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Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:17 pm
by Bandit
You had something cooking for a while when you said legalize prostitution and weed then you went full retarded an included gay right(I personally want them all dead) their is nothing worse than a man with female tendency
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:18 pm
by tmac
jalaaludin5 wrote:How private?
Something that is simply confined to your house and mosque?
I believe that Islam is a complete comprehensive system and can play crucial role in society.
Even when you say separation of religion and the state there can never be a complete separation in a Muslim country. Never.
What about dhaqankeena where does it fit in your dream-nation?
What about dhaqankeena? Dhaqan evolve as time goes on. Cultures evolve and change over time, and it is what it is.
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:19 pm
by three6mafia
tmac wrote:three6mafia wrote:Protection of gays? ? Please explain yourself. I can't comprehend why you would support gays. Legaloze prositition.are you even muslim? Stop trolling
I do agree with having a secular state. I honestly beleive religion is holding us back. Maybe not religion but perhaps the whole arabization thing somalia is going through.
I just look at what is efficient and effective. Netherlands have legalised prostitution and marijuana, and to my knowledge they are still a flourishing country.
If gays are citizens of Somalia they deserve equal protection under the law. Thats just how it is.
I agree with you in that the country would move forward and benefit from implementing a secular type of governing laakin at the end of the day we are Muslim. It really is a tough challenge in trying to be secular but at the same time hold on to your ideals and beliefs. Something beyond my scope and understanding so I won't write a essay but still there's no way we should support Haram.
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:20 pm
by Bandit
three6mafia wrote:Protection of gays? ? Please explain yourself. I can't comprehend why you would support gays. Legaloze prositition.are you even muslim? Stop trolling
I do agree with having a secular state. I honestly beleive religion is holding us back. Maybe not religion but perhaps the whole arabization thing somalia is going through.
Their is nothing wrong with prostitution females hoe exist for ever the only difference is legal now
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:21 pm
by tmac
SolidCamel wrote:The whole concept of freedom is flawed sxb. We all have our limits, every society does, including the west. It's simply a eutopic idea that isn't realistic. People who want freedom of everything aren't aware of their own assumptions/definitions of freedom. It will always reflect what the society at large wants. For ex. If you want freedom to insult religion, then sure, that's easy for you to say as someone who isn't religious, whereas the vast majority of Somalis are (I'm religious yet don't care what ppl say about Islam, I'm not insecure).
On the whole though I like the list, just that you have to take into account the ppl more. I'm a fan of yours bro.
I understand. UK and France got anti racism laws and anti semitic laws. I dont agree with that. I like the American first amendment. Of course freedom is not a straight forward concept, but in general I like how the US have drafted their first amendment
.
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:22 pm
by XimanJaale
tmac wrote:
I was hoping more for like a Turkey style nation. Majority Muslim but not overly religious. Somalis werent very religious pre-1990. We just became uber conservatives after the war. So a Turkey like nation is realistic imo.
I was mostly talking about the power structure of Iran. Since Somalis are predominantly Muslims and practising, we cannot easily separate religion and politics. However I was not advertising the strict Islam of Iran, I was merely advertising their power structure and how nicely they have incorporated religion in to their politics.
Somalia should adopt the similar power structure of Iran. It is very complicated however it is very superior.
A member Eaglehawk mentioned this before.
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:22 pm
by Itrah
tmac wrote:I just look at what is efficient and effective. Netherlands have legalised prostitution and marijuana, and to my knowledge they are still a flourishing country.
If gays are citizens of Somalia they deserve equal protection under the law. Thats just how it is.
They did that whilst they already were a developed country in the 60s/70s.
Somalia is too underdeveloped and the people are too uneducated for such a policy to work like it did in Holland. First you need a large middle class and a decent economy for prostitution to not become problematic.
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:25 pm
by SolidCamel
tmac wrote:SolidCamel wrote:The whole concept of freedom is flawed sxb. We all have our limits, every society does, including the west. It's simply a eutopic idea that isn't realistic. People who want freedom of everything aren't aware of their own assumptions/definitions of freedom. It will always reflect what the society at large wants. For ex. If you want freedom to insult religion, then sure, that's easy for you to say as someone who isn't religious, whereas the vast majority of Somalis are (I'm religious yet don't care what ppl say about Islam, I'm not insecure).
On the whole though I like the list, just that you have to take into account the ppl more. I'm a fan of yours bro.
I understand. UK and France got anti racism laws and anti semitic laws. I dont agree with that. I like the American first amendment. Of course freedom is not a straight forward concept, but in general I like how the US have drafted their first amendment
.
Yeah in theory it's solid, but they obviously butcher it time and time again, but that's a different story.
I do like the Turkey model, minus the banning of religious headgear in government institutions (do they still have that?). Question though, do you think Somalia, after a relatively peaceful era could return to a less salafi/conservative society, like before the 90's?
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:31 pm
by tmac
Itrah wrote:tmac wrote:I just look at what is efficient and effective. Netherlands have legalised prostitution and marijuana, and to my knowledge they are still a flourishing country.
If gays are citizens of Somalia they deserve equal protection under the law. Thats just how it is.
They did that whilst they already were a developed country in the 60s/70s.
Somalia is too underdeveloped and the people are too uneducated for such a policy to work like it did in Holland. First you need a large middle class and a decent economy for prostitution to not become problematic.
That is one conundrum that cant be overlooked. Unfortunately our population back is uneducated so its virtually impossible to implement such policies. Those can be put on the back burner though. Prostitution and weed can be solved later.
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:35 pm
by SiennaEarth
Okay I had to stop after reading that gays should be protected and prostitution should be legalized. Tf?
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:35 pm
by tmac
SolidCamel wrote:tmac wrote:SolidCamel wrote:The whole concept of freedom is flawed sxb. We all have our limits, every society does, including the west. It's simply a eutopic idea that isn't realistic. People who want freedom of everything aren't aware of their own assumptions/definitions of freedom. It will always reflect what the society at large wants. For ex. If you want freedom to insult religion, then sure, that's easy for you to say as someone who isn't religious, whereas the vast majority of Somalis are (I'm religious yet don't care what ppl say about Islam, I'm not insecure).
On the whole though I like the list, just that you have to take into account the ppl more. I'm a fan of yours bro.
I understand. UK and France got anti racism laws and anti semitic laws. I dont agree with that. I like the American first amendment. Of course freedom is not a straight forward concept, but in general I like how the US have drafted their first amendment
.
Yeah in theory it's solid, but they obviously butcher it time and time again, but that's a different story.
I do like the Turkey model, minus the banning of religious headgear in government institutions (do they still have that?). Question though, do you think Somalia, after a relatively peaceful era could return to a less salafi/conservative society, like before the 90's?
It will be hard. 25 years of Salafi conservationism drummed into our heads cannot go away quickly. You have a number of Somali atheists coming out, and hopefully that will be the norm soon, just to balance out and push back oh the conservatism. I honestly think Somali atheists and uber feminists will do us the world of good in the long term.
Its gonna be a long reconstruction era.
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:43 pm
by XimanJaale
tmac,
Why would you enforce people to lose their religious background? Isn't that itself a breach to freedom of expression that you trying to promote?
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:50 pm
by tmac
XimanJaale wrote:tmac,
Why would you enforce people to lose their religious background? Isn't that itself a breach to freedom of expression that you trying to promote?
Whether we like it or not, conservatism restricts people. Its in the name. To conserve. We can't live by a 1950's style culture if we want to progress. Conservatism doesnt allow for different views and ideas, and progression. Plus, its not good for our women.
I have no problem with 98% of us being Muslims. I just dont want religion in parliament and public discourse and int he public sphere.
Yes, I am classic godless atheist metropolitan leftie
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:51 pm
by jalaaludin5
tmac wrote:jalaaludin5 wrote:How private?
Something that is simply confined to your house and mosque?
I believe that Islam is a complete comprehensive system and can play crucial role in society.
Even when you say separation of religion and the state there can never be a complete separation in a Muslim country. Never.
What about dhaqankeena where does it fit in your dream-nation?
What about dhaqankeena? Dhaqan evolve as time goes on. Cultures evolve and change over time, and it is what it is.
What roll do you see elders playing in your ideal somalia?
And what do you think of the house of elders in Somaliland for example?
Re: My ideal Somalia
Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:54 pm
by LiquidHYDROGEN
I find it odd how all of you live in countries where homosexuality, prostitution, freedom of religion and even marijuana are legal (in some form or another). If you despise these things so much, why are you still living in those countries?
I'm not condoning those things, I just find a lot of you very hypocritical.