Interesting Debate. Somalilanders VS Delusional Unionists .

[Sophisticate]

Secessionist lost this debate... dadka doodaya dhamaantood waa from waqooyiga somaliya.. waqooyiga somaliya iskuma raacsana Secessionismka.. of course 99% of isaaqs are pro Secessionist , sidoo kale dhulooz and warsangeli and gadanbursi 99% of them are pro Unionist.

Waa run Woqoyigu iskuma raacsana gooni isu taag laakin darajadu aye kala leeyihin. Cisse iyo Gadabursigu support Somaliland but are skeptical about secession. They are willing to participate in Somaliland to some degree.

Dhulbahante iyo Warsangeli are opposed to Somaliland and completely opposed to secession. They are empowered in a united Somalia where they a part of the largest clan and have great say politically. Dhulbahante and Warsangeli can become President or PM in a united Somalia, but will never be allowed near the levers of power in Somaliland. It is simply impossible for them to become normal citizens in Somaliland.

Waa beentaa, Beenaale! Dhulbahante and Warsangeli can and should become President of Somaliland if they embrace and participate in Somaliland politics. Gadabursi were pro Siyad Barre and fought the SNM, but they were elected twice to highest office BEFORE ex SNM members. If they did, anyone can

In United Somali republic, Dhulbahante, Gadabursi, and Warsangeli become drop in the pocket, but in Somaliland, they make a greater percentage of the population and reside large territory and thus wield power. The only thing hindering the Harris, unlike Samaroon, is their participation. They are getting there it looks like finally

You have us confused with Puntlqnd state and their Cumar Maxamud and Cismaan Maxamud isku dhiib dhiib politicking.

First off, do not and I repeat, do not claim Gadabursi were pro-regime. To claim that is naive. They did not "fight" on behalf of the regime. They were not "benefited" by the regime. Like I have stated in many of my previous arguments just because someone choose to not fight with you, does not mean they are against you, nor does it give you a pass to attack them. Unless you are Geroge W. Bush. As I have argued in my previous thread, do you not know anything of playing both sides against the middle. It's a military strategy. I suggest you familiarize yourself with it.



And yes, whenever you folks spread misinformation about my clan I'll be there.

Ramadan Kareem

[AGENT447]

Ramadan Kareem

Lol@the Tri Tards
Anyway whatever happened to objectivity and logical reasoning. Someone saying something as silly as 99% of Isaaq are against SL becoming an independent country is something but then agreeing with that is something entirely different and some getting a bit agitated about the word secessionist lool Waaba iska dhibaato walahi. Waxkasta waxa igaga daran kan jaan jaanka ee mooriyanta iska noqday ee GB sheegta ee aan wax u leyahay iyo maskax iyo fikrad original ah ku hadal. What a bloody moron.

To get back to the topic.....The good shepherd has a point when he says Waqoyiga la iskuma raacsana gooni isu taaga to a varying degrees but utterly wrong about Dhulbahante and Warsangari being able to become a President in Somalia, thats utter nonsense. Just because Ali Khalif once became a token PM doesnt equate to DH and WG having a political clout in the South. In fact GB have more clout in the South than these two harti clans, simply because, as much as its true that Isaqs and Gadabursi are culturally and socially more close, they are at the same time quite distinct from one another therefore don't get lumped with the Isaaqs which means GB get important positions as much as the Isaaqs do. The same can not be said about DH and WS who are being overshadowed by MJs and MXs

And I find it quite hilarious when Isaaqs regurgitate some 20th Century myth that the Gadabursi were pro Siyad Barre and fought the SNM, f-king bulshit. Yes Gadabursis fought the SNM but it was a self defence and stood their ground when the SNA were defeated and SNM with Ethiopian battalions entered Awdal from the east and Cise from the coastal areas. It was mostly the sub clans of Reer Nuur who were fighting the SNM who were mostly Jibriil Abokor and Maxad Case in the coastal area against the Ciise Militias with the the help of SNM. And all of this were in late 90 and early 91 well after SNM became victorious more or less in their struggle with Siyad Barre. And before some of you go running quoting some pages from the cadaan pages, save it. Try having your own objective take on this without plagiarizing some books a white man wrote.

I would say yes, there were pple from Awdal who were part of the Kacaan at the time when Isaaqs where fighting against it, but who wasnt, in fact I would even go as far as to say that there were probably more Isaaqs in the kacaan regime at that time than there were Gadabursis, there were probably more high ranking Isaaq Military Officers and high ranking Civil Servants than there were Gadabursis.
Ya all chat a lot of fadhi ku dirir garbage, when the only notable Gadabursi Kacaan person u can mention is Dahir Rayaale and ofcoz we all know what became of him. Waa ninkii SL soo bar baariyay.

And yes Somaliland is trying to secede from Somalia, so dont let sensitivity cloud your judgement. Somaliland has been part of Somalia and as such trying to be separate from it and as one person said in the vid, if Somaliland has in fact became a sovereign internationally recognized country on 26th of June 1960, what flag was it using which was replaced with the British one on that night? A simple yet extremely important question.

[Siciid85]

Sophisticate and agent
Ramadan Karim,

Baring the Sultan Wabar episode, do you support Somaliland right to stand alone? I ask because I am unsure, so would either one of you kindly put my heart at ease. If you choose to not answer, I totally understand too.

Now,Perhaps I was wrong in equating Gadabursi anti SNM policy as being Pro Siyad Barre stance but nonetheless they did fight the SNM which brings us back to my original point, which was that Gadabursi were anti SNM at one time and later decided to take part and lead the way in reconciling Somaliland tribes and as a result gain respect and prestige and leadership position; it destroys the idea that darood harti clan can't belong and lead Somaliland . One would find that Isaaq are harsh towards each other, but surprisingly more accommodating towards others.


As for Agent, many argument can be made for and against on whether Somaliland is seceding or regaining its independence. The fact of the matter is, there are 5 Somali regions/states as the five pointed white star symbolizes. Since Somaliland is one of the five, meaning we recognize that Somaliland is on equal footing with the other parts, then shouldn't all parties be equal in their say and who decided the Sourh be the guardian or deciding party of how and what one of other parties decides?

Somaliland voluntarily showed at the door to begin with and has now left. For 30 years, The South failed to honor the power sharing agreement and Somaliland has had enough. There won't be second time. As far as I am concern, we would be better of joining Djibouti

To hell with the dirty south

[WaaliCas]

Ramadan Kareem
Somaliland has been part of Somalia and as such trying to be separate from it and as one person said in the vid, if Somaliland has in fact became a sovereign internationally recognized country on 26th of June 1960, what flag was it using which was replaced with the British one on that night? A simple yet extremely important question.

Fadhi ku dirir are useless and Somalis are only good at that. I won't get into all the other BS that Somalis repeat every other day but will answer your question just in case you didn't know.

SL flew the blue flag that became associated with Somalia. That flag belonged to SL even tho it was designed by Puntit and it was based on the UN flag which ruled Somalia after the allies defeated Italy in WW2 (Somalia, the south, became UN Trusteeship like Iraq was for the US).

That's why Hargeisa is called beerti xooriyada and that flag flew there first...and that's when Tima Adde composed "Kana siib kana sar".

The flag, the parliament, the first army, first police and the Shilling currency all came from Somaliland to Mogadishu. That is why until today Somalia's police use the SL camel corps symbol. Before SL took everything south, Somalia had no parliament under Italian rule but SL had one and it was duplicate one once they merged. The first SNA unit was the British trained SL camel corps.

Before SL brought the freedom home, Somalia used the Lira currency. Only British regions used the Shilling.



Little education son.

[AGENT447]

Sicid fair enough glad you are reasonable enough to admit that.

Anyway Abti u have no idea how much I karah when I hear isaaqs claiming we were pro Siyad , we Just refused to go war with you lot. And yes as we all said Gadabursis did fight against the SNM but it was all down to timing. Markay SNM iyo SNA kala dhamaden, ee kacanki dumay ayay ahayd markan is dilnay inaku eed anaka na soo weerarteen with the help of ciise and xabashi. But I dont like how you then again say Gadabursi were anti SNM, not they were not, they just were not pro SNM, big difference. I say that assuming you are talking about Gadabursis being Anti SNM in its entire existence, keep in mind 82 iyo waxas aya la sameeyay, there is no a single historically correct event were Gadabursis have done something to undermine and sabotage SNM effort to fight the kacaan before it all kicked off in 88.

And what are trying insinuate there when you say its rather surprising that Isaaq are more accommodating towards other clans? Bilaa caleek we all know the reality on the ground so lets not play scrabble with words. If anyone has been patient and accommodating towards SL its us who have been putting up with your Kacaan like nepotism, favouritism and blatant misappropriation of funds. Its a fact sxb

[Siciid85]

Thanks I understood. Thanks for the clarification , so could you reread it again and answer my question.
Also I see you and other Isaaq sub clan as no different to me. I think we want the same thing; peace and harmony for ourland and people. People fight all time, Isaacs fought like no tomorrow. At end we are here and I am glad to have you as my countrymen.

What I meant is in Somaliland there is no such thing as unified Isaaq. HY and HJ wax iska neceb miyaad aragtay. Habar Yoni would support Gadabursi over HJ any day of the week. It is just reality back home.

Also all those things you spoke of where there when Rayaale was President. It is the political culture that is rotten. CID la dhergiyey ma jirto.

[theyuusuf143]

I have never seen a gadabuursi or isaaq intellectual against Somaliland Unity even if he/she is a unionist. so yes thegoodshepard has a point. Although I disagree his argument that hartiwaqoyi can't lead Somaliland. in fact a fiqishini can lead Somaliland let alone harti IF he/she is LOYAL RELIABLE AND TRUSTED.

badiba siyaasiyiinta dhulmahante 3daa qodob midna kuma sifoobaan meel ay joogaanba thats why they may never lead Somaliland , Somalia or even putland. the warsangeli are more truested reliable and loyal compare to dhuloos. unlike dhuloos the warsangelis RARELY change their mind like a girl changes her clothes.

[AGENT447]

Ramadan Kareem
Somaliland has been part of Somalia and as such trying to be separate from it and as one person said in the vid, if Somaliland has in fact became a sovereign internationally recognized country on 26th of June 1960, what flag was it using which was replaced with the British one on that night? A simple yet extremely important question.

Fadhi ku dirir are useless and Somalis are only good at that. I won't get into all the other BS that Somalis repeat every other day but will answer your question just in case you didn't know.

SL flew the blue flag that became associated with Somalia. That flag belonged to SL even tho it was designed by Puntit and it was based on the UN flag which ruled Somalia after the allies defeated Italy in WW2 (Somalia, the south, became UN Trusteeship like Iraq was for the US).

That's why Hargeisa is called beerti xooriyada and that flag flew there first...and that's when Tima Adde composed "Kana siib kana sar".

The flag, the parliament, the first army, first police and the Shilling currency all came from Somaliland to Mogadishu. That is why until today Somalia's police use the SL camel corps symbol. Before SL took everything south, Somalia had no parliament under Italian rule but SL had one and it was duplicate one once they merged. The first SNA unit was the British trained SL camel corps.

Before SL brought the freedom home, Somalia used the Lira currency. Only British regions used the Shilling.



Little education son.

LOOOOL tani waaba wali cas, no pun intended Wali cas.
Imika ma waxad iga dhadhicinaysa, the Insignia of the Colonial SL Police or the Somaliland Camel Corps became the actual FLAG of a sovereign Somaliland lol?....And to say Tima Cadde composed "Kana siib Kana Sar" for this flag or the independence of Somaliland is just nothing but a fancy fadhi ku dirir itself and a defamation of the great Halyay that tima cade was looool.....
Its on record that Allaya raxma raaximin Tima Adde was an extremely a pro Greater Somalia person and was ahead of his time and even made poems about the future and the calamities the Somalis might face if they all become clan fiefdoms, therefore intended and composed that song for a United Somalia. We are discussing historical events and by no means undermining the stance of Somaliland today. See it for what its and don't just get sidetracked and distort history just so u can fit in your own current views.

Mida kale,I am sure you are quite more informative than this, in fact more so than a lot of the folks here......Isn't it safe to say that Somaliland never really became an actually recognized independent country in all sense of the word for 5 days? How extremely naive is this when we all know after the victory of the allies in WW2, its was already in the books that Both British Somaliland and Somalia Italiana were gonna be lumped together in 15 years times or so to form a single unified country....It was never a given thing that SL was gonna become an independent country.....Both the North and the South were under the Brits given that the Italians were obviously on the losing side. No society on earth is that stupid and naive to give away such a jackpot. Its an offensive thing to say that our forefathers were that stupid to give away an actual sovereignty in a matter of 5 days....Its just doesnt make sense sxb. Waa wax iska qorshaysnaa, it was pre planned by the powers that be for Somalis to have a Unified country.

Markaa calankii Policka ha iiga dhigin calan Dawladed lol..This is just my humble take on the issue, God knows if there are more to it.

[WaaliCas]

^^You talk a lot for someone who doesn't understand a thing.

I don't have time to explain things. You will eventually learn them yourself.

[theyuusuf143]

@ AGENT447

I give you a honest opinion. in reality as siciid said there is No isaaq inside Somaliland there are habro. the only thing between me and siciid is Somaliland isaaqnimo works only when we are attacked as a isaaq. like the faqash era . Somaliland politics is based on clan alliance not isaqnimo against others. if samarons are not happy with the current ruling alliance (kulmiye) they should join the opposite alliance . no hard feelings or too much complain. why don't you join wadani if kulmiye is bit unfair ? habaryonis supported rayale against silanyo in 2003/2005/2010 its payback time now vote for wadani next time insha allah.

sawdinka yidhaa niman tacliimay oo wax fahanaanu nahay. abti haday habarta aqalka haysaa si fiican idiinku miisi waydo karis xun iyaduunbaa ku wax la,e labada habrood ee kale mid ama labadaba meheriya . habrahoo dhan hadaad ka cabato aday wax kaa jilicsanyihiin . la qabso !

[PrinceDaadi]

debating about what? the people of the north regardless of their tribe have a right to decide their destiny in manner that confirms with international systems, if communities want to go and form a new entity then well and good if others want to stay let it be.

The only thing that matters is things should confirm with International norms and laws.

[Advo]

Agent447

That makes alot of sense, it's refreshing to read informative posts these days since everyone is repeating the same old stories.

[AGENT447]

Sophisticate and agent
Ramadan Karim,

Baring the Sultan Wabar episode, do you support Somaliland right to stand alone? I ask because I am unsure, so would either one of you kindly put my heart at ease. If you choose to not answer, I totally understand too.

Now,Perhaps I was wrong in equating Gadabursi anti SNM policy as being Pro Siyad Barre stance but nonetheless they did fight the SNM which brings us back to my original point, which was that Gadabursi were anti SNM at one time and later decided to take part and lead the way in reconciling Somaliland tribes and as a result gain respect and prestige and leadership position; it destroys the idea that darood harti clan can't belong and lead Somaliland . One would find that Isaaq are harsh towards each other, but surprisingly more accommodating towards others.


As for Agent, many argument can be made for and against on whether Somaliland is seceding or regaining its independence. The fact of the matter is, there are 5 Somali regions/states as the five pointed white star symbolizes. Since Somaliland is one of the five, meaning we recognize that Somaliland is on equal footing with the other parts, then shouldn't all parties be equal in their say and who decided the Sourh be the guardian or deciding party of how and what one of other parties decides?

Somaliland voluntarily showed at the door to begin with and has now left. For 30 years, The South failed to honor the power sharing agreement and Somaliland has had enough. There won't be second time. As far as I am concern, we would be better of joining Djibouti Lool I sometimes use to think we should have made a move on them,join and then take over Sovereign Independent Nation ready to rock and roll

To hell with the dirty south

Ok.....Lets see...I do wholeheartedly support Somaliland in its current existence, for societal and security reasons. But Politically, Economically and Principally, No I don't. I say this knowing that economically, Gadabursi development have stagnated tremendously in every aspect under SL and it will always be like this if not worse. Politically, You have taken us for a ride when there is nothing of substantial political seats allocated to GBs. Saylici is a joke and we all know Dahir Rayale was one of the best strategical moves Isaaqs have ever made and lets not talk about the carefully hand picked Ministers which are nothing but Rooble90 like individuals who are only there for their own individual gains and their doqonimo traits. Principally, we all know Somaliland in isaaq is biday an that isaaq correlates with Sl and vice versa. Knowing that an Isaaq guy would never be on board with the idea of Gadabursi dominated entity. Basically there are no 2 pple from 2 different Somali clans who have the same principle today. Its a well known fact.

With that all being said..Ilahayba iskeen biday and there is no reason for me to be against Somaliland per say...I would fuking go to war for Somaliland today, if need be....Dadkaygii way ku dageen wayna ku xasileeen,and when I say dadkaygii I also mean my many isaaq relatives so therefore I would even go as far as to say that I am against Suldan Wabar and his amateurish gorilla warfare.

I do agree with you that the South should not take for granted the Governance of Somalis, but what made them the guardians are the pple who could, the colonial powers back then. On an entirely paradoxical point of view, Somaliland is doing the same thing if not worse, using colonial factors to justify them going separate. And also to keep certain ani Somaliland elements hostage, arguing that the Somaliland colonial borders should be taken for granted, when in fact the Clan Borders supersede colonial ones.

If you guys are adamant that Isaaq/Somaliland have every reason to be separate from Somalia all based on self interest and not some colonial bollocking, what then is your issue with Dhulos or Gbs and their own secessionist movements?

P.s Ree Sheikh Isaxaaq have also failed to honour the SL clan agreements and power and wealth sharing points that have been agreed on in Borama 93 conference. At least The South never sat down with a ree Waqooyi representatives and formally agreed with power and wealth sharing points.

[theyuusuf143]

" P.s Ree Sheikh Isaxaaq have also failed to honour the SL clan agreements and power and wealth sharing points that have been agreed on in Borama 93 conference. At least The South never sat down with a ree Waqooyi representatives and formally agreed with power and wealth sharing points"

In 93 we agreed that you should get the vise always. did we failed to keep that gentleman agrmeent or we gave you even more by electing a samaron president democratically ? Samaroons never been out of the state house since 93. all Somaliland political parties have reserved that vice position for you plus you have better chance to lead somaliland than any other Somaliland clan. in 2012 the government allowed the creation of new political parties no single samaron person tried to create his own party. you even had the leadership of Somaliland's greatest party but rayaale abandoned his party. for that reason you can not complain the current isaaq dominated parties and their policies. remember we are just shareholders I don't have to give you everything. you must work for it.

[AGENT447]

@Advo cheers mate,appreciate it!


@Yuusuf, Abti I know what you mean. There is definately a staunch competition among isaaqs themselves and never identify with each other....Hj alone dont identify with each other. But wax iska cad bad qeexaysaa and trying to use it as a justification of the blatant marginalisation of non isaaq clans in Sl....Thats cheap and totally bogus argument. Waar Majertenka mesha isku urursaday ayaa sidaas isku ah

That being said, abti waynu is fahmaynaaa mesha ma mirqansanin ee naga da sheko marfashka...Isaaq is isaaaq whether they compete with each other or not...Ninka Gadabursiga ee maanta meel dheer wax ka eegaya dee Isaaaq waa u isaaq uun....Waxan ka hadlayaa the bigger picture not that domestic party politics.Taasi waa meel soke.Anyway lool ninman wax yaqana hadaan nahay halkaaba maanu joognen e, laakiin What I just wrote is part of that reasoning and wax garad nimo which has saved us from a lot of calamities. As I said before we tend to follow the philosophy of " Nin leh ayaa u doobshay" We all know SL in isaaq is biday and we recognize that and you won't see us kicking or making a fuss and forming an actual secessionist movements which can jeapordize the stability of Somaliland which we are more than capable of.

But to say isaaqba waa is dulmaa ama xiligii riyaale ba wax waala is dulmi jiray ee Gadabursow iska adkaysa, is laughable if not outright offensive.The entire SNM idea was born out of the fact the south was taking everything and how nepotistic and clanistic Siyad barre became, not because he started persecuting and assassinating prominent isaaq folks.