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Voltage wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:19 pm Where is our young Turk these days? 7

Kheyre stopped giving him money and so he stopped being a bot.

Voltage wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:40 pm No, don't even. Literally don't even attempt to bring up oral history. Even as an improvable theory which gives the facade of being an option.

I was wonder this false delusion myself until this year I now realize because by birth in the Somali ethnic group, I was born into a narrative of a lie.

But quite literally, it is not improvable but DISPROVABLE

1. Even compared to just 5-10 years ago, we now have enough genetic test cases of the Somali people with consistent results to unmoor the Arab Origins theory

2.I mean literally take stock of THIS. VERY. VERY. INTENSELY. The Arab origins theory is not just a part of Somali ethnicity, it is quite literally THE FOUNDATION.

3. It is categorically false. The consistent mid-70's to8O's percentile E3b roughly correlates to the Cushitic origin group of the Somali nation (others being Somali Bantu and Swahili/Arabized origins). This means nomadic majority Cushitic Somalis are not only non-Arab in paternal descent but completely unmistakable from and wholy part of the Cushtici Horners evolved and still existing hwre.

4. I think just THAT completely makes oral history irrelevant as a part of a scientific intellectual analysis of our history. Oral history is nice as stories under the camp fire in a premodern nomadic camp but complete irrelevant especially once the basic foundation has proven completely false.

SOME. OTHER. BASIC. THINGS. THAT. TELL. ORAL HISTORY TO BE GONE.

5. Just a 120 years ago we had European colonialists writing everything from field journal entries to official reports to British Parliament records where at least for example Jubbaland is concerned.

One thing or another could be unexplainable or a mistake or an oversight or misunderstandig or something like the "Bon Wagieda" irrelevance or writing Marehan is an Ogaden clan or Harti is a Marehan clan rtc rtc rtc.

But consistent, multi-person, multi-level reporting identifies Wardaay as Oromo, Gurre as a back migration Oromo clan, Massare which is today a Gugudlandhabe clan as an Oromo Borana clan, and even Ajuuraan Jubba as part and parcel back migration Oromo clan (funny thing TODAY in Mooyaale there is Ajuuraan Borana and Ajuuraan Somali).

We have the GASAARGUDE SULTAN explain multiple times from Boteggo to Ugo Ferrandi to Enrico Cerulli that "Gabaabweyn" are their "Swahili subjects" and that less than TWO GENERATIONS AGO (HIS GRANDFATHER), they broke off from Oromo and settled in Luuq after leaving the Welmel (where the Jubba/Ganaane meets Bali highlands)

BUT YET...

------Just a 100 YEARS LATER, the Gasaargude of Oromo ethnicity according to their Sultan with their different Swahili subjects of a Bantu origin the Gabaabweyn ARE BOTH DIGIL AND MIRIFLE Somali clan members
------the Ajuuraan and Massare very clear Oromo Borana Sabbo (Massare) and Oromo Barantuma Arsi are both Hawiye (although the unstable, not strongly rooted positions Ajuuraan sister or daughter something gave birth to and the Gugundhabe Saransoor Samaale brother to Hawiye or Gugundhabe Saransoor Hawiye member betrays the process of Somalization was forcefully hurried)
----AND THE VERY CLEAR Wardey Borana Oromo whom is not even once, I mean ONCE, even mistakenly called Somali then and very definitelively understood Borana Sabbo Oromo is today part of DIR Somali,

...

THIS. IS. MODERN. RECORDED. HISTORY

That completely disproves and even CONTEXTUALIZES the oral history which is completely malleable/adaptable/and especially FLEXIBLE in NEVER BEING ROOTED TO SCIENTIFIC ACCURACY but really just explains the things people had to evolve about their identity to survive and have livelihood in that environment

I mean quite literally THE DAROD GURI MIGRATION directly impacted the Somalization process there due to their sheer and overbearing (even oppressive) conquest of the Jubba Valley

The continuum in that particular chain of events didn't start with them but in that phasr started with Showa taking over Abbysinia and then what is today modern Ethiopia conquering multiple nations and polities.

But that continuum is also with origins even further back with two other phases being the Adal wars with Abbysinia and the advent/beginning of Islam.

Probably thr most imporant point:

The Rahanwayn as populary mischaracterized by the nomadic faradheer and even what I sourced about the Somalization in the Jubba and thr Shabelle ARE NOT OUTLIERS

THEY ARE NOT EXCEPTIONS.

EVEN THE DAROD HAVE BRANCHED OFF FROM A CUSHITIC POLITY WITH Oromo as mothership or foundation.

ALL SOMALIS OF THE CUSHITIC NOMADIC BACKGROUND ORIGINATE IN SOUTHERN ETHIOPIA IN WHAT IS TODAY Sidama


This is just fact along with what are possible migration details for examplr I use Darood as base of Somalis BECAUSE THEY ARE THE OLDEST RECORDED, THE LONGEST CONTINUOUSLY RECORDED, AND THE PRIMARY AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANT CONSISTENTLY IDENTIFIED WITH A Somali nation

Even the flexible "Sheekh Isxaaq" came 400 years later is quite literally nothing more than a reflection of the second phase of Somalization during thr Adal wars continuum which saw the bulk Northwestern Somalis

...born from the friction area of the early Somali/Darood and the Afar-Saho who 400 years earlier started breaking apart themselves from a single Somali/Darood/Afar/Saho tribe who migrated as an offshoot of the Oromo/Cushitic mothership in Sidama which would be giving labor to Somalis for the next 700 or so years

We are so completely oblivious to real history.

Nice tangent. Tie it back to the topic. Also, Hassan Galshiredle was MX Galbeed, how? You're one of the most underrated Somali scholars. As I get older, I see it.

You said there was never an Ajuuran Kingdom, which is up for debate but than you said “ was born into a narrative of a lie“ so are you finally telling us that your so called Sheikh Jabarti Darood fairy tail is all bogus LOL.

My dear Voltage just because you’re precious Darood and the Qaldaans yo north are lost and don’t know who their father is doesn’t give you the right to claim the same for the rest of us. We know you were Oromo/Habesha from the start.

D/P

Voltage your writings are long and sometimes going from topic to topic with out first getting to the point of the initial topic.

If I may chip in my two cents: My understanding, from reading some of the diaries of the European explorers who came to our land in the early 19th century is, that the name Somali is recent and a socio-economic name. Also not so different from the names like Tumaal and Biyomaal.
I also believe the name Somali, exclusively belongs to the Darood conglomerate and to a lesser extent the Sheik Isahaaq grouping.

An English Explorer by the name of Colonel J Curtenden who came to the Somali country in the 1840s, writes unequivocally and with so much conviction that the Essa-Somal and the Gadabiirsi are Gala tribes who accepted the Muhameddan (Muslim) religion. And that they were spared from slaughter by the Somalis closest to them. In this case the Habar Awal of Isaaq a.k.a. Edoor.

On a side note: There is no mention in history, either our folk lores or the English Men's writings that there was any sort of cooperation between Ogaden and Marehan during their quit distinct and independent expeditions to conquer their respective lands in present day Jubbaland.

Infact there is no mention of them ever encountering each other until much later in their settlement and consolidation in present day Jubbaland.
The Marehan and Ogaden had a well known border line area between them.
The Ogaden territory used to end at Serenley which I believe (you can correct me) is near Bardhere. Where Ogaden territory ends, the Marehan one started!

What Voltage is doing is a dishonest intellectual appropriation of historical context.

He wants to justify the illegal Mx encroachment on Absame land in Juboyinka which MSB initiated from 1969 till 1989.

Infact he claims that Mx came to Juboyinka before Cawliyahan is a laughable narrative if not an oxymoron statement.

Osob101 wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:41 pm You said there was never an Ajuuran Kingdom, which is up for debate but than you said “ was born into a narrative of a lie“ so are you finally telling us that your so called Sheikh Jabarti Darood fairy tail is all bogus LOL.

My dear Voltage just because you’re precious Darood and the Qaldaans yo north are lost and don’t know who their father is doesn’t give you the right to claim the same for the rest of us. We know you were Oromo/Habesha from the start.

Sheekh Darod is bogus. The origin story is bogus. The Arab origins is bogus.

But the people that come under the Darod apparatus particularly the people that come under Marehan and Koombe Kablalax (Harti and Geri Koombe), are the result of a real group of people WITHIN the people known as Somali who developed a Xeer contract (hence became a "clan/tribe") and have jjourneyed together and intermarried qnd migrated with each other and evolved together.

In fact they formed the first Xeer contract aka became the first Somali clan and this is substantiated by

1. They have the oldest recorded recognition as an identifiable Somali tribe
2. They have the longest continuous identification of a formed tribe rooted in a Somali identou
3. They have the STRONGEST unambiguous identification of a completely formed Somali tribe

But they are not Arab and origins creation storh is a myth.

balwarama wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:01 pm Voltage your writings are long and sometimes going from topic to topic with out first getting to the point of the initial topic.

If I may chip in my two cents: My understanding, from reading some of the diaries of the European explorers who came to our land in the early 19th century is, that the name Somali is recent and a socio-economic name. Also not so different from the names like Tumaal and Biyomaal.
I also believe the name Somali, exclusively belongs to the Darood conglomerate and to a lesser extent the Sheik Isahaaq grouping.

An English Explorer by the name of Colonel J Curtenden who came to the Somali country in the 1840s, writes unequivocally and with so much conviction that the Essa-Somal and the Gadabiirsi are Gala tribes who accepted the Muhameddan (Muslim) religion. And that they were spared from slaughter by the Somalis closest to them. In this case the Habar Awal of Isaaq a.k.a. Edoor.

On a side note: There is no mention in history, either our folk lores or the English Men's writings that there was any sort of cooperation between Ogaden and Marehan during their quit distinct and independent expeditions to conquer their respective lands in present day Jubbaland.

Infact there is no mention of them ever encountering each other until much later in their settlement and consolidation in present day Jubbaland.
The Marehan and Ogaden had a well known border line area between them.
The Ogaden territory used to end at Serenley which I believe (you can correct me) is near Bardhere. Where Ogaden territory ends, the Marehan one started!

In truth, I find the effect you have on me to be unpleasant which is why I have had a general policy to ignore you.

I was going to similarly ignore you but I have decided not to for the same reason I felt compelled to offer an apology just yesterday to one of the other names I suspect is yours.

Recently, and particularly this year, my entire perspective changed. Complete 180. You see for the first time, I actually INTERNALIZED Somali historiagraphy purely as a matter of intellectual/academic curiosity.

I became interested to write a book on Marehan on some of the topics that had animated my interest. The project led to structured, methodical, substantive, and sustained knowledge gathering (which is on going).

Basically for the first time, Somali historiagraphy was no longer a superficial, flimsy hobby defined almost in a "click bait" fashion.

Funny how callous motivations for knowledge result in callous disregard for how the information is received and then transmitted.

But when I got a very serious motivation, what I received was information so heavy, so rich, so complex, it quite literally slapped responsibility in me with how to transmit what is very clearly an heirloom.

To go back to you, I can't prove it and frankly I have never cared to, but I have seen you as Ogaden, as Isaaq, as Dir. Specifically at the root you to be Zumale and the many iterations of the identities you take on while diverse have all been carbon copy of each other.

Passive aggressive, all information used subversively even against the clan used under the identity (almost always either Isaaq or Ogaadeen all for the benefit of responding to an assumed vulnerability in the Dir-identity underbelly where Somali identity is concerned localized to Harerge.

Where Marehan is concerned----intense, unyielding, unchanging resentment. Loathing. The only clan in that category. With Xeraale in the 2000's and Luuq wars in the early 90's, I have learned to not be surprised by it ironically. In fact, I have observed Marehan to be very, very, very keen eyed to two clans which I have observed the clan always assumes hates them until the individual proves otherwise; Dir and Xawaadle.

It is the oddest thing. The two most enduring enemies have been Hiraab, particularly Habar Gidir, and Raxanweyn yet the ties and feelings are warm until the individual proves notherwise. But Dir and Xawaadle, Marehan have singled them out in a special category where Marehan as a default response expects resentment and evem hatred. It is weird, not even Isaaq. Marehan go into the Isaaq home unguarded.

So anyways, the person that I suspect you to be has proven the norm. You have not been qn exception.

So frankly I found it unpleasant and even taxing to engage never ending passive-aggression and lack of good faith.

And still yet, everything about your post that I am responding to but ignoring as a direct engagement.... Is exactly passive aggression and lack of good faith engagement and you know jt

Django wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:13 am What Voltage is doing is a dishonest intellectual appropriation of historical context.

He wants to justify the illegal Mx encroachment on Absame land in Juboyinka which MSB initiated from 1969 till 1989.

Infact he claims that Mx came to Juboyinka before Cawliyahan is a laughable narrative if not an oxymoron statement.

I don't think you understand yet I am no longer operating at Wikipedia sourced cyber flame wars.

Please, get a grip on yourself.

Voltage wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:20 am

Django wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:13 am What Voltage is doing is a dishonest intellectual appropriation of historical context.

He wants to justify the illegal Mx encroachment on Absame land in Juboyinka which MSB initiated from 1969 till 1989.

Infact he claims that Mx came to Juboyinka before Cawliyahan is a laughable narrative if not an oxymoron statement.

I don't think you understand yet I am no longer operating at Wikipedia sourced cyber flame wars.

Please, get a grip on yourself.

....

Voltage wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:20 am

Django wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:13 am What Voltage is doing is a dishonest intellectual appropriation of historical context.

He wants to justify the illegal Mx encroachment on Absame land in Juboyinka which MSB initiated from 1969 till 1989.

Infact he claims that Mx came to Juboyinka before Cawliyahan is a laughable narrative if not an oxymoron statement.

I don't think you understand yet I am no longer operating at Wikipedia sourced cyber flame wars.

Please, get a grip on yourself.

So are you saying you are getting revelation from God know?

Voltage

You went from saying we originally Sidama, Borana to we are the oldest recorded people and the first people to have Xeer LOL. Sade,Koombe Kabo Kabo. Just by looking at your names alone shows your origin. The entire Darood you are speaking of were none existent and irrelevant in our world. The First Darood we saw is Sayid Abdullah Xasan who ironically was fleeing felllw
Darood who he refers to as Gaalo Raac Marla meel naga fashionista.

Osob101 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:16 pm Voltage

You went from saying we originally Sidama, Borana to we are the oldest recorded people and the first people to have Xeer LOL. Sade,Koombe Kabo Kabo. Just by looking at your names alone shows your origin. The entire Darood you are speaking of were none existent and irrelevant in our world. The First Darood we saw is Sayid Abdullah Xasan who ironically was fleeing felllw
Darood who he refers to as Gaalo Raac Marla meel naga fashionista.

So here is where I am absolutely grateful for some of the benefits I derived from a more mature/serious way of looking at Somali historiagraphy.

The old me would respond ridiculously seeing only what looks to me as an insult, but really you are not insulting me because you aren't responding to ME. You are responding to a threat YOU feel. Here is where I try to redirect your attention so you can judge for your own self if there is actually a threat and whether your strategy of responding to it can be exchanged with something else.

My interpretation of your post is misunderstanding.i attribute the misunderstanding to not being on the same page where key terminology meanings are concerned. Basically, we haven't agreed to the same set of definitions I know realize which makes discussion impractical.

Being able to recall both your question about "Murti" and your explanation about non-Somali upbringing, I realize now I will have to make sure to be better at making sure we are in sync about key definitions. Side note: I am just going to say I will probably remember you for life for what you just contributed to me right now namely an understanding of the need for being on the same page about key terms whenever talking about Somali historiagraphy.

That aside, the problem here, at least to my vantage point, seems to be the word "Xeer."

It is not even about you only, I am still being surprised every single time about just how expansive the full weight of that word is.

Xeer isn't necessarily LAW. It isn't even necessarily DHAQAN/CULTURE.

In our modern world with State law or positive law whether secular (somali constitution) or divine (Shareecada) or even natural law by custom, it is almost always about the INDIVIDUAL and their relationship to law enforcing institution.

Not XEER, we are literally very, very, very unique in the world.

XEER IS NOT ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL. XEER IS NOT EVEN ABOUT THE GROUP. XEER IS NOT EVEN ABOUT PEOPLE.

XEER IS ABOUT PROPERTY RIGHTS.

THIS IS VERY, VERY, VERY KEY TO EVERYTHING ABOUT SOMALI CULTURE.

ESSENTIALLY XEER IS A CONTRACT FOR THE PROTECTION OF PROPERTY

Because Xeer is CONTRACT to protect property;

1. The loss/damage of property needs COMPENSATION.

I need my VALUE in LOSS pound for pound. Punishment is IRRELEVANT. It won't BRING BACK my property. Whipping you a 100 lashes for destroying or damaging my property does nothing MATERIALLY for me. Jailing you for 10 days does nothing MATERIALLY for me.


2. Because compensation is guaranteed, EVERY ONE must be INSURED against LIABILITY.

If a kid, crazy person, or extremely poor destroys or damages property and there was no way to get compensation, WHAT IS THE POINT of the contract unless such persons were BANISHED from the area?

To answer that question, UNIVERSAL INSURANCE has to exist to GUARANTEE COMPENSATION 100% OF THE TIME AGAINST ANY LIABILITY.

3. The insuring ENTITY is the DIYA-PAYING GROUP aka "REER"

The child, crazy person, etc with the rest of liability are COVERED UNDER "REER" who will compensate 100% of the time.

That way not only is compensation guaranteed, but there is also DIFFUSED/SHARED incentivization for good behavior and control/mitigation for risk.

But what if the Reer/WAS UNABLE to pay compensation or defaulted/disagreed/bailed on each other?

4. The JILIB/will provide INDEMNITY BOND for the REER as SURETY.

This is basically ASSURANCE for the contract/Xeer kn the event of the Reer's INABILITY to cover the required compensation.

It is not only INABILITY, but really for ANY time the compensation is extenuating or presents any difficulties for the Reer.

So your Diya is judged 10 camels and you have 8. At that point the indemnity in the Bond will automatically kick in and the Surety/Jilib will pay the 2 camels you owe.

But also, because of the severe difficulties to the Reer, what will MOST LIKELY happen is the Surety/Jilib will put forward more than the minimum (2) but less than total loss (8).

Maybe they will put up 6 camels where you will have 4 camels left to make sure you aren't bankrupted.

8 + 6 = 14 - 10 = 4

But why would the SURETY BOND be so generous in support?

5. BECAUSE THEY ARE YOUR KIN!!!!

When the contract was formed, your ancestor was insured by his family.

And the family was BONDED by the collective or their neighbors.

Over time, the collect married from each other, became maternal and paternal kin to each other, shared the same values and history, they moved and migrated with each other, and they took care of each other.

They didn't leave you to destitution and bankruptcy but instead semi-buyount with 4 camels out of charity. They did it because your health is the health of the CONTRACT/XEER which is what binded the INSURING AGENCY/KIN.

6. So you see DAROD AS ARAB SHEEKH IS FAKE.

BUT MAREHAN IS A REAL SET OF EXTENDED FAMILY WHO JOINED LINKS AND MARRIED AND FOUGHT TOGETHER AND SUPPORTED EACH OTHER SINCE THE FORMATION OF THE XEER THAT MADE MAREHAN.

SIMILARLY THEY ARE THE SAME WITH THE EXTENDED XEER THAT MADE DAROD THE GROUP.

THIS IS TRUE FOR ALL CLANS INCLUDING MUDULOOD, INCLUDING HAWIYE.

THE VERY NATURE OF THE EXISTING CLAN IS MADE TO EXIST BY THE PROCESS.

BUT IT DIDN'T START WITH A SHEEH DAROOD OR A SAMAALE.

THAT IS JUST A MYTHICAL CREATIONS ORIGIN STORY MADE TO ACCOUNT YEARS LATER FOR WHY SOMETHING REAL EXISTED (the Clan).

7. Finally, as for why I said "longest existing" and greatest documented is Darod group as Xeer polity, it is about the RECORD.

It doesn't mean MORE Somali, it means as a reference point, the development of the polity or contract occured the earliest


FOR EXAMPLE:

Futuh Habasha, written 500 years ago.

Marehan is recorded. Harti is recorded. Geri is recorded.

There is no record of, for example, Mudulood written at that time or any time before it. It just doesn't exist.

This doesn't mean Mudulood isn't Somali or is less Somali, it means the inference can be drawn that Marehan developed earlier qs did Harti Koombe as did Geri Koombr as a Xeer polity.

They STILL exist which means they not only did they develop earlier but they are also the longest existing (some clans in the Futuh have went extinct or been absorbed into new polities).

Does this make sense?

Let me understand here so because there is a book called Futu Habash written and the English translation of it mentions your so called clan name, it means Mudulood did not exist prior to that.

I actually wrote two more paragraphs here and deleted it because we are never going to see to eye when it comes to this. Referencing a translated version of a book as your source alone tell’s me all I need to know.

Osob101 wrote: Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:23 am Let me understand here so because there is a book called Futu Habash written and the English translation of it mentions your so called clan name, it means Mudulood did not exist prior to that.

I actually wrote two more paragraphs here and deleted it because we are never going to see to eye when it comes to this. Referencing a translated version of a book as your source alone tell’s me all I need to know.

Voltage,

I kinda agree with our Mudulood guest LMAO ( my lil joke). This is an academic discussion. So kindly give her some sources here or via private messaging.