SomaliNet Forums

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:33 pm

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:23 pm

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 8:55 pm so the isaaqs had more than 100,000 rifles to fight off meneliks army, is what ur saying? or?

"The Ethiopian Emperor Menelik’s Somali expedition, consisting of an army of 11,000 men, made a deep push into the vicinity of Luuq in Somalia. However, his troops were soundly defeated by the Gobroon army, with only 200 soldiers returning alive.

The Ethiopians subsequently refrained from further expeditions into the interior of Somalia, but continued to oppress the people in the Ogaden (aka Somali region) by plundering the nomads of their livestock.

The British blockade in firearms to the Somalis rendered the nomads in the Ogaden (aka Somali region) helpless against the armies of Menelik."

They could never make a push inside Somalia, since it was heavily armed with strong armies. They couldn't even take the Ogaden region, but were only able to plunder the nomads like thieves. Had it not been for the European arm blockade, them supporting the Habesha Christians, and colonizing our lands, the Somalis would have eventually united and taken all of Ethiopia like the days of Ahmed Gurey. Don't compare us to you Oromos, we have the longest sea in mainland Africa. No way would we get colonized by niggers.

11,000 troops? sounds like he under-estimated you, that's all. it took menelik about 40 years to conquer oromos, even tho, oromos had no guns, and some even submitted peacefully. how long did it take menelik to take the ogaden again? few years? few hours?

it took menelik 6-7 years to conquer just 1 oromo clan, while he beat italy in a few hours.

those same niggers were free while 3 different european powers took somali land and split it like pie. don't get emotional bro.

Menelik fought Italy with 200,000 soldiers and 100,000 guns. Italy had less than 5 % than that. I don't understand this great "victory" you speak of. How can anybody lose?

It was a setback, yes, but then Italy eventually colonized all of Ethiopia in 1939. Haile Selassie was a refugee begging for help. But he couldn't do anything to stop Italian East Africa. Only after Italy was defeated in World War 2, did he get given his Ethiopia for free along with Ogaden that Britain conquered, not Menelik(who could only plunder nomads but not hold territory).

As for your people, you were conquered and ruled. You were colonized by Africans, niggers, people who are just like you. Why didn't you smuggle weapons in from Somali ports? Did you even have money to buy firearms? At least I can say, we lost to white people who bombed us in planes(first in Africa). But Habeshas?

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:28 pm At the turn of the 16th century Adal regrouped and around 1527 under the charismatic leadership of Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi (Gurey in Somali, Gragn in Amharic, both meaning “left-handed), Adal invaded Ethiopia. Adalite armies with Ottoman support and arms marched into Ethiopia and caused considerable damage on the Highland state.

Adal’s use of firearms, still only rarely used in Ethiopia, allowed the conquest of well over half of Ethiopia, reaching as far north as Tigray. The complete conquest of Ethiopia was averted by the timely arrival of a Portuguese expedition led by Cristovão da Gama, son of the famed navigator Vasco da Gama.

The Portuguese responded to the Ethiopian pleas for help and sent a military expedition to their fellow Christians. A Portuguese fleet under the command of Estêvão da Gama was sent from India and arrived at Massawa in February 1541. Here he received an ambassador from the Emperor beseeching him to send help against the Muslims, and in July following a force of 400 musketeers, under the command of Christovão da Gama, younger brother of the admiral, marched into the interior, and being joined by Ethiopian troops they were at first successful against the Muslims but they were subsequently defeated at the Battle of Wofla (28 August 1542), and their commander captured and executed.

The Habeshas can only cry for "Christian" help against Somalis, you see. My ancestors would have united all Somalis were it not for the British using the first aerial bombardment in Africa against my people.

''While the Adal empire was getting ready to administer the defeated Abyssinian peoples, the Oromo engaged the army of Adal empire in a fierce battle. At the end of the day, the Oromo army destroyed a huge army of the adal empire which was equipped with the latest weapons of the times namely fire arms in a famous battle of hazaloo in 1559.''

[Ethnicity, Politics, and Society in Northeast Africa: Conflict and Social Change
By Mohammed Ali, page 124]

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:52 pm

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:28 pm At the turn of the 16th century Adal regrouped and around 1527 under the charismatic leadership of Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi (Gurey in Somali, Gragn in Amharic, both meaning “left-handed), Adal invaded Ethiopia. Adalite armies with Ottoman support and arms marched into Ethiopia and caused considerable damage on the Highland state.

Adal’s use of firearms, still only rarely used in Ethiopia, allowed the conquest of well over half of Ethiopia, reaching as far north as Tigray. The complete conquest of Ethiopia was averted by the timely arrival of a Portuguese expedition led by Cristovão da Gama, son of the famed navigator Vasco da Gama.

The Portuguese responded to the Ethiopian pleas for help and sent a military expedition to their fellow Christians. A Portuguese fleet under the command of Estêvão da Gama was sent from India and arrived at Massawa in February 1541. Here he received an ambassador from the Emperor beseeching him to send help against the Muslims, and in July following a force of 400 musketeers, under the command of Christovão da Gama, younger brother of the admiral, marched into the interior, and being joined by Ethiopian troops they were at first successful against the Muslims but they were subsequently defeated at the Battle of Wofla (28 August 1542), and their commander captured and executed.

The Habeshas can only cry for "Christian" help against Somalis, you see. My ancestors would have united all Somalis were it not for the British using the first aerial bombardment in Africa against my people.

''While the Adal empire was getting ready to administer the defeated Abyssinian peoples, the Oromo engaged the army of Adal empire in a fierce battle. At the end of the day, the Oromo army destroyed a huge army of the adal empire which was equipped with the latest weapons of the times namely fire arms in a famous battle of hazaloo in 1559.''

[Ethnicity, Politics, and Society in Northeast Africa: Conflict and Social Change
By Mohammed Ali, page 124]

Sadacha, your people stopped the Islamization of Horn of Africa. Nothing to be proud about it. Today, your ruled by the people we would have made Muslims. Your people today are now mostly Christian and on the side of the Habeshas who conquered you.

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:47 pm

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:33 pm

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:23 pm
"The Ethiopian Emperor Menelik’s Somali expedition, consisting of an army of 11,000 men, made a deep push into the vicinity of Luuq in Somalia. However, his troops were soundly defeated by the Gobroon army, with only 200 soldiers returning alive.

The Ethiopians subsequently refrained from further expeditions into the interior of Somalia, but continued to oppress the people in the Ogaden (aka Somali region) by plundering the nomads of their livestock.

The British blockade in firearms to the Somalis rendered the nomads in the Ogaden (aka Somali region) helpless against the armies of Menelik."

They could never make a push inside Somalia, since it was heavily armed with strong armies. They couldn't even take the Ogaden region, but were only able to plunder the nomads like thieves. Had it not been for the European arm blockade, them supporting the Habesha Christians, and colonizing our lands, the Somalis would have eventually united and taken all of Ethiopia like the days of Ahmed Gurey. Don't compare us to you Oromos, we have the longest sea in mainland Africa. No way would we get colonized by niggers.

11,000 troops? sounds like he under-estimated you, that's all. it took menelik about 40 years to conquer oromos, even tho, oromos had no guns, and some even submitted peacefully. how long did it take menelik to take the ogaden again? few years? few hours?

it took menelik 6-7 years to conquer just 1 oromo clan, while he beat italy in a few hours.

those same niggers were free while 3 different european powers took somali land and split it like pie. don't get emotional bro.

Menelik fought Italy with 200,000 soldiers and 100,000 guns. Italy had less than 5 % than that. I don't understand this great "victory" you speak of. How can anybody lose?

It was a setback, yes, but then Italy eventually colonized all of Ethiopia in 1939. Haile Selassie was a refugee begging for help. But he couldn't do anything to stop Italian East Africa. Only after Italy was defeated in World War 2, did he get given his Ethiopia for free along with Ogaden that Britain conquered, not Menelik(who could only plunder nomads but not hold territory).

As for your people, you were conquered and ruled. You were colonized by Africans, niggers, people who are just like you. Why didn't you smuggle weapons in from Somali ports? Did you even have money to buy firearms? At least I can say, we lost to white people who bombed us in planes(first in Africa). But Habeshas?

you're supposed to bring all your armies out when a foreign army is coming to conquer you. if somalis had the same weapons and manpower, they'd do the same thing to resist italy, the british, the french, etc.


and it was 1935-1941 when italy occupied, not colonized, ethiopia.
but yes i get the point you're trying to make.

menelik did not try to hold territory. his laying claim to ogaden, and his raids, and his alliances that he built with some somali clans, is what justified/legitimized his claims to the ogaden later on. the ogaden is in a strategic area for both military and trade, this is the main reason menelik wanted it, btw. plus the resources there, like livestock.

we conquered and we got conquered. simple as that. some oromo were leading the armies, some were conquered by the ethio army. our history with ethiopia is a lot more complex than the one somalis had with ethiopia.

if somalis couldn't get guns from the ports, what makes u think oromos would be able to? come on, think before u type bro.

and do u think the abyssinians produced those guns in their territory? no....the oromo, well some of them, were close to the same situation as somalis, except for the fact that their land wasn't split between all those european powers. it all fell within one empire, for the most part, the ethiopian empire.

The nation Ethiopia has always begging foreigners for help. First the begged the Europeans for help against the Portuguese, and then the begged the British to save them from the Italians, and then they begged for the British for Somali territories. Not only were they shameless beggars, their peasant armies were no match against Somali armies. They were crushed by the Adal or the terrorised by the egalitarian Dervish movement.

They have an incredibly pathetic history.

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:57 pm

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:52 pm

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:28 pm At the turn of the 16th century Adal regrouped and around 1527 under the charismatic leadership of Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi (Gurey in Somali, Gragn in Amharic, both meaning “left-handed), Adal invaded Ethiopia. Adalite armies with Ottoman support and arms marched into Ethiopia and caused considerable damage on the Highland state.

Adal’s use of firearms, still only rarely used in Ethiopia, allowed the conquest of well over half of Ethiopia, reaching as far north as Tigray. The complete conquest of Ethiopia was averted by the timely arrival of a Portuguese expedition led by Cristovão da Gama, son of the famed navigator Vasco da Gama.

The Portuguese responded to the Ethiopian pleas for help and sent a military expedition to their fellow Christians. A Portuguese fleet under the command of Estêvão da Gama was sent from India and arrived at Massawa in February 1541. Here he received an ambassador from the Emperor beseeching him to send help against the Muslims, and in July following a force of 400 musketeers, under the command of Christovão da Gama, younger brother of the admiral, marched into the interior, and being joined by Ethiopian troops they were at first successful against the Muslims but they were subsequently defeated at the Battle of Wofla (28 August 1542), and their commander captured and executed.

The Habeshas can only cry for "Christian" help against Somalis, you see. My ancestors would have united all Somalis were it not for the British using the first aerial bombardment in Africa against my people.

''While the Adal empire was getting ready to administer the defeated Abyssinian peoples, the Oromo engaged the army of Adal empire in a fierce battle. At the end of the day, the Oromo army destroyed a huge army of the adal empire which was equipped with the latest weapons of the times namely fire arms in a famous battle of hazaloo in 1559.''

[Ethnicity, Politics, and Society in Northeast Africa: Conflict and Social Change
By Mohammed Ali, page 124]

Sadacha, your people stopped the Islamization of Horn of Africa. Nothing to be proud about it. Today, your ruled by the people we would have made Muslims. Your people today are now mostly Christian and on the side of the Habeshas who conquered you.

I am Muslim myself bro, I posted that quote to show the oromos aint no punks or weaklings in the horn. we were known and our history shows it-we fought the mahdists of sudan in the west, beat them, beat the adalites, got the best land in the horn as far as farm land, etc.
and i give credit where it's due-unlike you--the somali conquered the most land per ethnic group-although most is not suitable for farming, but there's still a lot of fresh farm land in southern somalia--60% of it is arable mashaaAllah.

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:04 pm

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:57 pm

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:52 pm




''While the Adal empire was getting ready to administer the defeated Abyssinian peoples, the Oromo engaged the army of Adal empire in a fierce battle. At the end of the day, the Oromo army destroyed a huge army of the adal empire which was equipped with the latest weapons of the times namely fire arms in a famous battle of hazaloo in 1559.''

[Ethnicity, Politics, and Society in Northeast Africa: Conflict and Social Change
By Mohammed Ali, page 124]

Sadacha, your people stopped the Islamization of Horn of Africa. Nothing to be proud about it. Today, your ruled by the people we would have made Muslims. Your people today are now mostly Christian and on the side of the Habeshas who conquered you.

I am Muslim myself bro, I posted that quote to show the oromos aint no punks or weaklings in the horn. we were known and our history shows it-we fought the mahdists of sudan in the west, beat them, beat the adalites, got the best land in the horn as far as farm land, etc.
and i give credit where it's due-unlike you--the somali conquered the most land per ethnic group-although most is not suitable for farming, but there's still a lot of fresh farm land in southern somalia--60% of it is arable mashaaAllah.

I give credit when it's due, that Oromos do have the best land in the Horn of Africa. Unfortunately, you were not able to do much with it which is worse. If your people didn't - interrupt - us after we defeated the Habeshas, I am sure that 1/2 of Africa would be Muslim today, and that we would of had the richest civilization in Africa.

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:04 pm

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 9:57 pm
Sadacha, your people stopped the Islamization of Horn of Africa. Nothing to be proud about it. Today, your ruled by the people we would have made Muslims. Your people today are now mostly Christian and on the side of the Habeshas who conquered you.

I am Muslim myself bro, I posted that quote to show the oromos aint no punks or weaklings in the horn. we were known and our history shows it-we fought the mahdists of sudan in the west, beat them, beat the adalites, got the best land in the horn as far as farm land, etc.
and i give credit where it's due-unlike you--the somali conquered the most land per ethnic group-although most is not suitable for farming, but there's still a lot of fresh farm land in southern somalia--60% of it is arable mashaaAllah.

I give credit when it's due, that Oromos do have the best land in the Horn of Africa. Unfortunately, you were not able to do much with it which is worse. If your people didn't - interrupt - us after we defeated the Habeshas, I am sure that 1/2 of Africa would be Muslim today, and that we would of had the richest civilization in Africa.

we were stopped from developing our land, what was your excuse for not using the rich farm lands in southern somalia? somalis look down on farming, but that's not good. being a nomad is okay, but being a settled farmer is far more stable.

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:00 pm you're supposed to bring all your armies out when a foreign army is coming to conquer you. if somalis had the same weapons and manpower, they'd do the same thing to resist italy, the british, the french, etc.

Do you really think that Somalis could have defeated the Europeans, when these people destroyed the Ottoman Empire, Austrian-Hungary Empire, German Empire, Russian Empire? The whole damn world were colonized by these people! The whole Muslim world were occupied by these people! Somalis, on the grand scheme of things, are irrelevant. We could not stop the inevitable. Just like how Ethiopia eventually was colonized.

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:00 pm and it was 1935-1941 when italy occupied, not colonized, ethiopia.
but yes i get the point you're trying to make.

Whats the difference between being occupied and being colonized? Do you think that... any African would want some white person to be ruling them? The real reason why Ethiopia exists is because the Axis Powers (Japan, Naxi Germany, Italy) lost World War 2 against the Allied Powers (Britain, France, The United States and China). And the refugee Haile Selassie begged Britain for years to have his Empire back, and as a Christian, they gave it to him.

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:00 pm menelik did not try to hold territory. his laying claim to ogaden, and his raids, and his alliances that he built with some somali clans, is what justified/legitimized his claims to the ogaden later on. the ogaden is in a strategic area for both military and trade, this is the main reason menelik wanted it, btw. plus the resources there, like livestock.

Somali clans allying with Menelik???? Sir, but you seem to be completely confused about our history.

"In 1900, an Ethiopian expedition which had been sent to arrest or kill Hassan looted a large number of camels. Hassan in return attacked the Ethiopian garrison at Jijiga on 4 March of that year and successfully recovered all the looted animals. He gained great prestige in recovering the looted stock from the Ethiopians and he used it along with his charisma and powers of oratory to improve his undisputed authority on the Ogaden. To harness Ogaden enthusiasm into final commitment, Hassan married the daughter of a prominent leader and in return gave his own sister, Toohyar Sheikh Adbile, to Abdi Mohammed Waale, a notable elder."

Towards the end of 1900, the Ethiopian Emperor Menelik II proposed a joint action with the British against the Dervish. Accordingly, British Lt. Col. E.J. Swayne assembled a force of 1,500 Somali soldiers led by 21 European officers and started from Burco on 22 May 1901, while an Ethiopian army of 15,000 soldiers started from Harar to join the British forces intent on crushing the 20,000 Dervish fighters (of whom 40 percent were cavalry)."

1. Menelik struggled raiding Somali clans.
2. His control did not extend past Harar. Only until after the BRITISH defeated our state and conquered back Ethiopia from Italy, was Ogaden ever controlled.

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:00 pm we conquered and we got conquered. simple as that. some oromo were leading the armies, some were conquered by the ethio army. our history with ethiopia is a lot more complex than the one somalis had with ethiopia.

Did any of those people leading armies speak Oromo? Yes/no. Did those people consider themselves Oromo? Yes/no. What were the religion?

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:00 pm if somalis couldn't get guns from the ports, what makes u think oromos would be able to? come on, think before u type bro.

and do u think the abyssinians produced those guns in their territory? no....the oromo, well some of them, were close to the same situation as somalis, except for the fact that their land wasn't split between all those european powers. it all fell within one empire, for the most part, the ethiopian empire.

The only reason why we Somalis were defeated by the European powers is because they employed the first aerial bombardment in Africa on our Dervish State. And of course we could import guns, we had tens of thousands of guns that we either took from the Europeans or smuggled from our ports. In fact, we produced arms ourselves in one of our forts that hosted German diplomats.

"The Sayyid during his campaigns against the European and local powers built fortresses all over the Horn of Africa, and would move his armies from one city to another. In 1913, after the British withdrawal to the coast, the permanent capital and headquarters of the Dervishes was constructed at Taleh, a large walled town with fourteen fortresses. The main fortress, Silsilat, included a walled garden and a guard house. It became the residence of Mohammed Abdullah Hassan, his wives, family, prominent Somali military leaders, and also hosted several Turkish, Yemeni and German dignitaries, architects, masons and arms manufacturers. A large area to the northeast of Taleh was used for cultivation, while the Dar Ilalo towers were used as granaries."

Dear Lion 104,


1. I get it, I am not against what you are saying, but what I am saying is, if a foreign force comes, you're supposed to bring your best forces, whether you lose or win is another thing entirely.

2. There is an essential difference between occupation and colonization. Occupation is usually a very short-term thing, while colonization isn't. Look at Eritrea, they were truly colonized by Italy, you can see still the strong Italian influence in their land to this day; while the same cannot be said about Ethiopia. Do not get me wrong bro, Italians, believe it or not, treated Muslims and Oromos better than Haile Selassie did. But, I am just trying to be as honest as possible and call it how I see it.

3. ''The clans were historically in competition for the Ogaden's limited resources, and some Somalis sensibly joined and assisted Ras Makonnen's men to subdue common enemies. After the conquest, they ruled under orders from their Ethiopian patrons, who tended to garrison fortified forts and hamlets sited mostly at water holes. Thus, the constant campaigns established a pattern of indirect rule through clientage, used long thereafter to administer the Ogaden.''

[A History of Ethiopia
By Harold G. Marcus, PG 94]

and..

''Governor Makonnen, mean-while, raided deep into the Ogaden, where he fortified water holes and garrisoned them with nomadic Somali allies (thus establishing an Ethiopian claim to the Ogaden that would be invokved in the bitter border war of 1977).''

[Late Victorian Holocausts: El Nino Famines and the Making of the Third World
By Mike Davis, page 132]


Menelik could've expanded past harar, be honest, but he already had allies in the ogaden thanks to his commander makonnen, so he knew the empire could and would claim and take the ogaden later on, as they did.

menelik established the claim, then the empire took it later.

most of the oromo in the menelik army were christian, but some were muslim from wollo.
the wollo muslim oromo were the ones who protected him when he first escaped from the fortress of tewodros.
most spoke amharic, but many were bi-lingual. go to shewa, and you will not be able to distinguish between amhara and oromo in those areas.

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:22 pm

Lion104 wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:19 pm

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:04 pm



I am Muslim myself bro, I posted that quote to show the oromos aint no punks or weaklings in the horn. we were known and our history shows it-we fought the mahdists of sudan in the west, beat them, beat the adalites, got the best land in the horn as far as farm land, etc.
and i give credit where it's due-unlike you--the somali conquered the most land per ethnic group-although most is not suitable for farming, but there's still a lot of fresh farm land in southern somalia--60% of it is arable mashaaAllah.

I give credit when it's due, that Oromos do have the best land in the Horn of Africa. Unfortunately, you were not able to do much with it which is worse. If your people didn't - interrupt - us after we defeated the Habeshas, I am sure that 1/2 of Africa would be Muslim today, and that we would of had the richest civilization in Africa.

we were stopped from developing our land, what was your excuse for not using the rich farm lands in southern somalia? somalis look down on farming, but that's not good. being a nomad is okay, but being a settled farmer is far more stable.

Do you really think the fertile land in southern somalia are, empty?

Here is one of the dynasties built by the ajuuran based around the fertile land:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajuran_Sultanate

Not all somalis are nomads, 30-40 % of somalis are farmers. One clan (raxanweyn) are 20 % of somalia's population and are all farmers.

HashIII wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 10:04 pm The nation Ethiopia has always begging foreigners for help. First the begged the Europeans for help against the Portuguese, and then the begged the British to save them from the Italians, and then they begged for the British for Somali territories. Not only were they shameless beggars, their peasant armies were no match against Somali armies. They were crushed by the Adal or the terrorised by the egalitarian Dervish movement.

They have an incredibly pathetic history.

These Habeshas were lucky that we had to fight on five fronts wallahi.

-Against treacherous Somali clans
-Against Italy
-Against France
-Against Britain
-Against Ethiopia

Whilst they had the support of three of these people! If just the British weren't fighing against us, they wouldn't even have a state.

I think this paragraph sums it up:

Over the span of 21 years Sayyid was able to unite the peoples of Somalia from the Sanaag provinces in the northern hinterlands all the way south across the entire Jubba river. After being humiliatingly outmaneuvered and out-skilled in battle by the Somali Dervishes, the British were forced for the first time to bomb Africa from the Sky in 1920. Nothing truly captures the spirit of resistance and zeal displayed by the Somali Dervishes than the these very poetic words delivered by Hassan "I have no forts, no houses, no country. I have no cultivated fields, no silver or gold for you to take — all you can get from me is war, nothing else. I have met your men in battle and have killed them. We are greatly pleased about this. Our men who have fallen in battle have won paradise. God fights for us. We fight by God’s order. If you wish war I am happy; if you wish peace I am also content. But if you wish peace, go away from my country to your own. If you wish war, stay where you are!”

Nobody can doubt the bravery of the Somali or Oromo or Afar. All have histories of epic victories and conquests.
But us being divided and without foreign allies like Abyssinians had is what weakened us all. When i argue with Somali, it's like arguing with my cousins in Oromia, but cannot say the same for tigrayans that we literally fist fight in the diaspora lol.

Waachis wrote: Fri May 05, 2017 7:31 pm ''During the negotiations between Abyssinians and British officials for the cessation of the Ogaden and other Somali homelands, Ras Makonnen, Haile Selassie's father, even more strongly asked for more Somali territory up to Hargeisa, the Somaliland capial, to be included in that cession (Silberman 1961, 37-83).''

The Ogaden: Versus the Mythical Ethiopian Claim
By Jama Mohamed Ghalib-PAGE 47


btw-there are other sources that validate this.... in case you were in doubt

Looks like a lot of people got bit too emotional as usual on this topic. If we don't attack Waachis but address the subject, I believe we cannot only learn something but exchange educated views.

I will say this statement is not entirely accurate my Oromo friend.

First of all Ras Makonnen was never involved in any negotiations directly until he was appointed as the de-factor foreign minister of Menelik in much later date.

Even then he was not involved though he organised meetings.

Ras Makonnen conquered Ogaden 1891 while Harar went down 1886-1887. That's after Ras Darge and Ras Makonnen joined forces after the conquest of Arsi and Ras Darge crossed from the Awash river.

At this point Somaliland was under it's own movement with the Dervishes raiding British and Isaac interests. So the British began to relocate the capital few times.

Their goal later became to work with and protect their Isaac friends such as Sheikh Madar. Sheikh Madar himself left Harar for Somaliland and therefore it is likely the Abyssinians knew of him well.

Ras Makonnen expressed interest to expand beyond Ogaden into the Reserved Area (Haud) and SL but he was terrified of the British. Why wouldn't he though after all he knew what happened to Emperor Tewodros II and the battle of Magdala.

They went southeast towards Somalia where the Italians halted their advances and south where they overran the Borana.

Yes they were scared of the British but you can't say if it wasn't for the British the Abyssinians would over run Somaliland. The same factor you want to dismiss on Somaliland side was the main reason Abyssinians expanded. So if we drop the British from the picture, we have to drop all the Europeans that armed Menelik from the picture too.

That means the Abyssinians would still be on their mountains. The same Europeans that made their conquest possible, kept them at bay.

The negotiations between the new European phase and the Abyssinians, which now included Haud, began later after the British learned that the French were sailing up the white Nile after leaving Congo and were on their way to Sudan.

To stop their advances the British asked the Abyssinians for quick passage from Somaliland to Sudan via northern Ethiopia to stop the French. This chapter is called the Fashoda Incident.

Read about it.

So my friend no the Abyssinians would have never left the ruins of Menz, Magdala, Axum and Agame if it won't for the Europeans. If it came to Somalis and Abyssinians without any Europeans on any side----we all know who would win that battle. It's already in the history pages.

Haud was added to Ethiopia after WW2 in 1954 following the UN conference, where Haile Selassie cried. It was during this time that Ethiopia and SL officially demarcated their borders while Somalia and Ethiopia never did. The border between Ethiopia and Somalia is called Administrative Line and was marked during the Italian halt. It was never rectified. If you look at Google map you will see that between Somalia and Ethiopia the border is broken (dash lines) while between SL and Ethiopia it's solid.

And the negotiations were started by Menelik in Lake Tana---the current conference that takes place there every year (Tana conference) is tribute to that.

Menelik offered the British safe passage and aid against the Dervishes of Sudan (the Mahdi) if Britain agreed to give him more land (Haud, and access to Zeila port).

It was signed in the shores of Lake Tana (most likely Bahir Dar).

However the Italians later conquered the land (Ogaden, Harar, and Somaliland).

After the Allies defeated the Italians in WW2, the Abyssinians asked the Ogaden back along with Haud.

Wouldn't be surprised if it were part of it.