No Jews No Christians & No Dogs

[avowedly-agnostic]

[quote] Don't take something out of context and try to manipulate things to reach your own conclusions. [/quote]

I haven't taken anthing out of context, nor am I attempting to manipulate anyone. Anyone can go and check for themself the reference of the hadith. If you say that I've taken the hadith out of its context, then you've got to be prepared to state the context in which it was taken out of.

Your constant refusal to answer my question by either rebutting my claim, or admitting it to be true is sufficient evidence that Islam is an intolerent religion that inspires hatred and prejudice of all non-Muslims.

[Gedo_Boy]

Reading the Qur'an is a fundamental cornerstone to understanding Islam.

If you refuse to do that then you are not after knowledge.

[avowedly-agnostic]

Explain to us then the correlation between the aforementioned hadith and the Quran if any.

Do you mean to say that the hadith has a hidden cryptic meaning which we're unaware of?

The hadith my friend is clear in its bigotry and and hatred of non-Muslims.

[Gedo_Boy]

that's part of the problem........you can't understand that, which is precisely the reason you need to read the Qur'an.

If you are truly open-minded, then you would just take this information and move along and try to locate a Qur'an to study it. However, your intentions become quite clear when you voice so much opposition to being told that you need to read and understand the Qur'an to understand many things in Islam.

But just understand this, you MAY be able to fool people but you WON'T be able to fool your Creator.

Here, just read a few lines if you truly are open-minded.

http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/qura ... obe002.htm

[Gedo_Boy]

If I told you that you need to speak Russian to gain a true understanding of the power of Marx's works, or that you need to know a good deal about Anglo-Saxon history in order to fully understand Shakespeare, you would probably agree.

But when I tell you something far more profound than that...........something that would give you a complete picture on life, something that would make you regret the day "I'm agnostic" ever came out of your mouth, all you wanna do is make a big fuss.

"And say: "The truth is from your Lord." Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve"

[avowedly-agnostic]

Gedo_Boy, we're not particularly interested in your interpretation of Islam, nor do we need additional commentary to explain the hadith of our beloved prophet. His words are unambiguously clear and self-explanatory. They need no further explanation. The prophet Mohammed said in the hadith narrated by Abu Hurayrah, " Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you, and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. “

Our beloved prophet tells us in no unambiguous terms the way in which Muslims should treat non-Muslims; that is not to initiate greetings to them, and if possible to force them to walk on the far end of the pavement if one is to encounter them outdoors.

If Muslims are really interested in adhering to the teachings of the prophet Mohammed, then they ought to stop following the say-so of other people who claim to speak on behalf of the prophet and begin listening to his own words.

The prophet in his own words as is shown above (feel free also to look up the hadith) incites Muslims to treat non-Muslims harshly, and ruthlessly.
This was the way of the prophet. His way was one of bigotry, prejudice and brutal force to subject and degrade non-Muslims.

Islam as was shown by Mohammed is based on intolerance and a deep-rooted hatred of non-Muslims, and to say otherwise is unislamic and a fabrication of Islamic teachings.

[Gedo_Boy]

listen agnostic,

Allah explicitly said in the Quran that Mohammad was not sent BUT as a mercy to the worlds. That is the most general & comprehensive statement about Mohammad that exists by none other than our Creator. I trust Allah's world view a little bit more than I trust yours, someone who doesn't even know the meaning of his own existence; someone who was neither created from nothing, nor has the ability to create, but doesn't believe that something must have created him.

That is the true definition of confused.....forget about Mohammad, you have your own unsettling issues to worry about.

But if a "mercy to the worlds" translates to you as X,Y, or Z, then by all means believe what you want, I'm not gonna bear your sins and you're not going to bear mine.

You wanna nitpick a hadith that you found convenient to launch your attacks on Islam; know that Islam is only growing no matter what you try or how that makes you feel and that will endlessly frustrate you. Any piece of publicity only serves to entice people to understand Islam, and when they do they can't help but be changed for the better.

No amount of "secret missionary" or attempts to denounce Islam will delude people from the truth.

It's clear what you want.........but there is no further need to continue this conversation. You don't want to learn you want to argue, but I got what I wanted to know, and it's that your hate of Islam is what's blocking you from understanding it and your real intention is not to debate an issue or two, it's to attempt to discredit Islam, but by doing so you will only generate interest and curiosity by open-minded people. So the very people you attempted to steer away from Islam , they become more and more drawn to it and fascinated by it. Mohammad is the most famous name and he is the most praised human being on the face of this earth.

Quite an accomplishment for such an "intolerant, hateful man" don't you think?

I wonder why Hitler or Mussolini isn't remembered & praised on a daily basis by 1 billion plus on earth.

Can you think of another intolerant person so praised and revered by all races, all nationalities, all walks of life?

No, you probably can't, which should lead any intelligent person to reason that he wasn't intolerant.

But you wanna go on with this debate for no purposeful reason, and I think it's a waste of time.

If you pick up the Qur'an, I'd know you were really serious in studying Islam & Mohammad and coming at an educated opinion.

If you don't, then I'd know what your true intention was.

No need to senselessly argue, Mohammad's fate is sealed as the most honorable son of Adam

And no amount of whining or negative PR campaigns by you will change that. If it would have, Mohammad's name wouldn't have left the Arabian deserts 1400+ yrs ago.

And that's a fact!!!

[The rebel]

When Islam was quote from here and there? AA please read Quran as a whole and will see how Islam tells us to respect them and they are very close to us than Atheists.

By the way this hadeth has many dofferent versions and is very weak.

[avowedly-agnostic]

[quote] AA please read Quran as a whole and will see how Islam tells us to respect them [/quote]

Why then does the prophet of Islam contradict the Quran?

[quote] By the way this hadeth has many dofferent versions and is very weak. [/quote]

This hadith is from Sahih Bukhari, and all Sunni scholars have unanimously stated that Sahih Bukahari is the second most accurate religious book after the Quran. It even says as such on the inside cover of Sahih Bukhari. To declare those hadiths that reflect negatively on the prophet's character as being of weak authenticity is to do what the Quran accuses of Jews and Christians of having used to do, that is selecting those portions of the "revelation" that suits them, whilst insidiously concealing those portions that they'd rather not be known.

I haven't misquoted or misrepresented the hadith of the prophet one jot. All the text of the hadith in question is accurate and in its proper context.

Al I've simply done is ask why a man hailed by Muslims as a tolerant, compassionste and just man would say such things as "force (the non-believers) to walk on the narrowest part (of the pavement) ."

The response of Muslims seems to to be to silence such tough questions by saying that a hadith narrated by Abu Hurayrah (a close companion of the prophet) is false, or that I've taken it out of its proper context. It's clear that none of those charges are true. They're both an insidious attempt to silence valid criticim of Islamic teachings.

Again I ask, what did the prophet mean by intimidate non-believers as they walk the roads? Where is the respect, dignity or compassion in the belittling orders of the prophet? Why does the prophet seek to demonise non-Muslims? (see the hadith below)

“ Allah's Messenger said: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you, and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. “

(Sahih Bukhari Book 25, Number 5389 Narrated Abu Hurayrah)

[LionHeart-112]

Gedoboy..walaal, don't waste your time on this pathetic minion. He has no desire to seek the truth.

[Gedo_Boy]

[quote="LionHeart-112"]Gedoboy..walaal, don't waste your time on this pathetic minion. He has no desire to seek the truth.[/quote]

yeah, I've come to realize that

[The rebel]

good Gedo Boy. Just a reminder for myself first, then my brothers:

016.125
Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

Let us be better. remember they aren't our rule models.

[avowedly-agnostic]

Lionheart, Of course i'm interested in understanding Islam. I'm particularly interested in the character and personality of the prophet of Islam. I seek to understand what the wisdom is in his subjugation, demonisation and belittlement (if that's what the hadith amounts to) of non-Muslims .

please clarify the words of the prophet for us all:

“ Allah's Messenger said: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you, and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. “

[Gedo_Boy]

Aisha (pbuh) said about the character of the Prophet (pbuh): "His character WAS the Qur'an."

so when you tell me you are interested in knowing about the Prophet (pbuh) WITHOUT reading the Qur'an, it comes off as very insincere.


understand?

you're fooling nobody

[avowedly-agnostic]

It is clear from the hadith ladies & gentlement that the prophet was not a noble, and honourable man who respected peoples of other faiths. He wasn't an egalitarian good-doer who implemented justice. The hadith suggests that his character was much more darker and sinsister than the nice, compassionate and caring person he's often painted as.

The hadith suggests that the prophet hated non-Muslims, and despised them all without exception. So much so in fact that he ordered their persecution. Non-Muslims couldn't even walk the streets safely without facing harassment and bullying from his hench men.

These aren't inventions of my imagination (although I wish they were), but rather the honest and sincere truth. Mohammed was (judging from the hadith) a tyrant, and a nasty piece of work who was hell-bent on persecuting non-Muslims to the point where they were made to feel unsecure leaving the security of their homes.

I'll leave you to ponder on his own words: Allah's Messenger said: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you, and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it. “