Arguments for Recognition

[Xildiiid]

If the colonial boundaries are legitimate, in accordance with the Cairo resolution, why would Somaliland need to carve out its own state when its borders are already legitimate? I don't get your argument..

Actually, the AU sent a fact finding mission to Somaliland in 2005 and the AU agreed that Somaliland, not only had historical legitimacy as a sovereign state, but a legal union between Somaliland and Somalia never took place. They know that the two countries merged despite the absense of a legal but they also know that Somalia doesn't have the right to act as the sole legitimate representative of that republic.

The only reason why Somaliland is not recognized is because of the Arab league's pressure on the AU through Egypt and Sudan. After the fact finding mission, Ghana and many other west African states wanted to invite Somaliland to the AU summit in Accra so that Somaliland could present its case. Egypt and Sudan oppose threatening to leave the AU if Somaliland was given the chance.

Now, If the AU would recognize Somaliland's legitimate right, the Americans and the Europeans wouldn't oppose, as they've stated many times.

[SultanOrder]

Either way, like I said, I concede it for the sake of the topic. I am more interested in assessing if others feel that the current strategy has failed, and what other alternatives should be looked at.

[SaciidAyanleh]

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[SaciidAyanleh]

How can you promote discussion when your premise is insulting? Argument #1 should be changed to complete and total self-governance that is heralded by Academics and Journalists alike.

Hardly, it only shines because it is next to Mogadishu, but even so, people who make the argument contrast it with the rest of Somalia.

Case and point:

Somalia hugs the horn of Africa. Loosely speaking, it sits like an upside down ‘L’ hugging the horn. The northern segment which sits astride the Gulf of Aden long maintained a separate identity. During the colonial era, the northern part congealed as British Somaliland, a British protectorate—while the Italians occupied the southern, longer segment alongside the Indian Ocean. It was only upon Somalia’s 1960 independence that the two portions united.

First of all, how is that "case in point?" Please tell me you meant to quote another snippet from the article.

Secondly, you should have addressed both parts of my statement. Are you denying SLand's control of its territory?

The SNM did not balk from Siyaad, why would SLand shy away from war with the South, if and when they get their shit together?[/quote]

[SaciidAyanleh]

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[SultanOrder]

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Whoops I meant this part:

Even in the darkest days of Somalia’s civil war and its descent into state failure, Somaliland maintained its own identity and coherence. It never collapsed the way the rest of Somalia did. Indeed, Somaliland thrived as the rest of Somalia went through hell. Somaliland authorities built a functioning state, with security, functioning schools, transport, currency, industry, and communications. It has held a credible presidential election. Hargeisa, its capital, is thriving. In many ways, Somaliland has become the Kurdistan of the region—an oasis of relative moderation and success—largely ignored by the outside world, including the United States.

[Xildiiid]

Just give up alright. Somaliland was never part of Somalia.

As long as you're bringing that narrative to the table, a discussion won't take place.

[SaciidAyanleh]

Whoops I meant this part:

Even in the darkest days of Somalia’s civil war and its descent into state failure, Somaliland maintained its own identity and coherence. It never collapsed the way the rest of Somalia did. Indeed, Somaliland thrived as the rest of Somalia went through hell. Somaliland authorities built a functioning state, with security, functioning schools, transport, currency, industry, and communications. It has held a credible presidential election. Hargeisa, its capital, is thriving. In many ways, Somaliland has become the Kurdistan of the region—an oasis of relative moderation and success—largely ignored by the outside world, including the United States.

Ah, to be compared to Kurdistan. One of the prized jewels of the Middle East.

[Hodan94]

If they really wanted recognition they could have played more rough and more strategic including delivering politicians and groups in their favor in Mogadishu. They could have invaded the whole Puntland and held Somalia hostage demanding not only more attention for its case but more engagement. But no even if they had million soldiers they going to march all the way to the last inch the white man drew on the map, throw a stick and say-----boys let's camp here we have reached the destination. That is even if the gold mine is only an inch away on the other side.

nope waali case that's a problem, first of all there is no legitimate government in muqdishu there are about 15 different presidents for each region so who do you hold hostage, who wil you do the deal with???? answer to that its no one, I know the eriterians did this in the 90's with mengistu but there is no way SL can do this.

anyway non of this recognition stuff, we will not get recognition from muqdishu and we don't need to now that's for sure, but good news rumours are swirling over the issue with the gulf of aden.... issue has shifted over the middle east, Saudi predicted to lose throne in 5 years because of their suicidal involvement in yemen, remember shia Yemenis also live in thoughout southern Saudi Arabia, the colonials gave it to the Saudis than to the yemen. their whole greater yemen includes many regions from the saud. so things are looking bright. for now lets just focus more on development than recognition....I know the time will come much sooner than I had thought so for the imf not take the advantage of us we should build everything right away.

peace and long live

[ZubeirAwal]

I am not for recognition despite coming from a family of SNM fighters, simply because I don't want our nation to become a western stooge among many stoogies in the world today, we are independent right now, I don't want to see our nation unite with that plastic government in Mogadishu, I am actually for Somaliland going on a conquest and subjugating the entire Somali peninsula under the green white and red.

[theyuusuf143]

For those who are advocating that we should invade other somali territories. I don't think we can afford to loose more lives and more resources to invade others. Sure we can destroy many places but we will pay a heavy prize. Things are not as easy as you think. Somalis don't need any more diedly war. Lets just play politics and proxy unrest with others.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

I am not for recognition despite coming from a family of SNM fighters, simply because I don't want our nation to become a western stooge among many stoogies in the world today, we are independent right now, I don't want to see our nation unite with that plastic government in Mogadishu, I am actually for Somaliland going on a conquest and subjugating the entire Somali peninsula under the green white and red.

The SNM did not support or propose recognition or secession from the union.

Ironically, it's the former faqash stooges and those that went AWOL during the civil war that are the biggest supporters of Somaliland ictiraaf.


As for Sultanorder's question; yes, I think SL's approach towards secession has been disasterous. I feel the country is held back by old, unimaginative, colonial stooges who are only interested in sitting on a Kursi as the youth flee the country to libya and Europe and the ones that stay behind spend all their remittance money on doing everything to remain in a qaad-fueled stupor.

[PrinceDaadi]

I don't know why PO brings back these topics while he already knows where everybody stands about this.

Members are even paying attention to his questions rather focusing the merit of SL.

[Rambie]

I am not for recognition despite coming from a family of SNM fighters, simply because I don't want our nation to become a western stooge among many stoogies in the world today, we are independent right now, I don't want to see our nation unite with that plastic government in Mogadishu, I am actually for Somaliland going on a conquest and subjugating the entire Somali peninsula under the green white and red.

The SNM did not support or propose recognition or secession from the union.

Ironically, it's the former faqash stooges and those that went AWOL during the civil war that are the biggest supporters of Somaliland ictiraaf.


As for Sultanorder's question; yes, I think SL's approach towards secession has been disasterous. I feel the country is held back by old, unimaginative, colonial stooges who are only interested in sitting on a Kursi as the youth flee the country to libya and Europe and the ones that stay behind spend all their remittance money on doing everything to remain in a qaad-fueled stupor.

You're right,
Silanyo himself said they didn't want to succede.
There was an agreement between the USC, SPM and the SNM to come togethre after taking out Siad Barre.
The SNM didn't plann to succede from Somalia.
But after Aidiid declared him self the president and
the destruction of Hargiesa & Burco, it become a very favourble option.

[SimplySerene]

Just give up alright. Somaliland was never part of Somalia.

As long as you're bringing that narrative to the table, a discussion won't take place.

SultanOrder - I think agree with Xildiiid. If Somalia will not have a honest and open discussion . With Truth and Facts how can proper discussion take place between both parties?

I think when everything is clear day with just truth and honesty maybe Somalis can move forward. So everyone needs make the effort towards truth and honesty.