism is a political ideology created in the 20th century.
5.somalia went through a different process of islamisation to the countries you mentioned. Egypt was conquered by the army of umar.morroco was conquered by the arabs.the arab islamic army defeated the nubians and sudan was taken. This is all within a short time of the prophets death.all of these lands where taken over by arab speaking emirs.this never happened in somalia.Somalis largely become muslims later under the hands of other somalis.these somalis spread islam throughout somalia by peaceful through and jihad(oromo, gallamdow, etc).there is a clear historical explanation for somalis not speaking arabic.it has nothing to do with a rejection of an ideology which was non existant at that time.

[Khalid Ali]

Nothing wrong with Arabism its not a threat to Somalis , but the Arabs should keep their violent Jihadi salafi doctrine.Other than Arabs are not to bad people lets not generalize. And Xilldiid is right Imam Sheikhuna Yusuf baghdadi karamalahu waddjuhu was an Arab he lived in the 13 century along the same time as Sheikh isxaaq ibn Axmed al Ridawi. Aw barkhadle was an Isaaq man Ciidagale Clan and he lived 300 years ago and he was the one who did the alif la kordhabay.

Arabs and Somalis are Muslims there are Arabs who came from the hoa remember the lands were the same 10.000s of years ago , and there are Somalis who came from Arabs. Arabic language is also very rich language and i urge who dont speak it to learn it. all Somalis should be multi lingual , in Somaliland Arabic is heavily taught in schools and higher learning institutions.

I have already proven Yusuf al Kownayn has created the method of learning arabic through Somali. It was a standard set by him in the 12-13 century. And I also proved Yusufl al Kownayn was regard as a native man of Somalia, rather then arab. A fact recognized by Egyptians, Harais, and Somali oral tradition.

There was no such thing as Somalia when Yusuf al kownayn lived

[Caesar]

1.the format for learning the quran by sheikh yusuf was simply an easier way for somalis to learn quran.this is completely unrelated to the so called rejection of arabisation you are refering to.

It is, Do you think Egyptians,Libyans,Sudanese all learned Quran through their native language or after forced Arabization? Also Somalis rejected Arabiszation in the past by retaining their language and culture. The existance of a Somali culture and language today is a testiment to the rejection of arabization.

2.somalis have claimed descent from arabs for hundreds of years.

Most of the Arab begging came later, in historical revionism,DNA tests have proven Somalis carry little to no arab dna

3.people from egypt, to nigeria, to indonesia claimed descent from arabs because they wanted to be linked to the prophets family.it has nothing to do with arabism.
Somalis also "claim" a link that was shattered by DNA evidence. But for Africa many african nations embraced Arabization, but not Somalis.

4.arabism is a political ideology created in the 20th century.

Perhaps politcally, but the act of arabization has been going on from the time Islam entered Africa. Somalis retained their Identity.

]5.somalia went through a different process of islamisation to the countries you mentioned. Egypt was conquered by the army of umar.morroco was conquered by the arabs.the arab islamic army defeated the nubians and sudan was taken. This is all within a short time of the prophets death.all of these lands where taken over by arab speaking emirs.this never happened in somalia.Somalis largely become muslims later under the hands of other somalis.these somalis spread islam throughout somalia by peaceful through and jihad(oromo, gallamdow, etc).there is a clear historical explanation for somalis not speaking arabic.it has nothing to do with a rejection of an ideology which was non existant at that time.

Exactly Somalis accepted Islam peacefully, so why didn't they accept "arabization" if they claim to be arab? it doesn't make any sense unless they rejected it. Which they did. I just connected the dots.

[Caesar]

Nothing wrong with Arabism its not a threat to Somalis , but the Arabs should keep their violent Jihadi salafi doctrine.Other than Arabs are not to bad people lets not generalize. And Xilldiid is right Imam Sheikhuna Yusuf baghdadi karamalahu waddjuhu was an Arab he lived in the 13 century along the same time as Sheikh isxaaq ibn Axmed al Ridawi. Aw barkhadle was an Isaaq man Ciidagale Clan and he lived 300 years ago and he was the one who did the alif la kordhabay.

Arabs and Somalis are Muslims there are Arabs who came from the hoa remember the lands were the same 10.000s of years ago , and there are Somalis who came from Arabs. Arabic language is also very rich language and i urge who dont speak it to learn it. all Somalis should be multi lingual , in Somaliland Arabic is heavily taught in schools and higher learning institutions.

I have already proven Yusuf al Kownayn has created the method of learning arabic through Somali. It was a standard set by him in the 12-13 century. And I also proved Yusufl al Kownayn was regard as a native man of Somalia, rather then arab. A fact recognized by Egyptians, Harais, and Somali oral tradition.

There was no such thing as Somalia when Yusuf al kownayn lived

Dhulka Somaali

[LobsterUnit]

I didnt say islam was spread throughout somalia completely peacefully.it was also spread by jihad done by somali clans.other groups like gallamadow, oromo, and others in southern somalia in modern day jubbaland were conquered by somalis.

The difference between somalia and those countries is that those countries were conquered by arabs and they became the political, social and economic rulers of those lands. The arabic language spread because it was the language of the state.arabs in somalia settled as migrants in coastal cities and it was therefore pointless or impossible to spread arabic language.arabic in somalia was needed to read the quran and learn the language of it.there was no need to try to impose it as a national language in the absence of a political entity driving this change.again, the creation of a somali based system to read the quran was something done out of necessity and not as a protest against some kind of super imposed arabism.

Dna means nothing.some of these lineages are clearly not real.i know. However, those lineages claiming descent from the prophet were created hundreds of years ago. Carabism iyo bla bla waa wax maskaxdaada ku jira.

[Xildiiid]

Your own source disprove you as it states..

Umar Walashma, the first to reign, according to Harari historian Sheikh Abibakr Ba-Alawi Ashanbali, was a descendant of Yusuf al Kownayn

He was not the descendant of Yusuf al Kownayn, it was just the notion of one of the Harari historians.


The question remains..

How can he have created the script when he was an ethnic Arab and in Arabic phonotactics there is no such thing as ''DH''. It would be impossible for him to coin terms such as ''Alif la kor dhabay'', Alif la hoos dhabay etc.

[Caesar]

Your own source disprove you as it states..

Umar Walashma, the first to reign, according to Harari historian Sheikh Abibakr Ba-Alawi Ashanbali, was a descendant of Yusuf al Kownayn

He was not the descendant of Yusuf al Kownayn, it was just the notion of one of the Harari historians.

Lol a notion? It was a fact brought forth by a Harai Historian, also the Egyptians recognized him as a native man (Somali) As you have forgotten Harar and Zaylac are twin cities. Yusuf Al Kownayn was born in Zaylac, It is not surprising that Harari historians regard him as a native man. I trust a Harari historian who were apart of Awdal, then your unquoted unsourcable lies

How can he have created the script when he was an ethnic Arab and in Arabic phonotactics there is no such thing as ''DH''. It would be impossible for him to coin terms such as ''Alif la kor dhabay'', Alif la hoos dhabay etc.

Again as Harari historians noted, and Egyptians noted as well, he was a Native man and not Arab.
It was created in the 12-13 century as proven by my sources, and was a standard for Somalis to learn Arabic.

[Caesar]

I didnt say islam was spread throughout somalia completely peacefully.it was also spread by jihad done by somali clans.other groups like gallamadow, oromo, and others in southern somalia in modern day jubbaland were conquered by somalis.

I meant the intial spread of Islam by arabs to Somalis. It was peaceful, no wars right? So why not that exact time accept Arabism, arab culture, arab language etc. They had a choice then and chose no.
The existence of Somali culture and Language to this day is a proven rejection of Arabism. Though some begging occurs now a days.

Dna means some of these lineages are clearly not real.i know. However, those lineages claiming descent from the prophet were created hundreds of years ago. Carabism iyo bla bla waa wax maskaxdaada ku jira.

There is no lynig with DNA. Somalis contain little to no Arab DNA. So at the time when Arabs brought Islam to Somails and Somalis did not conform to Arabization or joining the Arab confederacy. It must have been hundreds of years later they invented the fake lineages. But even with that they didn't accept arabic as a first language or follow arab culture. Quite a lazy bit of assimlation in my opinion.

[Xildiiid]

According to him i.e the Harari historian thus making it a notion and not a fact.

It was the Walasham dynasty that considered native by foreign historians and not Yusuf Al Kowneyn who came to Somali territory prior to Ifat. Now.. If he came from else where, he can't be native.

Since he wasn't native, how did he create the Somali way of learning Arabic, coining terms such as 'Alif la kor dhabay'?


If you can't address these points I've raised without repeating the nonsense I've already disproved, I think my job here is done.

[Caesar]

According to him i.e the Harari historian thus making it a notion and not a fact.

It was the Walasham dynasty that considered native by foreign historians and not Yusuf Al Kowneyn who came to Somali territory prior to Ifat. Now.. If he came from else where, he can't be native.

How is a Harari historian foreign, when Zaylac and Harar are twin cities of the same Empire? you are picking at straws Harari historians, and Egyptians regard Yusuf al Kownayn as a native man. This backs up Somali Oral tradition. I see you are reeding and weeping

Since he wasn't native, how did he create the Somali way of learning Arabic, coining terms such as 'Alif la kor dhabay'?


If you can't address these Points I've raised without repeating the nonsense I've disproved, my job here is done.

I already proven he has invented his script in the 12-13 with sources and that he was a Native man regarded by Egyptians,Hararis and Somali oral history.
While you speak without any sources. Your fantasies are not truth.

Yusuf Al Kownayn was a native man and invented his script in the 12-13 century. His students spread Islam into the interior of Somalia. Most Somalis were converted into Islam by a Somali not an Arab. Hararis,Egyptians and Somali oral tradition regard him as a native ( Somali man, all proven facts

[Xildiiid]

You haven't addressed anything nor proved anything so my job here is done and everyone can see how you embarrassed yourself.