Hard to ignore the link between Marehan origins & Eritrea; Akele Guzai in particular

[mmohamed12]

We are Somali and we are Darod. What we are is not the study nor the purpose of this topic. Even more importantly, what we are is not in confusion or unclear.

History however and illuminating the past is the purpose and it should be studied and critiqued without distinction or limitation.

Also, I never proved anything. I really just wanted to outline a broad set of circumstances that begs research that I have never seen done before.

Is the Buri Region of Eritrea our ancestral origins as Marehan?

You're making some very contradicting and nonsensical statements here. You're claiming to be Somali AND Darod. YET, you're saying Marehan predated "Somali" and possibly originated in Eritrea. You can't have it both ways. Either you're Somali and Darod OR you're not Somali nor Darod rather you predated Darod and you originated from some region in Eritrea.

Wadani, I have more then once explained my theory that Marehan formed the base of what became a number of our large kinfolk amd neighbors.This includes Darod.

In fact, I have explained before my theory that what we call "Somali" was really formed by 5 groups; 4 earlier population groups within one large Eastern Cushitic "ethnic group" and a 5th represented by the the Swahili coast of the Benadir that fused with the 4 to create what is today "Somali."

These 4 Cushitic groups found themselves moving slowly east together----natural Evolution drift---separated from the rest of the E Cushitic ethnic group they were part of, and because of this synergy and proximity shared the same changes in the E.Cushitic tongue which became Somali dialect and developed the same cultural responses to their shared move east which came to be Somali culture

1. Marehan/Muraayah/Murrah/Mara
2. Gurguure (as known in North/West)
   • Gorgaarte (As known in South/East)
3. Jiido(as known below the Shabelle River)
   • Jiidle (as known above the Shabelle River
4. Aweer/Areer
   • Hariir/Gariir/Garre/Gurre (as known in West)
   • Hubeer/Areer/Irir (as known on the Shabelle
   • Hariin/Hoon/Boon (as known on the Jubba)
   • Areen/Riin/Wa-Ribbi/Rendille (known in the far southwest
5. Swahili Extension into Somalia (Gibil Cad if light pigmented/Gibil Madoow if dark pigmented)
   • Rer Xamar/Rer Baraawe/Rer Marka (based on geography)
   • Shan Gamaas/Reer Maanyo (based on livelihood)
   • Geledi, Bagadi, Tuuni (based on political organization)

-
It is sort of like space science the way the Somali clan system developed;

Star----Fissure/Impact/Strike----Explosion----Flying particles----Land----Elemental attraction----Bonding----Repeat X Times-----New Stars are born or joined

My theory is the first 3 made what Darod, Dir, Nd Hawiye.

Depending on which group was rubbing against which side that neighborhood them and/or were being influenced by neighbors (Oromo, etc) ) or environments (on the sea side vs towards the plains vs on the plateau)----

----or political issues within the clan and even violent conflict----

----fissures and off shoots formed who bonding with similar entities in the same precarious situation (displaced from pack membership) formed new Xeer contracts with each other ("became new qabiils").

Your making bold statement my dude first you said marehan were Aksumites who originated in Eritrea particular the akele guzai region who predate somali and now your changing your theory saying marehan darood and somali at the same time who created Somalis including you can’t create and ethnic group that’s was already settled in region dir hawiye rahaweyne digil&mirifle were already hear before we came in the 7th century is what your saying in your theory my guy you can be darood,somali and Eritrean at the same time you gotta be one or the other

[Voltage]

Your making bold statement my dude first you said marehan were Aksumites who originated in Eritrea particular the akele guzai region who predate somali and now your changing your theory saying marehan darood and somali at the same time who created Somalis including you can’t create and ethnic group that’s was already settled in region dir hawiye rahaweyne digil&mirifle were already hear before we came in the 7th century is what your saying in your theory my guy you can be darood,somali and Eritrean at the same time you gotta be one or the other

7th century?

Let me guess; like the rest of our people you must also believe in something like the fantastic, all encompassing, magnanimous "Ajuuraan Kingdom" that built giant acquaducts and stone metropolises and navigated the seas including going to China----

----Except, there is no Ajuuraan kingdom. It never existed. There is no written record of it anywhere "contemporaneously" (as things were happening). Nothing in the Abbysinian records, nothing in accounts from Arabs (like Futuh Habasha or Ibn Batuta), there is no record of it from the Muslim Sultanate in Harar which was so aware of Somalis and even ruled over parts of them, there is no record from the Portuguese who entered Somali history from both the coast during their attacks on Mogadishu and the interior during Ahmed Gurey, and no record from the Omani or Zanzibar/Swahili coastal governments.

It literally doesn't exist beyond Wikipedia and what I.M Lewis and modern writers wrote describing the Hawiye mythical origins story.

The PROBLEM is that Ajuuraan Kingdom does not exist CONTEMPORANEOUSLY in any of the historic record written WHILE that history was happening.

But you know what I realized?

It is even Tunni as agents and purveyors of the Swahili authority on the Benadir coast and arch-enemies of the disparate factions of the cooperative that is really the IMAGE and basis used to craft the glue binding the mythical clan origins stories. Ajuuraan, you see, is the mask slapped on Tunni, in the story binding how Gugandhabe and Hiraab coalitions linked.

Gugandhabe did not join a root (i.e. Hirab). Gugandhabe coalesced in a coalition (Hawiye) of a coalition (Somalis); in their case specifically with similar coalescing disparate periphery groups, namely coastal (Habar Gidir, Abgaal, Wacdaan, etc).

Both Muduloood and Habar Gidir are cooperatives. Even "Abgaal" is a cooperative.

And even "Mataan" is a cooperative.

It includes results from friction at the periphery between two livelihoods (pastoralism and agriculture), three cultures (nomads, farmers, and coast), and three civilizations (Cushitic, Swahili/Arab, and Bantu) and that as late as the 1800's Mudulood was absorbing into the cooperative.

The written record on this that is the ONLY thing I base this on (i.e. not using any oral history.).

So yes the origin story of how Mudulood formed or the Imamship vis-a-vis defeat of an evil or nefarious enterprise (aka "Ajuuraan kingdom" ) and therefore liberation of the subpolities ("Hawiye") is TRUE and REAL.

The details are not real as "Ajuuraan Kingdom" never existed.

And you know why I brought that up? 7th century huh?

The Cushitic languages are at "Middle English" stage of separation (Middle Ages).

Somali and Oromo were probably not even separate languages 700 years ago and you believe the Somali ethnic group existed 1300 years ago.

Everything we assume about our history is myth creation.

To answer your question, your confusion results from lack of appreciation for the nuance required to dealing with history.

History isn't trying to proof or disprove something. Its aim isn't to give you identity or take it away from you.

There is a thin line between situating knowledge and knowledge being situated.

My position is this;

There is no group that is "more" Somali and they all started in the SAME unit and ended up in the SAME, but the PROCESS from A TO Z was incredibly complex journey.

[Voltage]

"Marehan formed the base of what became a number of our large kinfolk amd neighbors.This includes Darod."

That's a very bold statement and a theory. Darod didn't form Marehan is what you're saying, it's the other way around, Marehan created Darod? Is the way I understood from your theory correct? Where do the other "sons" of "Darod" such as Tanade, Kablalah, Owrtable, Ciise fit into your theory? Were they non-existent when Marehan existed?

I have theories about some, but think of it like evolutionary theory;

I know what we are now--

---and I have a theory about how we started---

----but we need to find enough artifacts/research to understand the process in the middle.

[WadaniggaBarakaysan]

"Marehan formed the base of what became a number of our large kinfolk amd neighbors.This includes Darod."

That's a very bold statement and a theory. Darod didn't form Marehan is what you're saying, it's the other way around, Marehan created Darod? Is the way I understood from your theory correct? Where do the other "sons" of "Darod" such as Tanade, Kablalah, Owrtable, Ciise fit into your theory? Were they non-existent when Marehan existed?

I have theories about some, but think of it like evolutionary theory;

I know what we are now--

---and I have a theory about how we started---

----but we need to find enough artifacts/research to understand the process in the middle.

Okay. Fair enough. Good luck with your research on this. Personally, it's pointless and waste of time. Somalis will never accept your theories even if you came with evidence.

[Voltage]

"Marehan formed the base of what became a number of our large kinfolk amd neighbors.This includes Darod."

That's a very bold statement and a theory. Darod didn't form Marehan is what you're saying, it's the other way around, Marehan created Darod? Is the way I understood from your theory correct? Where do the other "sons" of "Darod" such as Tanade, Kablalah, Owrtable, Ciise fit into your theory? Were they non-existent when Marehan existed?

I have theories about some, but think of it like evolutionary theory;

I know what we are now--

---and I have a theory about how we started---

----but we need to find enough artifacts/research to understand the process in the middle.

Okay. Fair enough. Good luck with your research on this. Personally, it's pointless and waste of time. Somalis will never accept your theories even if you came withl evidence.

The basis of your statement is misunderstanding.

1 This topic is a thought born from a layman's piqued interest.
2. Furthermore, my research isn't to prove or disprove where anyone comes from.
3. The aim of research should never be able "acceptance."

Finally, what started all of this is an observation I made in my Somali history hobby.

This observation is actually scientific and can be QUANTIFIED.

It has everything to do with what is at the center of this topic (our origins) but it isn't the random theorizing you assume from this topic (random every other Somali going hebel is from hebel).

In fact, my observation isn't even qualitative. It's not opinion or open ended debate about theory.

IT IS QUANTITATIVE. IF THE RESULT IS "TRUE"; ONE'S OPINION IS AS IRRELEVANT AS HAVING AN OPINION ON WHETHER 1 +1 = 2.

Yes, this is provable. On a scientific basis. When I said "argue a theory," you need to understand if you have read even one postI have ever written here, there is 0% probability that means I will be arguing anything to anyone based on "WAA LAY SHEEGAY."

[mmohamed12]

I have theories about some, but think of it like evolutionary theory;

I know what we are now--

---and I have a theory about how we started---

----but we need to find enough artifacts/research to understand the process in the middle.

Okay. Fair enough. Good luck with your research on this. Personally, it's pointless and waste of time. Somalis will never accept your theories even if you came withl evidence.

The basis of your statement is misunderstanding.

1 This topic is a thought born from a layman's piqued interest.
2. Furthermore, my research isn't to prove or disprove where anyone comes from.
3. The aim of research should never be able "acceptance."

Finally, what started all of this is an observation I made in my Somali history hobby.

This observation is actually scientific and can be QUANTIFIED.

It has everything to do with what is at the center of this topic (our origins) but it isn't the random theorizing you assume from this topic (random every other Somali going hebel is from hebel).

In fact, my observation isn't even qualitative. It's not opinion or open ended debate about theory.

IT IS QUANTITATIVE. IF THE RESULT IS "TRUE"; ONE'S OPINION IS AS IRRELEVANT AS HAVING AN OPINION ON WHETHER 1 +1 = 2.

Yes, this is provable. On a scientific basis. When I said "argue a theory," you need to understand if you have read even one postI have ever written here, there is 0% probability that means I will be arguing anything to anyone based on "WAA LAY SHEEGAY."

Your still Making theories with no source and don’t make sense how did you come up with all this but with no evidence your statements are baseless either come with either come evidence next time

[Voltage]

Tsk tsk---I sense hostility which is a consequence of escalation. Why I don't know---

To clarify once again generally, I have not mentioned any aspect of what I intend to research besides the fact it has to do with our origins.

Beyond that, this topic was started because I am as much puzzled as anyone else about a topic and I literally listed why that is.

What else has made you hostile?

That Ajuuraan Kingdom never existed because it is not in any record? Or similarly the Somali people never existed in the 7th Century?

The onus for evidence are on those making the claim??? The person that needs convincing is the person who says there is no record anywhere of this.

[mmohamed12]

Tsk tsk---I sense hostility which is a consequence of escalation. Why I don't know---

To clarify once again generally, I have not mentioned any aspect of what I intend to research besides the fact it has to do with our origins.

Beyond that, this topic was started because I am as much puzzled as anyone else about a topic and I literally listed why that is.

What else has made you hostile?

That Ajuuraan Kingdom never existed because it is not in any record? Or similarly the Somali people never existed in the 7th Century?

The onus for evidence are on those making the claim??? The person that needs convincing is the person who says there is no record anywhere of this.

ajuraan was founded in 12/century not in the 7th centuries before that is sultanate of Mogadishu majority of the Muslim kingdoms in horn were founded in 12/14th century your confused my guy why you keep bringing up ajuraan

[Voltage]

I explained everything. Kindly reread our discussion brother.

Particularly starting from the response you gave after I said "We are Somali and we are Darod. Historically, however, it is possible Marehan made Darod or that Marehan is possibly from Akele Guzai. "

1. A nuance, highly evolved understanding of history would not have given your response.
2. I realized then you still had not gotten to a place of appreciating history as a craft. In fairness, I was like that until very recently. Most people will stay that way.
3. So to identify that about yourself to you---I brought out my redline; "Ajuuraan Kingdom."
4. Up to your last response (Ajuuraan started 10th/whatever century), you are still unaware of what that says about your understanding of history.
5. Ajuuraan never existed. It is not in any records. It is not in Mogadishu Sultanate records. It is not in Swahili records. It js not in Omani or Arab records. It is not in Harar/Adal records. It is not not even in the Futuh. It is not in Portuguese records. It is not in any of the Ethiopian records. It didn't exist. You go to Wikipedia and it is built up like the Roman empire. However you read the sources and none of them are contemporaneous records. They are post-colonialism writes explaining clan mythical origins stories chiefly inspired by I.M Lewis as a cultural guide.

If you fail "Ajuuraan Kingdom" test--------it means you need to start at" A, B, C" level first understanding history as a craft and then learning what epistemology in history.

So really what I have beem trying to do is inspire you to realize your question to me was about missing tools you need to gather in order to even understand history beyond the surface.

[mmohamed12]

I explained everything. Kindly reread our discussion brother.

Particularly starting from the response you gave after I said "We are Somali and we are Darod. Historically, however, it is possible Marehan made Darod or that Marehan is possibly from Akele Guzai. "

1. A nuance, highly evolved understanding of history would not have given your response.
2. I realized then you still had not gotten to a place of appreciating history as a craft. In fairness, I was like that until very recently. Most people will stay that way.
3. So to identify that about yourself to you---I brought out my redline; "Ajuuraan Kingdom."
4. Up to your last response (Ajuuraan started 10th/whatever century), you are still unaware of what that says about your understanding of history.
5. Ajuuraan never existed. It is not in any records. It is not in Mogadishu Sultanate records. It is not in Swahili records. It js not in Omani or Arab records. It is not in Harar/Adal records. It is not not even in the Futuh. It is not in Portuguese records. It is not in any of the Ethiopian records. It didn't exist. You go to Wikipedia and it is built up like the Roman empire. However you read the sources and none of them are contemporaneous records. They are post-colonialism writes explaining clan mythical origins stories chiefly inspired by I.M Lewis as a cultural guide.

If you fail "Ajuuraan Kingdom" test--------it means you need to start at" A, B, C" level first understanding history as a craft and then learning what epistemology in history.

So really what I have beem trying to do is inspire you to realize your question to me was about missing tools you need to gather in order to even understand history beyond the surface.

I totally agree with majority of Somalis when doing research they only read white Eurocentric scholars like i.m Lewis when they don’t realize Is that these white scholars and half of what they are saying myths and haplogroups and ancestory is a big lie and made up I always knew Somalis had different origins from other places this whole Somali thing was invented in the colonial times and darood never existed neither did isaaq hawiye its all made up and do believe you on the marehan having Origins in Eritrea but you will see people deny it and saying we’re not habeshi when habeshis are a minority in Eritrea

[adamnorr]

Marehan are adali.
They were in Negus and. Second HQ of adal was in Negus area were Africa's first mosque at

[Azkaban]

Marehan are adali.
They were in Negus and. Second HQ of adal was in Negus area were Africa's first mosque at

Sheikh Sade’s tomb is in Eritrea and island near massawa we establish the makhzumi dynasty,wali asma dynasty,abadir dynasty and last the Ali dynasty of harar marehan are maternally mixed with habeshi,hejazi Arabs Circassian,and other European stuff through marriages between marehan nobleman and foreign noble women I heard adalites married Sherri fans of Mecca daughters

[MidriGeez]

I said it here many years ago, Many of the somali Qabil are originally From Eritrea. Especially that Akulegezay/Semhar region. Somali tend to forget that Punt capital was there " Qohoito " stretching all the way southward, Eritrea anciently was an Afar land before the migration waves of the Belew ( Beja ), Nilotic tribes like Kunama and Nara and most recently the Arab rashaida. In fact i also said somali were originally from Eritrea who Migrated southward around the Time of the D'mt Kingdom ( which was before the Axumite Era )

[Azkaban]

I said it here many years ago, Many of the somali Qabil are originally From Eritrea. Especially that Akulegezay/Semhar region. Somali tend to forget that Punt capital was there " Qohoito " stretching all the way southward, Eritrea anciently was an Afar land before the migration waves of the Belew ( Beja ), Nilotic tribes like Kunama and Nara and most recently the Arab rashaida. In fact i also said somali were originally from Eritrea who Migrated southward around the Time of the D'mt Kingdom ( which was before the Axumite Era )

Only darood are from Eritrea especially the akulegezey/seminar regions the rest of Somalis are Oromo Bantu origins

[MidriGeez]

I said it here many years ago, Many of the somali Qabil are originally From Eritrea. Especially that Akulegezay/Semhar region. Somali tend to forget that Punt capital was there " Qohoito " stretching all the way southward, Eritrea anciently was an Afar land before the migration waves of the Belew ( Beja ), Nilotic tribes like Kunama and Nara and most recently the Arab rashaida. In fact i also said somali were originally from Eritrea who Migrated southward around the Time of the D'mt Kingdom ( which was before the Axumite Era )

Only darood are from Eritrea especially the akulegezey/seminar regions the rest of Somalis are Oromo Bantu origins

especially some of the sub clans of the Darood like the ismaili jeberti, im 99% sure they came from the town of Zula.