The Saudis seriously need to reform some aspects of Islam that they are propagating.

[Adal99]

Fuck the saudis, stop following people/ideology. Mental slavery through religion is a semitic peoples weapon against the world.

[gegiroor]

When one looks at the learned Salafi slamic scholars from Egypt, Syria,and other places, one can clearly find them of following the fiqh (Islamic jurispudence). That means most of literalist charges that people lobby against them do not hold water. A clear example that can be cited is Sheikh Yusuf Estes from Texas, Sheikh Mustafe Ismail, and many others. Many of their lectures are abundant in the web, and their dealings of topics such as this can be found in youtube and other places.

Secondly, ex-Muslims leaving Islam can't be attributed to Salafi or what people call 'Wahabi' Muslims. When one looks at the foundations of these ex-Muslims, one can clearly find them to be leading a decadent lifestyle. Many of them are people who knew little about Islam, didn't practice, came from broken homes, and when they are challenged with simplistic theological questions, they subscribe to the prevailing theme - secularism - in the West. A subset of these ex-Muslims are also people who embraced with lifestyles that are condemned in Islam, and since the much publicized 'logic' and 'reason' - which is what atheists claim - encourages them to live as they see fit, it becomes their chosen path.

In reality though, the claim that Islam is losing to 'logic and reason' is far from the truth. It is the fastest growing religion in the world. Particularly, the west, South and Latin American continents are where majority of conversions to Islam are taking place. Unlike the ex-Muslims who're following their lust, many of these new Muslims are intellectuals who studied many other religions and Islam has become their chosen faith. And most importantly, a subsection of these new converts were actually atheists who got tired of false claims and exaggerations made in those lust based beliefs.

To sum it up, it is the facts on ground that refute to those who blame everything that is wrong in Muslim society on Salafi Muslims. If anything, Salafi Muslims are the last bulwark against the same forces who're committed to destroying Islam. While other groups opt for finding excuses, always apologize for events that are attributed to Muslims when we don't know who the real perpetrators are, or constantly blame other Muslims, Salafi Muslims hold their line and stay firm to the tenets of Islam. At the end of the day, it is the truth (Islam) that will prevail over falsehood, and every Muslim knows that we have a divine promise that we will never lose to Dajjal's religions!!

[gegiroor]

Listen to Sheikh Yusuf Estes explaining Salafi, Wahabi, Sufi, and other groups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeN_hCqddhs

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The tragedy in this forum is people who have no knowledge in Islam want to repeat everyday Wahabi this, Wahabi that, Salafi this, Salafi when they have no knowledge in the Quran, hadiths, and don't specifically follow any particular school of thought. Some of these people are perhaps non-Muslims, and in their effort to attack Islam, running with those terms have become their favorite scapegoat route

[UlteriorMotive]

And jamal you yourself are a victim of highly successful Saudi propaganda and influence.
You already attached allot if importance to Saudi scholars.

While I do not.

I have zero respect for Saudi authorities and all who cooperate with them including those called scholars.
They automatically go into my ignore list.
But I know I am prejudiced and I have discovered a couple of great scholars in Saudi that I greatly admire.
So this is a flaw from my side.

Whenever I come across a Saudi scholar or a Somali scholar educated there I assume he is an idiot.
But then I keep reminding myself not to judge and I look again.

The majority of Somalis and a growing percentage f Muslims around the world have the same flaw as me but in the opposite direction.
If they come across a Saudi or anyone associated with them they automatically attach great respect and holiness to them.

I said this in another thread:

Salafis are a huge danger to the Ummah. It attracts the religiously ignorant who are in need of simplistic messages e.g...that's bid'a...that's shirk etc. Many of them gain superficial knowledge in religious areas over which there are disagreements and speak with such authority and arrogance that they label other Muslims. They have reduced the deen to outward appearances like ankle length trousers...size of one's beard the many different characteristics which they believe makes them superior Muslims.

The saddest part is many of them do not last..hence the term Salafi burnout. The ideological purity they seek is simply not sustainable nor realistic.

Saudis spread it because it serves their interests and because of PetroDollars their ''scholars'' and books can shout the loudest. Prior to oil no one considered Najd as any place worthy of being taken seriously . It was never a place people went to for knowledge like North Africa...Iraq...Damascus. The place has always been populated with ignorant jaahils.

[gegiroor]

Detailing the bid'a (heresy) practices of Sufis:

The Sufis worship others than Allaah, such as Prophets and “awliya’” [“saints”], living or dead. They say, “Yaa Jeelaani”, “Yaa Rifaa’i” [calling on their awliya’], or “O Messenger of Allaah, help and save” or “O Messenger of Allaah, our dependence is on you”, etc.

But Allaah forbids us to call on anyone except Him in matters that are beyond the person's capabilities. If a person does this, Allaah will count him as a mushrik, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And invoke not, besides Allaah, any that will neither profit you, nor hurt you, but if (in case) you did so, you shall certainly be one of the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers).” [Yoonus 10:106]

The Sufis believe that there are abdaal, aqtaab and awliya’ (kinds of “saints”) to whom Allaah has given the power to run the affairs of the universe. Allaah tells us about the mushrikeen (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say [O Muhammad]: ‘…And who disposes the affairs?’ They will say. ‘Allaah.’…” [Yoonus 10:31]

The mushrik Arabs knew more about Allaah than these Sufis!

The Sufis turn to other than Allaah when calamity strikes, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And if Allaah touches you with harm, none can remove it but He, and if He touches you with good, then He is Able to do all things.” [al-An’aam 6:17]

Some Sufis believe in wahdat al-wujood (unity of existence). They do not have the idea of a Creator and His creation, instead they say that everything is creation and everything is god.

The Sufis advocate extreme asceticism in this life and do not believe in taking the necessary means or in jihaad, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But seek with that (wealth) which Allaah has bestowed on you, the home of the Hereafter, and forget not your portion of legal enjoyment in this world…” [al-Qasas 28:77]

“And make ready against them all that you can of power…” [al-Anfaal 8:60]

The Sufis refer the idea of ihsaan to their shaykhs and tell their followers to have a picture of their shaykh in mind when they remember Allaah and even when they are praying. Some of them even put a picture of their shaykh in front of them when they are praying. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Ihsaan is when you worship Allaah as if you can see Him, and although you cannot see Him, He can see you.” (Reported by Muslim).

The Sufis allow dancing, drums and musical instruments, and raising the voice when making dhikr, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The believers are only those who, when Allaah is mentioned, feel a fear in their hearts…” [al-Anfaal 8:2]

Moreover, you see some of them making dhikr by only pronouncing the Name of Allaah, saying, “Allaah, Allaah, Allaah.” This is bid’ah and has no meaning in Islam. They even go to the extreme of saying, “Ah, ah” or “Hu, Hu.” The Sunnah is for the Muslim to remember his Lord in words that have a true meaning for which he will be rewarded, such as saying Subhaan Allaah wa Alhamdulillah wa Laa ilaaha illa Allaah wa Allaahu akbar, and so on.

https://islamqa.info/en/4983

continued....

[gegiroor]

The Sufis recite love poems mentioning the names of women and boys in their dhikr gatherings, and they repeat words such as “love”, “passion”, “desire” and so on, as if they are in a gathering where people dance and drink wine and clap and shout. All of this has to do with the customs and acts of worship of the mushrikeen. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Their salaah (prayer) at the House (of Allaah, i.e., the Ka’bah at Makkah) was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands…”

[al-Anfaal 8:35]

Some Sufis pierce themselves with rods of iron, saying, “O my grandfather!” So the shayaateen come to them and help them, because they are seeking the help of someone other than Allaah . Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whosoever turns away (blinds himself) from the remembrance of the Most Beneficent (Allaah), We appoint for him a shaytaan (devil) to be a qareen (intimate companion) for him.”[al-Zukhruf 43:36]

The Sufis claim to have gnosis and knowledge of the unseen, but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say: ‘None in the heavens and the earth knows the ghayb (unseen) except Allaah…’” [al-Naml 27:65]

The Sufis claim that Allaah created the world for the sake of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And I (Allaah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).” [al-Dhaariyaat 51:56]

Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, addressed His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with the words (interpretation of the meaning):

“And worship your Lord until there comes unto the certainty (i.e., death).” [al-Hijr 15:99]

The Sufis claim that they can see Allaah in this life, but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“[Moosa said:] ‘O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You.’ Allaah said, ‘You cannot see Me…’” [al-A’raaf 7:143]

https://islamqa.info/en/4983

Continued...

[gegiroor]

The Sufis claim that they take knowledge directly from Allaah, without the mediation of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and in a conscious state (as opposed to dreams). So are they better than the Sahaabah??

The Sufis claim that they take knowledge directly from Allaah, without the mediation of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They say, “Haddathani qalbi ‘an Rabbi (My heart told me from my Lord).”

The Sufis celebrate Mawlid and hold gatherings for sending blessings on the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but they go against his teachings by raising their voices in dhikr and anaasheed (religious songs) and qaseedahs (poems) that contain blatant shirk. Did the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) celebrate his birthday? Did Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, ‘Uthman, ‘Ali, the four imaams or anyone else celebrate his birthday? Who knows more and is more correct in worship, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Salaf, or the Sufis?

The Sufis travel to visit graves and seek blessings from their occupants or to make tawaaf (ritual circumambulation) around them or to make sacrifices at these sites, all of which goes against the teachings of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Do not travel to visit any place but three mosques: al-Masjid al-Haraam [in Makkah], this mosque of mine [in Madeenah] and al-Masjid al-Aqsa [in Jerusalem].” (Agreed upon).

The Sufis are blindly loyal to their shaykhs, even when what they go against the words of Allaah and His Messenger. But Allaah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Do not put (yourselves) forward before Allaah and His Messenger…” [al-Hujuraat 49:1]

The Sufis use talismans, letters and numbers for making decisions and for making amulets and charms and so on.

https://islamqa.info/en/4983

continued....

[gegiroor]

The article is very long and documented by Sunni Muslim scholars who observed the heresy practices that Sufis attribute to Islam when the truth is those deviant aqeedah have nothing to do with the Quran and authentic hadiths.

Please read the article fully and educated yourself on the topic: https://islamqa.info/en/4983

[jalaaludin5]

Islam and the the holy Quran were send down to serve as a guide, or a GPs if you like, for mankind's soul. Sufis are concerned with man's soul and purifying the heart in order to get that little bit closer Allah.

Yes there are crazy sufi sects that believe in all sorts of ridiculous things. That in itself is not enough to dismiss true Sufism. One only have to look at what's going on in the delusional world of Salafis and their tradition of contradiction, inconsistencies and irrational interpretation of the scripture. Salafis are self righteous lunatics. They claim to follow the good examples of the pious predecessors, so they are good. But even a mad person claiming to be sane doesn't make him less crazy.

A distinction should be made between the Sufism of Imam al-Ghazali and some of the various brands of Sufism today. Al-Ghazali’s support of the Sufis in his time should not be taken as a blanket endorsement of all Sufi ideologies today, some of which may lead to innovation or misguidance. In Imam al-Ghazali’s time, Sufism at its core simply meant purifying the soul and turning it towards Allah, as al-Ghazali states about the Sufis:”The aim of their knowledge is to lop off the obstacles present in the soul and to rid oneself of its reprehensible habits and vicious qualities in order to attain thereby a heart empty of all save God and adorned with the constant remembrance of God.”

Sufis are light. Salafis are darkness.



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[gegiroor]

Where is the true Sufism that people talk about?

This is the deviant Sufis that we know:

MADAD YAA JEYLAANI AGITHNAA YAGUUTHNU

NINKII WANAN BARUUR WEYN QALA BAA LA BARAKAYNE

AWLIYAAN AHEE EE SIYAARADA KEEN AAN KU BARAKEEYEE

Cabdulqaadir Jeylaani dhulka ayuu taako taako ugu jiraa


This is purifying the heart that Sufis talk about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sECtnzWsU

[Hyperactive]

gegigoor

i am not a bog fan of House of Saud but mashallah love and learned a lot from our sheiyoukh from najd and hijaas past and present. God bless them.

we are not going back warshiping graves!! Authobillah.

[bareento]

Where is the true Sufism that people talk about?

This is the deviant Sufis that we know:

MADAD YAA JEYLAANI AGITHNAA YAGUUTHNU

NINKII WANAN BARUUR WEYN QALA BAA LA BARAKAYNE

AWLIYAAN AHEE EE SIYAARADA KEEN AAN KU BARAKEEYEE

Cabdulqaadir Jeylaani dhulka ayuu taako taako ugu jiraa


This is purifying the heart that Sufis talk about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_sECtnzWsU

When one is filled with hate and terror...one cant understand LOVE OF THE SUPREME!
The one who is filled with hate and terror sees religious duties as a business transaction as an investment for the hereafter (having houris, jannat, avoiding hell fire etc etc)
Whereas a sufi doesnt care of Jannat ad he is not afraid of hell...all that matters to him is to get closer to the ALMIGHTY.
He doesnt pray to go to janna but to get closer to ALLAH.
He doesnt help the needy to get to janna but to get closer to God!

In order to understand sufism, one should be liberated from fear of hereafer!
When I discovered SUFISM ...it was like liberation to me! I saw the beauty of RELIGION and I wept!
Now i dont care of janna, I am not afraid of hell...and I feel really closer to my CREATOR! Alhamdulillah

B.

[gegiroor]

gegigoor

i am not a big fan of House of Saud but mashallah love and learned a lot from our sheiyoukh from najd and hijaas past and present. God bless them.

we are not going back warshiping graves!! Authobillah.

Thanks brother Hyper

I am also not a fan of the House of Saud and pray for their demise everyday. Not only them, but all of the despotic regimes in the Muslim world. I also pray something better in their place. (Amen)

[jalaaludin5]

Sufis understand true nature of things or at the very least try to get a better understanding through prayers, dikr and sincere devotion to Allah. They are busy trying to keep all those inner demons and dogs in their proper cages.

I can post videos of Salafis and their demented behaviour but what would be the point.

The bottom line is that, Sufis first look into their own heart and try to correct their flaws, while salafis are always looking out and trying to fix others.

Sufis can get overwhelmed by everything and withdraw from the world.
Salafi get overwhelmed by everything and start chopping limbs, or strap himself in a suicide vest in a desperate attempt to compensate for his confused state.
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[mcali]

When I see a Sufi/Salafi topic I can't help but add my two cents in.

When I was 16 and really wanted to learn about Islam all I listened to were Salafi scholars. Obviously they dominate YouTube so I took everything I know about islam from them. Out of curiosity I came upon Sufism. At first I dismissed it as bidah but honestly when I looked further into it I began to find what I know know as the truth. Alxamdulilah I'm still trying to build my character actively and become a better human being. I'm rambling now but please give tassawuf a chance. It's a science that will purify your heart and lead you to Al-Akhir. Al-Waduud. Allah!!!!