The greatest leaders of all time

[X.Playa]

The head choppers and their queen Saudi Carab time is limited.

Islamic extremism will be exterminated world wide. In my city the goatee Somali mullahs and their penguins looking wives are discarding the Arab dress the whites are hunting them like turkey.

I take great pleasure in seen Arab slaves so called muslims forcefully been dragged to the 21 century kicking and screaming like children. Another 20 years and we will break their backward religious mumbo jumbo.

Saudi Arabia sooner ir later will collapse and once that is done the Somali slaves will dress like Iran some of them are already dressing like pakies.

[Estranged]

i cant speak for lejusticeir but being anti-salafi does not make you pro shia.
in my case i consider both salafis and 12ver and ismaili shia to be outside the fold of ahlu sunna but still muslim.

Why do you consider Salafis outside the fold of Ahlus-Sunnah?

[paperino]

Why do you consider Salafis outside the fold of Ahlus-Sunnah?

gurey is very inconsistent and has memory issues (probably due to smoking/drinking). He considered the Shia outside the fold of Islam, but changed position.

[gegiroor]

i cant speak for lejusticeir but being anti-salafi does not make you pro shia.
in my case i consider both salafis and 12ver and ismaili shia to be outside the fold of ahlu sunna but still muslim.

Why do you consider Salafis outside the fold of Ahlus-Sunnah?

Gurey and FAH are deviant Sufis.

Lejusticier used to have an avatar that says "Wine and Spirits" in other forums

[paperino]

Gurey and FAH are deviant Sufis.

FAH is still young, easily susceptible to conspiracy theories and manipulations by certain individuals. Individually, he isn't independent. So, cut him some slack.

[gurey25]

i cant speak for lejusticeir but being anti-salafi does not make you pro shia.
in my case i consider both salafis and 12ver and ismaili shia to be outside the fold of ahlu sunna but still muslim.

Why do you consider Salafis outside the fold of Ahlus-Sunnah?

Ahlu sunna wa al jamaaca traditionally where identified as belonging to 3 schools of Aqeedah (theology) and the 4 madhabs
Ashcari, Maturidi and Zahiri/hanbali and Maliki, Shafici, Hanafi and Hanbali.
The Salafists/Wahabist converge and are essentially one and the same even though differ on some point.
What they agree on mostly is rejection of ta'wil the metaphoric interpretation which is essential and are literalists, they down play the signifigance of the 4 madhabs of law, saying they are taqlid, and are mostly against Ashcariyya aqeedah which most somalis traditionally were and most people who follow the shafici madhab are ashcariyya, al azhar is ashacari.

I follow ashcari aqeedah and salafist/wahabist are opposed to it, they think they know better than what was believed and practiced by the majority of muslims for centuries.
They are growing in size at an astronomic rate but they are still not the majority of what is called "sunni" muslims.
but they very well might be within our lifetime, 30-40 years .

[gurey25]

Why do you consider Salafis outside the fold of Ahlus-Sunnah?

gurey is very inconsistent and has memory issues (probably due to smoking/drinking). He considered the Shia outside the fold of Islam, but changed position.

If you dig through my posts you will find that on more thanone occasion i said that 12ver shia where on the edge of shirk, never said they were non muslim.
The ISmacili are even further away because of battiniyya ideology , some of the 12vers reject it.
Battinyya led to the creation of entirely different religions such as Druze, and Bahai and several more extinct sects that were clearly not muslim.

The Alawis are also not muslim, just chameleons.. they were the native people of the region, and when Christianity was ascendant
became crypt-christians gnostics. When islam came they used the battiniyya ideology of the ismacili missionaries and changed clothes again to shia, while keeping their ancient religion alive..

[paperino]

The Alawis are also not muslim

So, Assad isn't Muslim?

[gurey25]

If he is from the minority of alawi that actually know about their religion and practice it then no he is not muslim.
by the 1960's the vast majority of alawis were becoming secular and losing touch with their religion.
Allot of them were converting to sunni.
Hafez al assad had a sunni teacher and was studying sunni islam during the later stages of his life, he encouraged alawis to assimilate and at least pretend to be sunni, not shia.
Bashar al assad like allot of syrians from several sects and religions had a secular upbringing, but he knows more about sunni islam than alawism, because it is a dying religion that hardly anyone practices.

I have heard it straight from an alawi i knew in australia, apparently from his extended family only his grandmother knows anything about alawism, since he grew up around sunnis he assumed he was sunni.

[TheGrumpyGeeljire]

If he is from the minority of alawi that actually know about their religion and practice it then no he is not muslim.
by the 1960's the vast majority of alawis were becoming secular and losing touch with their religion.
Allot of them were converting to sunni.
Hafez al assad had a sunni teacher and was studying sunni islam during the later stages of his life, he encouraged alawis to assimilate and at least pretend to be sunni, not shia.
Bashar al assad like allot of syrians from several sects and religions had a secular upbringing, but he knows more about sunni islam than alawism, because it is a dying religion that hardly anyone practices.

I have heard it straight from an alawi i knew in australia, apparently from his extended family only his grandmother knows anything about alawism, since he grew up around sunnis he assumed he was sunni.

I thought Alawites believed Ali (Ra) was god, much like the Druze who believed the Shiite tyrant Hakim was god.

[paperino]

Theology and practices
Alawis are self-described Shia Muslims, and have been called Shia by other sources including the highly influential Lebanese Shia cleric Musa al-Sadr of Lebanon, and Iranian religious and political leader Ruhollah Khomeini.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawi#The ... _practices

Is gurey right in claiming Alawis are not Muslim, or Musa al-Sadr and Ruhollah Khomeini in stating they are indeed Muslim?

[Estranged]

Ahlu sunna wa al jamaaca traditionally where identified as belonging to 3 schools of Aqeedah (theology) and the 4 madhabs
Ashcari, Maturidi and Zahiri/hanbali and Maliki, Shafici, Hanafi and Hanbali.
The Salafists/Wahabist converge and are essentially one and the same even though differ on some point.
What they agree on mostly is rejection of ta'wil the metaphoric interpretation which is essential and are literalists, they down play the signifigance of the 4 madhabs of law, saying they are taqlid, and are mostly against Ashcariyya aqeedah which most somalis traditionally were and most people who follow the shafici madhab are ashcariyya, al azhar is ashacari.

I follow ashcari aqeedah and salafist/wahabist are opposed to it, they think they know better than what was believed and practiced by the majority of muslims for centuries.
They are growing in size at an astronomic rate but they are still not the majority of what is called "sunni" muslims.
but they very well might be within our lifetime, 30-40 years .

Wahhabi is a slur used against Salafis (astaghfirullah, as Al-Wahhab is one of the names of Allah Swt).

They have different sects among themselves also, so it's difficult (and often inaccurate) to make generalisations about them. Many Salafis follow the Hanbali Madhab, and from what I heard, Sheikh Ibn Uthaymeen (rh) was himself a Hanbali.

So do you mean anyone who doesn't follow one of the traditionally held 'aqeedahs or madhabs (there was more than 4 btw) is not from among Ahlus-Sunnah? The Athaari 'aqeedah that Salafis follow is the same one that was was followed by Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal (rh), and the Athaari/Ash'ari 'aqeedah debate existed long before them.

[LeJusticier]

Hafez al-Assad started sunnification in Alawite heartland. He built mosques in Alawite towns, prayed publicly, fasted and encouraged his people to do the same.

LeJ

[gurey25]

Wahhabi is a slur used against Salafis (astaghfirullah, as Al-Wahhab is one of the names of Allah Swt).

why do people try to deflect and change the subject with this line.
We call the ideology wahabiyya, the scholars that refuted called it that, his own brother shiekh suleyman ibn abdul wahabi referred
to it as madhab al wahabiyya.

They have different sects among themselves also, so it's difficult (and often inaccurate) to make generalisations about them. Many Salafis follow the Hanbali Madhab, and from what I heard, Sheikh Ibn Uthaymeen (rh) was himself a Hanbali.

Yes there is a broad spectrum of wahabiyya all of them claim to follow ibn hanbal, even the founder abdul wahab him self studied hanbali fiqh and aqeedah, so did his father and so forth.
Some of them do actually follow ibn hanbal but others pay lip service and like the founder of their ideology reject the 4 madhabs hanbali included. Your uthaimeen and ibn baz are among them.

You dont have to follow the 3 schools of aqeedah to be sunni, you can have your own but it should not differ too widely from the consensus of the majority of believers.
and you should not outright attack and reject the beliefs of the majority of muslims .

for example Imam Ghazali differed with ahscari aqeedah on a few minor points but he generally agreed with it and the other 2.

[Shirib]

Theology and practices
Alawis are self-described Shia Muslims, and have been called Shia by other sources including the highly influential Lebanese Shia cleric Musa al-Sadr of Lebanon, and Iranian religious and political leader Ruhollah Khomeini.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawi#The ... _practices

Is gurey right in claiming Alawis are not Muslim, or Musa al-Sadr and Ruhollah Khomeini in stating they are indeed Muslim?

Alawiite's if they actually believe in that are not Muslim. Their belief system is pure shirk. However most Alawi's don't even know their religion and being Alawi is more of a family tradition/culture.

Even shia's didn't consider them Muslim until the reign of the first Assad when he went to Lebanon and Iran and lobbied shia clerics to consider them shia so they could claim to be Muslim and assume power. The Iranians and Lebanese did so in order to gain political clout in Syria.