Dacare, Dooxada Nugaal - the most northern Mareexaan town?

[Sbashi]

You guys remind me of my old rer Axmed informent; the almost 100 year old ayeeyo who once told me "ayeeyo inaan barakaysanahay Qur'aankaa ku tusayo, AR-RAXMAAN iyo MA-RAXMAAN maxsy kala yihiin, Ilaahaa na barakeeyey. "

Well another thought she shared in the course of conversation while talking about the Mohamed Da'ud death, the charge against Hawlraarsame, and the punishment was how Mareexaan "knows" not all Hawlraarsame accepted the punishment, in fact there were some that bitterly escaped off (and why wouldn't they honestly considering the extreme punishment) and joined many different Somali groups."

Then she added "the people that HATE Mareexaan the most in a number of clans, including Northeast and the Shabelle Valley waa nimankii waagii carro la tagay. "

Damn that history is just sad, imagine paying the mag of a king despite not having killed him, and then on top of that getting attacked by all MX and then excommunicated. I believe it was just down to jealousy since Howrarsame were the richest and most powerful among MX at that time.

Cuquboto ku socoto MX, I say watch out for .5 clans, OG and MJ in particular.

Who killed him then if not hawraarsame?

[NGM]

You guys remind me of my old rer Axmed informent; the almost 100 year old ayeeyo who once told me "ayeeyo inaan barakaysanahay Qur'aankaa ku tusayo, AR-RAXMAAN iyo MA-RAXMAAN maxsy kala yihiin, Ilaahaa na barakeeyey. "

Well another thought she shared in the course of conversation while talking about the Mohamed Da'ud death, the charge against Hawlraarsame, and the punishment was how Mareexaan "knows" not all Hawlraarsame accepted the punishment, in fact there were some that bitterly escaped off (and why wouldn't they honestly considering the extreme punishment) and joined many different Somali groups."

Then she added "the people that HATE Mareexaan the most in a number of clans, including Northeast and the Shabelle Valley waa nimankii waagii carro la tagay. "

Damn that history is just sad, imagine paying the mag of a king despite not having killed him, and then on top of that getting attacked by all MX and then excommunicated. I believe it was just down to jealousy since Howrarsame were the richest and most powerful among MX at that time.

Cuquboto ku socoto MX, I say watch out for .5 clans, OG and MJ in particular.

Who killed him then if not hawraarsame?

the mother of assassination of course, did you think he was boqor just for MX ? he was killed by his underlings who blamed it on Howrarsame.

[Gubbet]

Sbashi, how are you Marehan and going to ask that question? From the first day I became acquainted with this issue to this very topic, the theory has never failed to be mentioned that Hawlraarsame was framed by a particular group.

NGM, it is interesting this topic has attracted ironic attention. Have you ever heard of the story about Toljecle? Particularly about why his name is Toljecle instead of Habar Jeclo?

Notice also, the Majerteen Saleebaania cumbustion goes into Toljecle.

100% of the story about Toljecle myth origins plus overthrowing his "Boqortooyo" to start the modern Isaaq sultan

+ the Majerten random development of the modern Maxamuud Saleebaan sultan take over in the Northeasft...

+ The Wiil-waal story overthrowing the Jidwaaq tribal leadership to takd over the Absame leadership

+ The, the southern Hiraab Imaamship over throwing the Ajuuraan tribal leadershio to take over the Hawiye leadership

100% of the stories are carbon copy ripoffs of the Marehan Boqor Mohamed Da'uud assassination and the Hawlraaraame extraordinary punishment. 100% rip off.

But get this;

1. In the Marehan story, the central figure Mohamed Da'uud is killed and there is no "biggening" epoch but a bitter destruction

-Yet in all the other groups, this is the beginning of thejr Sultan Guuleed or their Wiilwaal or their Saleevaan5 Sultan or Imaamship

2. The Marehan story is singularly unique for the CONTINUITY of a huge cultural artifact that mindbogglingly developed against the rules of Somali culture meaning something extraordinary and real must have led to it

--Namely the very existence of Hawlraarsame History. All other Somalis practice SHEEGAD or incorporation (you adopt to gaun5 more men, resources, fighting power), yet Marehan is the only Somali clan in history to practice the opposite, TAKXIR, where instead of incorporation, they took one of their own whom they recognize is born of the same blood and they excommunicated.

3. Finally all the other clans DO NOT share same aspects of the story or evem the names, yet EVERY ONE OF THE VERSIONS is represented in the Marehan story and the names, meaning they are all derivatives of Marehan

It is like the DNA of two siblings and the parents. The kids don't share all of each other's DNA, although they do share about half. And they don't have all of the DNA that their parents have, they only have a small subset of it. Yet all of what they have, every single piece of DNA they have is reprrsented in the Parents DNA; meaning their parents havr it because it came.from them..

[Gubbet]

Personally, I am at the point where I find it extremely logical to be intellectually suspicious whether the Mohamed Da'uud Marehan and Hawlraarsame may have even been central to the veru development of the Somali tribal system.

Including even the development of the concept of "Madhibaan."

Furthermore I actually find it logical to be intellectually suspicious whether this may have been thr first "1991" type of factional fighting

AND THAT FACTIONS WITHIN MAREHAN REPRESENTED IN THR HAWLRAARSAMR CAMP THEMSELVES EVEN RECONSTITUTED THEIR PREVIOUS MEMBERSHIP IN THE MAREHAN RULING ENTITY THROUGH THEIR OWN "FORMATION" ORGANIZED AROUND THE CIRCULAR PERIPHERY OF MAREHAN.

So the Hawlraaraame camp which was defeated at that time not all surrendered.

And in fact, rather than surrendering, they may have even rebuilt the system they were exiled from among other groups they banded together on the periphery of Marehan.

And LEGITIMIZING this formation, took the details of the situation which led to their exile (the deafh of Mohamed Da'ud, etc) AND REFRAMED/TOLD it in their own image and perspective.

You have no idea all the things I lookrd at come to this stsrk naked, wide eyed, shocking suspicion.

[Khalid Ali]

Mahoka exactly he said they were ex communicated from the clan as in banished excluded. Forced to marry other midgaans probably for centuries. Their blood is polluted with midgaan blood. Now they are allowed back so they can infect the rest of the marexaan with their midgaan blood. It was better for marexaan to keep these clans as midgaan and never allow them back. Hada waad isku qasanteen.

[Gubbet]

Khalid, it is 2021 and DNA testing has already completely shattered a serious aspect of clan mythology----and ironically, of àll of the main clans of the Somali people, including Digil and Mirifle who self-identify as land rather than blood based Xeer, your clan of Isaaq has been the most prominently deconstructed mythicsl orgiins.

I don't know if you even have realized how extraordinarily poignant the outcome and development of atleast the first scientific check on our mythology has been for your clan as THE clan to be the most informing.

Sxb, you are not in a position to have such a reprehensible opinion on fellow humans. You can't even be protected by the hubris that would cause that type of arrogance.


It is like one of those racists who go on reality shows talking about Aryan blood (while not exactly looking Swedish weirdly enough) and all of a sudden a real genetic test shows they have more "Black" blood than the average European.


Khalid, you need to understand, you are long past the time pretending to be indenial. It is time for humility brother.

[NGM]

Mahoka exactly he said they were ex communicated from the clan as in banished excluded. Forced to marry other midgaans probably for centuries. Their blood is polluted with midgaan blood. Now they are allowed back so they can infect the rest of the marexaan with their midgaan blood. It was better for marexaan to keep these clans as midgaan and never allow them back. Hada waad isku qasanteen.

You are a grown ass man talking about polluted blood, war madhibaan, gabooye etc are muslim somalis oo kaa sharaf badan, as for howrarsame wax kaa galay dadkay gursan jirin baa iska yar i don't even know why you are in this thread to be honest, just love MX attention

[Khalid Ali]

Gubbet midgaan is an ignoble clan that have done terrible things in the past that's why they are ourltcssted I don't even consider them somali. They are the worse kind of humans isaaq have always put these midgaans in their place. They know their place when. They see us. It's not about aryan blood it's about gob vs gun. I hope u know the difference.

Ngm every one is a Muslim but we are talking about nassab and nobility I am just pointing out once ur blood is polluted by midgaan blood like howrsame. There is no way back that's all. No offense though if ur midgaan

[Gubbet]

Khalid,

I don't know if you have noticed for a while, but at this point my understanding of Somali is beyond forum debate level caliber.

And I can tell very very very clearly not everyone considered Madhibaan today were considered Madhibaan even 2 Centuries ago and not everyone considered "bilis" were considered "bilis" two centuries ago.

I can also legitimately argue a thesis pointing out moments in this dynamic history where such disparate number of oppressed groups even came together and became a force to be recognized.

Keep in mind, I am not alluding or not alluding anything to you or any other group, I am saying realistically my understanding of Somali history is at that level where I now at least have overcome the basic Ignorance.

Early British colonial writers lied about Madhibaan. They perpetuated a well recognized descriptive strategy based on fictionalized embellishment we now called "Sambo" effect. You can read about Sambo online but it wasn't only towards Madhibaan.

They lazily regurgitated the same tropes (engorging this meat after a hunt, blood running down their bodies, mindless ant like being who are good finding tracks for them, one incident or another where they save the author from a hunt inwhich they mindlessly again allegedly stab the animal with their arrows and daggers and then engorge on the scene) time and time again towards all they called "helot" tribes or groups we now identify as marginalized. It was always effected as an extreme juxtaposition, a sort of spoil to the majority of the land being brought in to the commonwealth as a constiuent member.

The people designed as audience for the stories weren't you or people in the culture, heck they could never imagine our lives right now.

The audience was supposed to be the sheltered influential society folk in upper class Europe needing to be shocked and entertained by the strange and wondrous world their countries were going to go civilize.

This is why;

1. The writings are all from a period and they completely and immediately cease once real administration was built and real anthropologists and scholars came to.study---not just the wild gamesman or extremely adventurous globe trotter looking for shock and awe but without any trained skills in ethnography.

2. The writings are all British.or the point of view they speak for or influenced, those sourcing them. Yet this perspective is fantastically missing from ITALIAN travelers who ironically saw a larger, and bigger proportion of the Somali people and lands.

3. And the biggest and 1st clue of all that made me suspicious was, after employing critical observation, I noticed foundational inconsistencies that did not cosign with BASIC HUMAN EVOLUTIONARY HISTORY AND ANTHROLOLOGY;

As for dead meat, it doesn't even make scientific sense.

You have to understand the way the dead meat story is employed in Somali culture is not even Hunter-Gatherer. It is scavenger.

So do they eat collected carcass meat (scavenging) or do they eat foraged food/hunt meat (hunter-gatherer)?

Do they not know the cultural and evolutionary difference between SCAVENGING and HUNTING/GATHERING is even greater than Pastoralism and Agriculture?

Or did they not know using FIRE and going to HUNT is literally the moment one evolved from scavenging to hunting/gathering?

How about the fact that NOMADIC PASTORALISTS like Somalis are literal the half brother to hunting/gathering in comparison to the distant farmer?

The whole story is nothing more than the simple meanderings of small localized primitive myth creation.

At that time, I thought the caricature "which did not make sense" was naturally reflecting from Somali culture, but it is obvious now it was actually reflected from the imposed colonial readaptation that monopolized and owned the narrative informing how an already marginalized group was even retold back to the society they were within.

Yet, none of the folks from that era sufficiently understand the extent of the biological and anthropological inconsistency the fake caricatures would ultimately be betrayed by.

Hunting and gathering =/= scavenging

They were pointing out "allegedly" what they said were hunter/gathers while ascribing scavenger characteristics.

The discovery of fire was the most important cultural development in human history. It allowed humans to jump from scavenging TO hunting/gathering.

Hunting/gathering is as culturally evolved to scavenging as 4th ave New York living is evolved to hunting/gathering. I mean literally and figuratively.

There are no human scavengers for at least 200000 years.

Scavenging = "engorging" on uncooked, raw carcass

Hunting/gathering = going out to "hunt" meat rarher than growing or keeping domesticated animals

These are Hunter gathers



Notice that fire? Any scavenging early man that did not jump 200,000 lost the race. There have not been any existing human scavengers for that long.

So when they randomly equivocate "baqti" buu cunay (wild game/hunting) and *cayriin buu cunay" ((carcassscavenging?)----it tells basic human mind understanding the huge evolutionary distinction and wide cultural chasm between the two groups that the basic facts underpinning this story are probably non-existent.

It is like an alien describing humans " there are two kinds, one bigger and taller, hair in face, and betweem the legs something protrudes (penis/man?) and the other are small, long hair in head, but not on body,, and thr chest protrudea (breast/woman?).....and the bigger with protruding leg gives birth to a new one of their kind (the man gives birth?)----at that point, one expert would br like "yeah, I don't think you actually went to earth, are you just repeag

[original dervish]

Midgaans would eat the dead animals of other Somalis.....whether they died or were killed by predators.

Why is this guy writing essays about f...ING central Africans......like we don't know our own midgaans.

Personally I'm against the marginalisation of any Muslim group.

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Gubbet,

I’m a westernized Somali who isn’t well versed in our oral tradition nor am I’m a historical savant like you. You misunderstood me and Sbashi visible ignorance. I want to understand where and how Boqor Maxamed Daud ruled etc. That’s what I’m asking the historical man not the oral tale you understand me?

[NGM]

Gubbet,

I’m a westernized Somali who isn’t well versed in our oral tradition nor am I’m a historical savant like you. You misunderstood me and Sbashi visible ignorance. I want to understand where and how Boqor Maxamed Daud ruled etc. That’s what I’m asking the historical man not the oral tale you understand me?

Boqor Maxamed Daud is entirely oral history for now, kind of like how Nuur Ibn Mujahid was, Ahmed Gurey was until historical documents proved their existence, despite some weirdos now arguing about their ethnicity and clan. Boqor Maxamed Daud according to what survived of our oral history is the earliest polity, and he is as prevalent as Nuur Ibn Mujahid and Ahmed Gurey, MX oral history is all over the place needs to be researched and catologed, to make sense of it, even now I don't fully understand the migration pattern.

But yeah the oral history is vast bro and each sub has bits of it in more detail than others, its like a puzzle.

[ReturnOfMariixmaan]

Gubbet,

I’m a westernized Somali who isn’t well versed in our oral tradition nor am I’m a historical savant like you. You misunderstood me and Sbashi visible ignorance. I want to understand where and how Boqor Maxamed Daud ruled etc. That’s what I’m asking the historical man not the oral tale you understand me?

Boqor Maxamed Daud is entirely oral history for now, kind of like how Nuur Ibn Mujahid was, Ahmed Gurey was until historical documents proved their existence, despite some weirdos now arguing about their ethnicity and clan. Boqor Maxamed Daud according to what survived of our oral history is the earliest polity, and he is as prevalent as Nuur Ibn Mujahid and Ahmed Gurey, MX oral history is all over the place needs to be researched and catologed, to make sense of it, even now I don't fully understand the migration pattern.

But yeah the oral history is vast bro and each sub has bits of it in more detail than others, its like a puzzle.

Ahh I’m starting to get the hang of it. Sort like how Atlantis flood and the Gilgamesh flood tales are foundational tales for other polities as the Noah flood story is to the Hebrews, is what Boqor Maxamed Daud to Somalis and how other clan polities took it and spun for themselves. I get it a lil now.

[Gubbet]

Imagine the coincidences

-The LAST Harar Dynasty that was in power when Menelik captured it and which came to power hundreds of years ago through a violent coup was called the "Da'ud Dynasty."

It was started by Ali Daa'uud who took over in a coup from a relative.

In 1647, Emir Ali ibn Daud took control the city and established an autonomous administration

-The Marehan last King that was killed ending control of an Empire was Boqor Mohamed Da'ud line.

-The alleged conspirators accused happened to come from Hawlraarsame.... named ALI in Marehan geneology.

Howraarsame magaciisa wuxuu ahaa ==Cali

Coincidence my ass. There is only an untold story needing to be pieced together here.

[Gubbet]

punishment imposed on the Hawrarsame [...] for a historical incident [that took place a] long time ago (possibly more than a hundred years ago) in which the Hawrarsame were seen as committing treason to the Marehan. (ibid.)

The anthropologist explained that, reportedly,

[t]he Hawrarsame were of "good descent," but in fact were disowned and acquired a "despised" status within the Marehan due to a historical event in the 14th century: a Hawrarsame man [...] killed the prestigious Darood leader (the "boqor") Mahamed Da'ud, and remarkably, the whole sub-clan of Hawrarsame was blamed.

https://www.refworld.org/docid/551d0d9b4.html