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AmaalXarago

Adiga waxaaga san ka galis waaye sxb. Qof kasta fikrad uu leeyahay maogidoo? AFBIIIIIIIIJO warlord waaye marka waxbana hais daalinin saas dadka mauga gadi kartidee.

I want to share with you a short story about what happened to me some 10 yrs ago which is somewhat related how qabil is deeply rooted in somalis

I was part of the African Assoc. in my Uni, I was just in my second year so we decided I and an Ethipian friend of mine, to do something for Ruwanda...we involved or I should say pleaded with other university organiztions and outside NGO and we managed to come up with 50.000$ to send...we paid some of it from our own pockets(not much)....few months later I got a call asking me for some "Qaaraan" for my qabil...I was naive enough to tell them that all the money I had was spent on Ruwanda...and you can immagine the reaction and the responses I got...From...War wuxu dhiig ma laha, waa doqon to Adoontii buu lacag siiyey...you know somalis i guess....so the moral of the story is our involvement with qabil.

Now...as Caydid put it but in a different way which is the only hope(the best) would be to get few hundred educated somalis from the diaspora who can say NO to their own qabil and work for the Nation...Its hard I know but if we succeed to have a movement like that...then maybe we can replace these warlords.....but in the meantime(while hundreds are being killed and/or starved and not only from food) we can only hope that these dying warlords come up witha consensus that war is not the best solution and so that they may find a way to compromise and share the little money that the west and Arabs gave us...


BTW do you guys know what the 4.5 stands for?? and how practical it could become in the power sharing?? I think at the moment its the best solution.

Cawar, Siyad Barre tried his best effort to eradicate Qabiil out of the veins of Somalis. His personal ideaology "Scientific Socialism" was at first designed to tackle the ancient tribal beliefs and discriminations. It failed terribly. As a symbol of his war on Qabiilism, effigies of Qabiil were burned on public and greetings that favor Qabiil affiliation was also banned.

Though a dictator himself, he did his best back in 1980s. He said,


"It is unfortunate we are too clannish and if Somalis would go to hell, clannism is their vehicle to hell" .



But this government is doing its best to restore some form of adminstration essential for the survival of Reer Mogadisho who are in the grip of the merciless Warlords. They prey on the blood of the innocent day in and out.

It is easy to see the forces of light and forces of darkness in Jowhar and Mogadisho, respectively.

Very interesting . I believe the way to the future is not Islam as opposed to democracy or anything else , but people with HONESTY from all sides , oo yaqaan the difficult art of compromising!!
One doesn't become a leader in accordance to the money he has in his bank account or the number of technicals parked outside his villa, no it takes years to form leaders, maanta ardul somaal oo dhan kama arko anigu real leaders

First of all,

Caydiid's short Somali chronicle is somewhat accurate.

You pointed out to the good intentions of most Somali leaders in that chronicle and how these good men ended up in utter failure, with clanism being the last thing standing. Than you said give Islam a chance. It seems to me you make the same mistake as those good men that failed in the end. Before starting with a new experiment all over again (Islam as solution) Somalis need to investigate why all people who had good intentions and wanted the best for the Somali people ended up in misery and corrupted by clannism. Why are Somali clan emotions so dominant in Somali society, why people cannot shake it off? Why everyone who tried to defeat Somali clanism failed?

Without contemplating about this and coming up with an explanation/solution all groups who try to defeat Somali clanism will fail miserly. You suggested to give those Islamic groups a chance, how do you know they will succeed where everybody failed? Just because they work under the banner of Islam doesn’t make them immune for those deluding clan emotions. They will fail like all the rest because like all the rest they underestimate clan emotions and haven’t pondered about it, its structures and its impact on Somali society/politics.

Do not make a mistake, Somali clanism hasn’t failed and is still the major source for both unity and division within Somali groups. The groupfeeling is what decides everything in Somalia and you can't go around this fact.

The answer to the Somali problem lies in understanding the core of the Somali problem: Somali clanism/groupfeeling. Understanding the origins of Somali groupfeeling, it’s structures, impact on our lives, strengths, weakness etc.

You cannot defeat something you don’t understand in full depth. Running away from the problem doesn’t solve the Somali problem, you can run away from Somali clanism and say no to those deluding clan emotions in the beginning but eventually you will be absorbed by Somali society and the dominant feature in this society: Somali clanism.

>>But this government is doing its best to restore some form of adminstration essential for the survival of Reer Mogadisho who are in the grip of the merciless Warlords.<<

What government are you talking about? The same government made for, by and composed of those merciless warlords?

The problems of Mogadishu people are theirs and only they can solve it, other Somalis should mind their own problems.

Somaliweyn

"The problems of Mogadishu people are theirs and only they can solve it, other Somalis should mind their own problems."

What an ironic statement coming from someone who is called "Somaliweyn".

Please don't get upset with me I am not having a pop or anything but don't you see the irony?

"The problems of Mogadishu people are theirs and only they can solve it, other Somalis should mind their own problems."

Somaliweyn,

Lets say your above statement is true....but let me ask you this: who do you consider "the people of Mogadishu"??? cos as far I am concerned this needs to be defined or re-defined depending on how you see things and what kind of lenses your wearing???

Somaliweyne, I like your analysis and I agree with it for the most part. However, we can't just wait around till those warlords die of old age because by then their proteges will step up to the task. The mentality has to be completely exterminated. You're right in that one way to do it, is to really understand the root of the obsession.

Poverty might be a good explanation, the overwhelming majority lead improvished lives and lack the means to properly provide for themselves, hence always depending on family or Clansmen. If they are given the opportunity to be dependent on themselves, and the needed reprieve to the ones assuming the responsibility of supporting, would they still nurture clanism?

Damal, let me take a guess on why you persume I don't support the thugs; because I don't want to see another sneaky Darood in Xamar? You're absolutely right, how perceptive of you!

PS. I'm not aware of any "elected" Officials in Jowhar. Now if we are refering to those THUGS hiding in Jowhar, yes they are indeed warlods, worthless ones at that if I may add.

The people of Mogadishu means the people who live in Mogadishu, the people who witness those problems the above poster was talking about.

Only they can do something about the maffiose-like warlords and their gangs...the warlords exist in the name of the people in Mogadishu. Once the people realise this they will take matters back in their own hands like in 1991.

Somali clanism has nothing to do with poverity,

Look at the Somali diaspora living in the west, they don;t live in poverity yet they are sometimes more clannish than the people back home.

Somali clanism has a long history and has become part of Somali culture. I can bet the Somalis in the west will never loose their clanaffiliation as they will never loose their Somali culture.


Somali clanism stems from pastoral lifestyle, nomadism, pastoral economy in short. This pastoral lifestlyle exists since the Horn of Africa was inhabited by Somalis.

D.Xagarla,

Yes u are right and by the time he eradicated qabiilism, every mother fucker Daarood was in power even our house maid old Khadiijo.

how naive

Cawar, everything has its time. in 2000 when the warlords, civil unions and others met in Carta, the somalis were fed up with tribalism. It was renewed in Carta. Somalia's had the chance to forgive and move on. They elected a former minister who did not have blood on his hand. A government led by a prof was appointed. But this failed because 1) the warlords were not included and some clans felt that they were left out. b) the same warlords that have been appointed president, ministers in Nairobi objected 3) the global community did not give the government a chance.

The 4.5 formulae is the most unjust, unscientific and unrealistic thing that somalis ever witnessed. It is not based on numbers, it is not based on clans. There are no 4.5 tribes in somalia. How could a tribe be 0.5? It is a formulae that rewards warlordism. When it was announced that a formulae would be used, people were driven out from regions. The warlords consolidated their positions by killing more. The somalia problem, solutions, strengths lie in the south of the country.

Somalia in my mind needs a strong warlord, A musaveni or as I suggested some framework beyond the clan. A uniting force. Islam could be such a platform.

We cannot speak of a lasting peace without discussing the reasons why we have the problems. Somalis should change their minds about what governments can offer. The presidency, and other instances should not be lifted to the skies as many somalis do. In the eyes of every somalia, a government, a presidency means more money, more enrichments and a leap forward for whole clans.

The government of Abdullahi Yusuf and Geedi stands no chance of bringing peace to somalia. They have been in power for 2 years and the only thing they do is begging donors and enriching themselves.

Somaliweyn, I agree with almost what you wrote but "understanding" the somali problem is a good thing in a scientific discussion. Every somalia including us understand the somali problem, we could also clarify. I think what is needed is some kind of solutions.

Who could bring peace? We need sheikhs like Boqolson , allah ha u naxristo who dare shake the foundations of clans. A movement that uses islamic arguments to question the reliability of the qabil. If the sheikhs could declare that the somali qabil is xaaram, a false bidca then somalia stands a chance. We need also educated somalis from the west (Not those who write tribal issues on wardheernews, hiiraanonline, puntlandnews) but sincere somalis who are willing to throw trialism out of the window. The way it is today tribalism is given fuel by educated somalis, diaspora somalis who I call cowards (because they congregate in coffee houses and other places to nourish the conflicts. They would give the impression that they want to go back but none does.

Politics is science. In order to rehabilitate the war-torn, clannish Somali society one needs to have a sound ideology with an theoretical foundation. Why?
Because theory is the superiority of foresight over astonishment. Theory gives those engaged in practical work the power of orientation, clarity of vision, assurance in work belief.

Every Somali person understands that the core of the Somali problem is Somali clannism, yet nobody succeeded in defeating it. Somalis think they understand the Somali problem but how come we can't solve a problem we understand? What does this say about our understanding of the problem?

If one is not prepared to study the Somali groupfeeling in its full depth than one should not bother about solving the Somali problem.

Individuals like Boqolsoon (a.h.u.n) cannot survive in a clanminded society without changing the society first, again this means knowing the problem and it's solution. This great man was killed by his own people, why, how? Indeed a fucked up situation, Somali society is on a selfdestruction mode. The clanism functions as the vehicle for this selfdestruction as particular clans fight over resources and have the full backing of their clans. Why can't we rise above our narrow groupfeeling (clan) into a wider groupfeeling (nation)?

Let's look at the history of Somali society. In 1960, gaining independance, Somali people where in a nationalistic mood. They could rise above their narrow groupfeeling (clan) and have a wider groupfeeling (nation). This went on till 1963-4, at this point Somalis went back to their familiar narrow groupfeelings (clans), and suddenly people thought about their clan taking the ruling seat, and thought the government as a machine to enrich one's own clan.

When Barre seazed power and symbolically burned clanism, people where again in nationalistic mood culminating into the high nationalist feaver of the 1977 war. After the defeat, Somalis went back to thinkin in their familiar narrow groupfeeling-interest, clanism began to rise and culminated in the 91-95 wars.

If our common identity (Somali language, culture, religion etc) could not assure unity at a national level and could not stimulate the Somali people to rise above their narrow groupfeeling why do you think the declaring of the Somali groupfeeling as haram will solve the Somali problem. First of all, Somali groupfeeling (clannism) by itself is neutral and not against Islamic rules, as Allah himself said in the Quran, that he made people in tribes, clans etc to get to know eachother (in that words I think). The problem is not the groupfeeling itself but how this groupfeeling is misused by selfish and ignorant individuals, and how this groupfeeling is taken from it's neutral equilibrium.


The current conflict in Mogadishu is an interesting one that will show if Somalis (particularly Mogadishu people) are ready to rise above their narrow groupfeeling. Currently it has a tendency to spill over in a clanist conflict, with patricular clans fighting eachother and supporting the fighting militia's. People start already to side with one of the fighing parties on the ground of clanaffilitiation while everyone, including the supporters of the warlords, know that the warlords in the the socalled alliance are thugs that should be executed. Yet people side with the warlords, support and justify their actions just because the warlords have hijacked the groupfeeling and linked their survival to that of the whole clan, so people support the warlords because they think that the survival of the whole clan rests on the survival of the warlords. Mindboggling situation, how did we get to this point? The Somali groupfeeling has taken irrational and inhumane forms whereby we support wrongdoers in the name of our groupfeeling.

That is what I mean with understanding the Somali clanism, it's origins, its structures, its workings, its impact ets before one even thinks about taking the leadership role of Somalia.

[quote="Demure"]I have to disagree with your first option, it's extremely difficult to attain at this point. Not only that every other damn person has a weapon, it's often heavy artilleries. So unless this ruthless dictator can manage to deliver an air-strike or the backing of an outside support, it would be very difficult task to win regions by mere fighting.

Now I can see your second option as happening. Particularly as we plummeted to the bottom of the rubble, the re-building of a strong and sound infrastructure can only be slow, long and a challenging struggle. First Order should be water, food and shelter. The supply of these essentials I believe, should precede everything else on the agenda. Which brings us to my second order, eliminate the worthless thugs in Jowhar and their peek-a-poo rivals in Xamar, The perils of maintining to humor our transitional government is a basis of unstable bedrock for the nation, ultimately leading to another disastrous collapse.

Because there's no Government to finance any of the needed basic public services, Local thriving bussinesses and the diaspora has to fund the establishment of a formidable security system. Which for instance; can take control and moniter active ports, thus constricting all incoming weapons.

The local population has to be forcibly pushed back on it's feet. Pro-active involvment needed from all the ones who have something to offer, particularly, entrepreneurs and sociologists (according to another thread of yours we have quite a few). And finanlly, that's when we can look into provisions for an interim gov, to oversee the overall stability of the nation, offering tentative laws and regulations and generally acting as a liaison to the external world.

I'm no expert to the mechanism of post war circumstances, you can challenge all of the above and I would be happy to hear of different views or possible solutions.[/quote]




This is excatly the mentality that destroyed of what you are called Somalia which i have no clue if it existed in the first place.
Dear demore is this the solution for mogadisho or for somalia because all
souther pple menality they eye of what called somalia through mogadisho
problems or their problems to be precise.
Has it ever accur to you that somalia is 5 and not the former republic of the joined north and south, look at the other regoins NFD poor but peacefull,Zone 5 poor occopied but peacefull as well, Djabuite poor and mentaly disable but peacefull
Somaliland encouragingly confidently and seccessfully thriving economically.
The soltions that you suggested are the one that facing your mogadisho and its nieghbourhood but not somalia example do we need to disarm Djabuti i mean their needs are different from where they stand now
so i advice you when you talking you must differentiate your dreams of having a MUUFO, JALAATO, AND GOING TO CINEMA NASAR again and creating 5 as 1 nation under one flag strong and successfull somali nation


Somalight

Yes somalia was never built it was regions be glued togather and designed to end in failure, it was the ultimate plan of the colonials and it painfully succeeded


Suldaan qudhac maygaag