SomaliNet Forums

Jabuutawi wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 2:47 am Mariixman, whether you are hostile to the Djibouti government or bestie is of no concern to me. Ditto with whether you detest IOG or not. The people are near and dear to me, though.

As for IOG 'stealing' the 4.5 idea, I have no clue about it and nor can I offer an educated answer. He may very well have, after all, he does still wear the Mao suit. Somalia and communism were a thing back in the 1970's. This 'Abo' shtick stems from that era.

ReturnOfMariixmaan wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 12:47 am

Gubbet wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 11:40 pm No, I think the opposite about pragmatism actually. 95% of change results directly from pragmatism, the last 5% when the finished car is going for that paintjob and smooth polish, is idealism.

But to be honest, I don't think you are pragmatic at all though bro. Nor really even an idealist... in fact your resignation in the last two posts about not going against the grain is firm evidence of this observation.

You are a "realist" and what you believe in is the real (assumed or even wanted) "power" of tradition. Saddam, we call that a Conservative.

You are a Conservative. A conservative is a resistanr force to change while pragmatism vs idealism are competing methods for change.

I will give you one example; the Janan Beled-Xaawo reception. By now we know it directly effected the politicization of the security forces that led to the scenes in Mog.

I absolutely foresee the possibility and in fact, we still are underestimating the true extent of its impact---but the thing js, this was not difficult or unique to predict. You knew in your heart the perception it created, but the truth is like 99% of Marehan, you didn't care. No Somali group would have either... because the traditional Somali way of doing things informs, it was good for Marehan as assumed and that was all there is to jt.

I actually reached my position BY EXPLICITLY ASKING MYSELF WHAT WOULD BE THR MOST PRAGMATIC COURSE.

-Not realism informed by tradition (he is a strong warlord, people die all the timeblah blah let's give the sonomabitch a party)

and

-Not idealism informed by lalaland (don't meet him or accept a surrender, get the amnesty and this and that and make splace)

but pragmatism; what would be the most pragmatic course and you know what I thought? Something that

1. Brings peace to Marehan
2. Does not offend the nation
3. And can be net positive in the elections

The only way that could happen was

1. Compromise behind the scenes (assure him, his freedom will be respected amd guaranteed)
2. Once Agreement was reached, receive him AT THE BORDER in a solemn and serious manner
3. Have him voluntarily extend his hands for arrest immediately flyijg him out to Mog
4.Go through a month long court process, while his boys are received back into society welcoming them
5. Publicly in video court judgement, have the judge make the argument for why goverment reached a plea deal (how many cars and guns he brought, his promise for good behavior, recognition of his influence to support Reconciliation, etc)
6. Send him back to Gedo to home coming he wasn't supposed to have in the beginning


I mean I wish someone in Farmaajo's government could have thought about this.

I actually described this on the day of the surrender id you recall and now IN HINDSIGHT, my God am I even more sure it would have been a million times better than what happened.

It didn't require more money, or time, or evem effort... It only required A PRAGMATIC INTENTION EXISTING AMONG THE CHOICES ORIGINALLY PRESENTED to Farmaajo.

You see Saddam, the Somali government is a lot like the country and people of Somalia; there is not a lot of pragmatism in approach and too much rigidity, inflexibility, and conservative approach and methodology.

I’m a libertarian actually. A very keen libertarian that’s for property rights, freedom of speech, individualism and positive rights of the people. The Somali people have a right to freedom in political and social affairs. The Somali people have a right to set the rules and laws of their country. Whether that is based on our traditional cultures and civilization or one based on another culture. I’m big on natural rights and respecting the only mode of justice and that’s Xeer. Xeer can be the the glue that ties to Somalis to a new understanding of civilization. The only problem it has, it was never codified in a Napoleonic code way. It’s jungle rules and can’t build a civilization with that thinking.

I’m conservative yes in limiting foreigners and their meddling and Somalis have full autonomous control of their lands and institutions. Yes, I’m a bit “Blood and Soil” a la Carl Schmitt - but I’m progressive in woman rights, protection of the weak, the promotion of social good in having food, health, education for the masses. Those progressive values I’m not gonna lie are informed by my Kacaan sympathies but no I’m definitely not a leftist in any sense ngl. However, I’m open to their suggestions if works within the Xeer customs of the people. Also, my view maybe informed by my nomadic background and doesn’t take into account the philosophical views of the agriculturalists in our community with their own laws, and language and customs - the Reewin (Rahanweyn). My Somali chauvinism is open to all Somali strata and classes, that’s the populist aspect of it. What makes me regressive however is the current politics and again that’s without having a “Grand Xeer” that speaks to the times and settles the political disunity.

The culture should be built and it must be built to create unity and social consensus. Somalia needs a cultural revolution - this is where I’m influenced by Maoist thought and Siad Barre resonates with me the most - how he united a people to bring forth a epoch of industry and cultural renaissance that still felt today and fought by those who felt left out. The best path to peace and civilization is law that is willfully accepted and swiftly executed. That’s a modern Xeer with enforceable authority. But I’m a libertarian in the sense I don’t want tyranny but I want order so the Somali civilization can grow.

I blame cosmopolitanism that was aped by Europhiles that lead to swamp of foreign countries and foreign troops that have taken the liberty of our people and their autonomy that keeps them weak. I’m a reactionary to the Manifesto group and Abdullahi Yusuf/Ali Mahdi school of interventionism by foreign allies. Yes and proudly so! However, I struggle with this myself I’m not gonna lie - my reactionary instinct can be seen as maximalist and fascistic - again that’s my natural revulsion of the ideology I despise nothing more and less. The new generation are builders. But to build you must get rid with those with regressive destructive thinking. You know me well, I ape my enemies but I’m far more sophisticated than them. That’s why they don’t know how fight back. This game is far more dense and cunning than what they played the last 30 yrs than a young man who rewrote the rules in front of them. I’m a disruptor, that’s what change leaders do. Do you understand me?

Jabuutawi wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 2:14 am
@Guddet, sxb talo meesha kuma heesiday iskaga noqo magaci hore Let me ask you a serious question, did you major in Pol-Sci or one of the other disciplinary in social sciences in college? Truthfully, 9/10 folks don't bother finishing reading your posts, maybe that 1/10, which Mariixman belongs to, responds to you in detail. No hard feelings brother.

nine wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:03 am So Voltage is one of those delusional Africans who believes American neoliberalism is ideal for everyone.

Gubbet wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:05 pm

ReturnOfMariixmaan wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 12:47 am

Gubbet wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 11:40 pm No, I think the opposite about pragmatism actually. 95% of change results directly from pragmatism, the last 5% when the finished car is going for that paintjob and smooth polish, is idealism.

But to be honest, I don't think you are pragmatic at all though bro. Nor really even an idealist... in fact your resignation in the last two posts about not going against the grain is firm evidence of this observation.

You are a "realist" and what you believe in is the real (assumed or even wanted) "power" of tradition. Saddam, we call that a Conservative.

You are a Conservative. A conservative is a resistanr force to change while pragmatism vs idealism are competing methods for change.

I will give you one example; the Janan Beled-Xaawo reception. By now we know it directly effected the politicization of the security forces that led to the scenes in Mog.

I absolutely foresee the possibility and in fact, we still are underestimating the true extent of its impact---but the thing js, this was not difficult or unique to predict. You knew in your heart the perception it created, but the truth is like 99% of Marehan, you didn't care. No Somali group would have either... because the traditional Somali way of doing things informs, it was good for Marehan as assumed and that was all there is to jt.

I actually reached my position BY EXPLICITLY ASKING MYSELF WHAT WOULD BE THR MOST PRAGMATIC COURSE.

-Not realism informed by tradition (he is a strong warlord, people die all the timeblah blah let's give the sonomabitch a party)

and

-Not idealism informed by lalaland (don't meet him or accept a surrender, get the amnesty and this and that and make splace)

but pragmatism; what would be the most pragmatic course and you know what I thought? Something that

1. Brings peace to Marehan
2. Does not offend the nation
3. And can be net positive in the elections

The only way that could happen was

1. Compromise behind the scenes (assure him, his freedom will be respected amd guaranteed)
2. Once Agreement was reached, receive him AT THE BORDER in a solemn and serious manner
3. Have him voluntarily extend his hands for arrest immediately flyijg him out to Mog
4.Go through a month long court process, while his boys are received back into society welcoming them
5. Publicly in video court judgement, have the judge make the argument for why goverment reached a plea deal (how many cars and guns he brought, his promise for good behavior, recognition of his influence to support Reconciliation, etc)
6. Send him back to Gedo to home coming he wasn't supposed to have in the beginning


I mean I wish someone in Farmaajo's government could have thought about this.

I actually described this on the day of the surrender id you recall and now IN HINDSIGHT, my God am I even more sure it would have been a million times better than what happened.

It didn't require more money, or time, or evem effort... It only required A PRAGMATIC INTENTION EXISTING AMONG THE CHOICES ORIGINALLY PRESENTED to Farmaajo.

You see Saddam, the Somali government is a lot like the country and people of Somalia; there is not a lot of pragmatism in approach and too much rigidity, inflexibility, and conservative approach and methodology.

I’m a libertarian actually. A very keen libertarian that’s for property rights, freedom of speech, individualism and positive rights of the people. The Somali people have a right to freedom in political and social affairs. The Somali people have a right to set the rules and laws of their country. Whether that is based on our traditional cultures and civilization or one based on another culture. I’m big on natural rights and respecting the only mode of justice and that’s Xeer. Xeer can be the the glue that ties to Somalis to a new understanding of civilization. The only problem it has, it was never codified in a Napoleonic code way. It’s jungle rules and can’t build a civilization with that thinking.

I’m conservative yes in limiting foreigners and their meddling and Somalis have full autonomous control of their lands and institutions. Yes, I’m a bit “Blood and Soil” a la Carl Schmitt - but I’m progressive in woman rights, protection of the weak, the promotion of social good in having food, health, education for the masses. Those progressive values I’m not gonna lie are informed by my Kacaan sympathies but no I’m definitely not a leftist in any sense ngl. However, I’m open to their suggestions if works within the Xeer customs of the people. Also, my view maybe informed by my nomadic background and doesn’t take into account the philosophical views of the agriculturalists in our community with their own laws, and language and customs - the Reewin (Rahanweyn). My Somali chauvinism is open to all Somali strata and classes, that’s the populist aspect of it. What makes me regressive however is the current politics and again that’s without having a “Grand Xeer” that speaks to the times and settles the political disunity.

The culture should be built and it must be built to create unity and social consensus. Somalia needs a cultural revolution - this is where I’m influenced by Maoist thought and Siad Barre resonates with me the most - how he united a people to bring forth a epoch of industry and cultural renaissance that still felt today and fought by those who felt left out. The best path to peace and civilization is law that is willfully accepted and swiftly executed. That’s a modern Xeer with enforceable authority. But I’m a libertarian in the sense I don’t want tyranny but I want order so the Somali civilization can grow.

I blame cosmopolitanism that was aped by Europhiles that lead to swamp of foreign countries and foreign troops that have taken the liberty of our people and their autonomy that keeps them weak. I’m a reactionary to the Manifesto group and Abdullahi Yusuf/Ali Mahdi school of interventionism by foreign allies. Yes and proudly so! However, I struggle with this myself I’m not gonna lie - my reactionary instinct can be seen as maximalist and fascistic - again that’s my natural revulsion of the ideology I despise nothing more and less. The new generation are builders. But to build you must get rid with those with regressive destructive thinking. You know me well, I ape my enemies but I’m far more sophisticated than them. That’s why they don’t know how fight back. This game is far more dense and cunning than what they played the last 30 yrs than a young man who rewrote the rules in front of them. I’m a disruptor, that’s what change leaders do. Do you understand me?

Gubbet wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 6:22 pm

nine wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:03 am So Voltage is one of those delusional Africans who believes American neoliberalism is ideal for everyone.

I'm not a neoliberal. A neoliberal is Bush's firsr admin Iraq War group... Chebey, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld. I call neoliberals thr Children of the Crusades; it's the judeo-christian way or death!

I am a classic liberal of the Enlightenment/Ottoman Turkey style... Freedom of conscience, assembly, speech, inalienable rights to life and liberty, free expression, respect for plurality and tolerance for difference in the public sphere constructive pluralism in internafional relations, etc.