"I was expecting Israel to finish Hisbulah with in week but that didnt happen"
I was not expecting that. Rooting out insurgent groups takes years.
"also I wasnt expecting Hisbulah to stand up to Israel."
Why not, they did last time?
"You ask why Hisbulah agreed to cease fire to take your urgument they didnt have a choice but to agree but why Israel agreed is it for humenitarian reasons perhaps!!!! "
Humanitarian reasons? Is this the comedy hour?
"Husbullah made Israel to compromise in the middle of a war, that itself is victory."
No, that's not a victory. The problem with the Arabs is they are so desperate to claim some kind of face saving victory over Israel that anything in which they don't get completely stomped is claimed as a victory.
"Believe me mate i wasnt expecting it, is that Isreal realised its a trap and
this is the grave yard of its young soldiers may be who knows "
All Israel has to do in the next round is declare south of the Litani a free fire zone and kill everything in it that moves.
DAY ONE- THE WAR WITH IRAN
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Steeler [Crawler2]
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I think Israel foolishly thought that Hizbollah would be broken by the air offensive and didn't plan for anything more protracted. Israel also did not want to ignore world public opinion. Some groups, like amnesty international, claim that free fire zones are against the Geneva convention (they're not).
Everyone is also foolishly worried about the "Arab Street". As if all the impoverished ignoramuses that inhabit the streets of Arabia mean anything in the equation.
Everyone is also foolishly worried about the "Arab Street". As if all the impoverished ignoramuses that inhabit the streets of Arabia mean anything in the equation.
[quote="Cheroke"]US can't afford another war during this particular time, After what occured in Iraq, I doubt if they want a repeat at this time being. However, Isreali's president won't lead his people to another war, which in their case they may not have the upperhand.[/quote]
Right, also America apeared too vulnerable and vragile to face another front, Shiat in Iraq, insurgents groups, and Iran , not mention the Sunnies.
Suldaaq qudhac maygaag
Right, also America apeared too vulnerable and vragile to face another front, Shiat in Iraq, insurgents groups, and Iran , not mention the Sunnies.
Suldaaq qudhac maygaag
Last edited by qudhac-m on Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Steeler [Crawler2]
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Egypt doesn't really mean a whole lot in the equation. They are financially dependent on the US and they don't have any important export item.
Saudi Arabia is another story. The oil is a big deal. Of course, the knife cuts both ways. Saudi Arabia has oil revenues and THAT'S IT. No oil, no money. They don't grow enough food, don't have enough water, they are completely dependent on the outside world for their very survival.
The reason why Iran continues to sell oil and doesn't threaten and embargo is the reason why the Saudis don't either. Usama Bin Laden himself could be the next King of Saudi Arabia, and they'd still sell the oil.
The global economy is compeltely interconnected with the US economy. What is bad for the US is bad for the world, at least economically.
Having said all that, I don't think anyone wants to see a major war in the Middle East. It serves no ones interests, not even Irans.
Saudi Arabia is another story. The oil is a big deal. Of course, the knife cuts both ways. Saudi Arabia has oil revenues and THAT'S IT. No oil, no money. They don't grow enough food, don't have enough water, they are completely dependent on the outside world for their very survival.
The reason why Iran continues to sell oil and doesn't threaten and embargo is the reason why the Saudis don't either. Usama Bin Laden himself could be the next King of Saudi Arabia, and they'd still sell the oil.
The global economy is compeltely interconnected with the US economy. What is bad for the US is bad for the world, at least economically.
Having said all that, I don't think anyone wants to see a major war in the Middle East. It serves no ones interests, not even Irans.
Mad
Egypt depend on American Aid i know so does Israel, why America risks
its interest for Israel, in 1948 America refused any kind of help to Israel in order not to upset the Arab oil nations and it was the french who sold $145millions worth of weapons to the Isreal.
What has changed.
Suldaan qudhac maygaag
Egypt depend on American Aid i know so does Israel, why America risks
its interest for Israel, in 1948 America refused any kind of help to Israel in order not to upset the Arab oil nations and it was the french who sold $145millions worth of weapons to the Isreal.
What has changed.
Suldaan qudhac maygaag
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Steeler [Crawler2]
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[quote="MAD MAC"]
Not going to go into that. Safe to say, Iran fights us, Iran loses. Let's just leave it at that.[/quote]
MAD MAC,
There was this quote I heard that said something like generals always fight the last war.
Hindsight is 20/20......I took this US Naval History class in college and I remember the military establishment in the US didn't even take air power that seriously until the Japanese sunk destroyers by air........my point is that you've got human beings running the show.........I don't care what their names are, Abizaid, Pace, Lord Admiral T.Sipper, whatever.
One of the few things I remember from my history classes was the concept of a constantly self-adjusting balance of power........if you look more broadly and take into scope the history of man, you can also call it a system of divine checks & balances:
"....For had it not been that Allâh checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allâh is mentioned much would surely have been pulled down. ...."
This part of 1 verse in the Quran should be enough to make any student of history seriously ponder & contemplate the eternal truth of the Quran.
Look, I'm not saying Iran can go toe 2 toe with the United States in terms of what we define as modern conventional war, but I'm also saying that Iran doesn't need to necessarily sack Washington D.C to cause a lot of damage............would America attack Iran if it meant the demise of the dollar & a crippling recession in the US economy?
I have reasonable confidence in my reasoning ability.........I don't and have never taken something blindly from someone b/c they are a 5-star general or because they have a shiny suit on......injustice & oppression don't last, no matter how cunning the perpetrator.
I believe that there are "unforseen consequences" in everything.........
The world needs to be looked at in its totality in its entirety........step away a little bit.......nations have lives just like people have lives........you may be weak as a child, growing rapidly in strength/ability as a teen, you might work out in your 20s & think you're a NAVY Seal, gradually you begin losing grip, you try to hold on for just too long and you can't..........you might get punched out by a 23 yr old when you're 49.....it's hard to take, but that's what the intoxication of power can do to you.
Looking at short term interests is like a person who lies to get something, but then he has to lie to cover that lie and keeps lying more and more to sustain himself...........eventually it gets so top-heavy that it falls on itself.
In the realms of society & technology, there are definite limitations of human beings.......history has shown that when a society begins its moral descent into decay, then things will fall on themselves gradually.
Not going to go into that. Safe to say, Iran fights us, Iran loses. Let's just leave it at that.[/quote]
MAD MAC,
There was this quote I heard that said something like generals always fight the last war.
Hindsight is 20/20......I took this US Naval History class in college and I remember the military establishment in the US didn't even take air power that seriously until the Japanese sunk destroyers by air........my point is that you've got human beings running the show.........I don't care what their names are, Abizaid, Pace, Lord Admiral T.Sipper, whatever.
One of the few things I remember from my history classes was the concept of a constantly self-adjusting balance of power........if you look more broadly and take into scope the history of man, you can also call it a system of divine checks & balances:
"....For had it not been that Allâh checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allâh is mentioned much would surely have been pulled down. ...."
This part of 1 verse in the Quran should be enough to make any student of history seriously ponder & contemplate the eternal truth of the Quran.
Look, I'm not saying Iran can go toe 2 toe with the United States in terms of what we define as modern conventional war, but I'm also saying that Iran doesn't need to necessarily sack Washington D.C to cause a lot of damage............would America attack Iran if it meant the demise of the dollar & a crippling recession in the US economy?
I have reasonable confidence in my reasoning ability.........I don't and have never taken something blindly from someone b/c they are a 5-star general or because they have a shiny suit on......injustice & oppression don't last, no matter how cunning the perpetrator.
I believe that there are "unforseen consequences" in everything.........
The world needs to be looked at in its totality in its entirety........step away a little bit.......nations have lives just like people have lives........you may be weak as a child, growing rapidly in strength/ability as a teen, you might work out in your 20s & think you're a NAVY Seal, gradually you begin losing grip, you try to hold on for just too long and you can't..........you might get punched out by a 23 yr old when you're 49.....it's hard to take, but that's what the intoxication of power can do to you.
Looking at short term interests is like a person who lies to get something, but then he has to lie to cover that lie and keeps lying more and more to sustain himself...........eventually it gets so top-heavy that it falls on itself.
In the realms of society & technology, there are definite limitations of human beings.......history has shown that when a society begins its moral descent into decay, then things will fall on themselves gradually.
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fagash_killer
- SomaliNet Super
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- Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:28 pm
- Location: And You Can Run For ya Back-up But Them Machine Gun Shells Gone Tear Ya back Up
[quote="MAD MAC"]Alas, GPS is controlled by the US DOD. Bummer for Tehran.
But make no mistake, the Iranians would not be a push over. Of course, any threat of terminating oil supplies would lead to US direct action, perhaps even nuclear attack. The US will not contenance any threat to its or the global economy like we saw in 73.[/quote]
what makes you think that the us will attack iran, 73 is on other story today they are losing power both at politically and economicly
even italy is harshing the u.s. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/754743.html
But make no mistake, the Iranians would not be a push over. Of course, any threat of terminating oil supplies would lead to US direct action, perhaps even nuclear attack. The US will not contenance any threat to its or the global economy like we saw in 73.[/quote]
what makes you think that the us will attack iran, 73 is on other story today they are losing power both at politically and economicly
even italy is harshing the u.s. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/754743.html
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Steeler [Crawler2]
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 12405
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm
"Hindsight is 20/20......I took this US Naval History class in college and I remember the military establishment in the US didn't even take air power that seriously until the Japanese sunk destroyers by air........my point is that you've got human beings running the show.........I don't care what their names are, Abizaid, Pace, Lord Admiral T.Sipper, whatever.
One of the few things I remember from my history classes was the concept of a constantly self-adjusting balance of power........if you look more broadly and take into scope the history of man, you can also call it a system of divine checks & balances:
"....For had it not been that Allâh checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allâh is mentioned much would surely have been pulled down. ...." "
Action, reaction. No question. BUT let's look at the reality on the ground right now. The US military technology is at least two generations ahead of Irans. The US economy is much larger than Irans. The US population base is much larger than Irans. What Iran can do successfully is prevent us from trying to install government. What it can't do is prevent us from destroying its infrastructure. It knows this, so it will try and avoid direct military confrontation.
"This part of 1 verse in the Quran should be enough to make any student of history seriously ponder & contemplate the eternal truth of the Quran. "
I have read the Qur'an. It is not divine. Sorry to bust your bubble.
"Look, I'm not saying Iran can go toe 2 toe with the United States in terms of what we define as modern conventional war, but I'm also saying that Iran doesn't need to necessarily sack Washington D.C to cause a lot of damage............would America attack Iran if it meant the demise of the dollar & a crippling recession in the US economy? "
You cripple the US economy, you cripple the worlds economy. Remember that. They are intertwined. The US produces 10% of the worlds food and 25% of the worlds GDP. But I agree that all parties want to avoid direct conflict. But conflict could result in miscalculation. Is the US willing to risk open warfare in order to destroy Iranian nuclear ambitions? I don't know the answer to that, and neither does Ahmedinijad. There is a real possibility for miscalculation.
"I have reasonable confidence in my reasoning ability.........I don't and have never taken something blindly from someone b/c they are a 5-star general or because they have a shiny suit on......injustice & oppression don't last, no matter how cunning the perpetrator."
Wrong. The world has been in a perpetual state of injustive and oppression since the dawn of civilization. Get used to it. It's the natural order of things.
"I believe that there are "unforseen consequences" in everything......... "
Indeed there are. But that goes for everyone, including Islam and the Muslims. They are nothing special.
"The world needs to be looked at in its totality in its entirety.."
This will never happen. People have vested interests that they are determined to protect. And peoples and cultures are not equal. Certainly not in strength. Just as you will never see the current Iranian government say "You know, we should all compromise. Since the majority disapprove of Shari'a, we're going to get rid of it so we have one just world system" you will also never see Americans say "you know, Shari'a is the way to go. Let's just forget our interests and our traditions for the sake of global harmony."
"......step away a little bit.......nations have lives just like people have lives........you may be weak as a child, growing rapidly in strength/ability as a teen, you might work out in your 20s & think you're a NAVY Seal, gradually you begin losing grip, you try to hold on for just too long and you can't..........you might get punched out by a 23 yr old when you're 49.....it's hard to take, but that's what the intoxication of power can do to you. "
This all means nothing in real terms.
"Looking at short term interests is like a person who lies to get something, but then he has to lie to cover that lie and keeps lying more and more to sustain himself...........eventually it gets so top-heavy that it falls on itself. "
But this is what peoples and nations do. Always was that way, and always will be.
"In the realms of society & technology, there are definite limitations of human beings.......history has shown that when a society begins its moral descent into decay, then things will fall on themselves gradually."
This is true. America will not dominate the world forever. I am not suggesting it will. But Islam is not the future, it is the past. Look to India, China, Brazil and to a lessar degree active but important contriutions from Europe and the US for the future. Islam had it's day, like Rome did, but it's over.
One of the few things I remember from my history classes was the concept of a constantly self-adjusting balance of power........if you look more broadly and take into scope the history of man, you can also call it a system of divine checks & balances:
"....For had it not been that Allâh checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allâh is mentioned much would surely have been pulled down. ...." "
Action, reaction. No question. BUT let's look at the reality on the ground right now. The US military technology is at least two generations ahead of Irans. The US economy is much larger than Irans. The US population base is much larger than Irans. What Iran can do successfully is prevent us from trying to install government. What it can't do is prevent us from destroying its infrastructure. It knows this, so it will try and avoid direct military confrontation.
"This part of 1 verse in the Quran should be enough to make any student of history seriously ponder & contemplate the eternal truth of the Quran. "
I have read the Qur'an. It is not divine. Sorry to bust your bubble.
"Look, I'm not saying Iran can go toe 2 toe with the United States in terms of what we define as modern conventional war, but I'm also saying that Iran doesn't need to necessarily sack Washington D.C to cause a lot of damage............would America attack Iran if it meant the demise of the dollar & a crippling recession in the US economy? "
You cripple the US economy, you cripple the worlds economy. Remember that. They are intertwined. The US produces 10% of the worlds food and 25% of the worlds GDP. But I agree that all parties want to avoid direct conflict. But conflict could result in miscalculation. Is the US willing to risk open warfare in order to destroy Iranian nuclear ambitions? I don't know the answer to that, and neither does Ahmedinijad. There is a real possibility for miscalculation.
"I have reasonable confidence in my reasoning ability.........I don't and have never taken something blindly from someone b/c they are a 5-star general or because they have a shiny suit on......injustice & oppression don't last, no matter how cunning the perpetrator."
Wrong. The world has been in a perpetual state of injustive and oppression since the dawn of civilization. Get used to it. It's the natural order of things.
"I believe that there are "unforseen consequences" in everything......... "
Indeed there are. But that goes for everyone, including Islam and the Muslims. They are nothing special.
"The world needs to be looked at in its totality in its entirety.."
This will never happen. People have vested interests that they are determined to protect. And peoples and cultures are not equal. Certainly not in strength. Just as you will never see the current Iranian government say "You know, we should all compromise. Since the majority disapprove of Shari'a, we're going to get rid of it so we have one just world system" you will also never see Americans say "you know, Shari'a is the way to go. Let's just forget our interests and our traditions for the sake of global harmony."
"......step away a little bit.......nations have lives just like people have lives........you may be weak as a child, growing rapidly in strength/ability as a teen, you might work out in your 20s & think you're a NAVY Seal, gradually you begin losing grip, you try to hold on for just too long and you can't..........you might get punched out by a 23 yr old when you're 49.....it's hard to take, but that's what the intoxication of power can do to you. "
This all means nothing in real terms.
"Looking at short term interests is like a person who lies to get something, but then he has to lie to cover that lie and keeps lying more and more to sustain himself...........eventually it gets so top-heavy that it falls on itself. "
But this is what peoples and nations do. Always was that way, and always will be.
"In the realms of society & technology, there are definite limitations of human beings.......history has shown that when a society begins its moral descent into decay, then things will fall on themselves gradually."
This is true. America will not dominate the world forever. I am not suggesting it will. But Islam is not the future, it is the past. Look to India, China, Brazil and to a lessar degree active but important contriutions from Europe and the US for the future. Islam had it's day, like Rome did, but it's over.
"I have read the Qur'an. It is not divine. Sorry to bust your bubble. "
Under what circumstances did you read the Quran? That is very important.
If one is sincerely & genuinely interested in knowing the truth, I believe that you could obtain a totally different understanding.
Also, I didn't say Muslims will prevail, I said Islam will prevail.
# Already has Our Word been passed before (this) to Our Servants sent (by Us),
# That they would certainly be assisted,
# And that Our forces,- they surely must conquer.
# So turn thou away from them for a little while,
# And watch them (how they fare), and they soon shall see (how thou farest)!
# Do they wish (indeed) to hurry on Our Punishment?
# But when it descends upon their courtyard before them, evil will be the morning for those who were warned (and heeded not)!
# So turn thou away from them for a little while,
# And watch (how they fare) and they soon shall see (how thou farest)!
# Glory to thy Lord, the Lord of Honor and Power! (He is free) from what they ascribe (to Him)!
# And Peace on the messengers!
# And Praise to Allah, the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds.
Under what circumstances did you read the Quran? That is very important.
If one is sincerely & genuinely interested in knowing the truth, I believe that you could obtain a totally different understanding.
Also, I didn't say Muslims will prevail, I said Islam will prevail.
# Already has Our Word been passed before (this) to Our Servants sent (by Us),
# That they would certainly be assisted,
# And that Our forces,- they surely must conquer.
# So turn thou away from them for a little while,
# And watch them (how they fare), and they soon shall see (how thou farest)!
# Do they wish (indeed) to hurry on Our Punishment?
# But when it descends upon their courtyard before them, evil will be the morning for those who were warned (and heeded not)!
# So turn thou away from them for a little while,
# And watch (how they fare) and they soon shall see (how thou farest)!
# Glory to thy Lord, the Lord of Honor and Power! (He is free) from what they ascribe (to Him)!
# And Peace on the messengers!
# And Praise to Allah, the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds.
Last edited by Gedo_Boy on Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Steeler [Crawler2]
- SomaliNet Super
- Posts: 12405
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2001 7:00 pm
Gedo Boy
This is THE SAME argument used by all sorts of religious faiths. How many times have I heard Christians say "IF you read the Bible with an open heart, then you will recognize it's the truth."
This argument basically goes this way. Accept that this is the truth first, close off you intellect to any questions or doubts.
This is THE SAME argument used by all sorts of religious faiths. How many times have I heard Christians say "IF you read the Bible with an open heart, then you will recognize it's the truth."
This argument basically goes this way. Accept that this is the truth first, close off you intellect to any questions or doubts.
No, I didn't say accept that it is the truth first.
I said listen to it & read it completely objectively, not taking into consideration anything...........
even if you think you are reading it objectively, you really are not because human lusts & desires are clouding judgment.
Forget about all the geopolitics, rules/regulations of Islam, your opinion of various Muslim people.
Just ask yourself: "Could this be the message of my Creator to me?"
If so, then your very being longs it b/c it is the only thing that can truly bring inner peace & comfort.......without it we are seeing but are blind at the same time.
Long after the Prophet's death, Aisha the wife of the Prophet said something very interesting.
She said (roughly): "If the first things revealed to us (Arabs) in the Quran was 'Don't Drink!' we would have said 'we swear we will never give up drinking!!'....and if the first thing revealed to us in the Quran was 'Don't Fornicate', we would have said 'we swear we will never give up fornication.'.....but the Quran taught us about God, heaven, hell, the afterlife until our hearts were firmly attached to God and those actions became hated to us.'
These sentiments are echoed in the Quran:
"And know that among you is Allah's Messenger: were he, in many matters, to follow your (wishes), ye would certainly suffer: but Allah has endeared the Faith to you, and has made it beautiful in your hearts, and He has made hateful to you Unbelief, wickedness, and rebellion: such indeed are those who walk in righteousness;-
A Grace and Favor from Allah; and Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom. "
I said listen to it & read it completely objectively, not taking into consideration anything...........
even if you think you are reading it objectively, you really are not because human lusts & desires are clouding judgment.
Forget about all the geopolitics, rules/regulations of Islam, your opinion of various Muslim people.
Just ask yourself: "Could this be the message of my Creator to me?"
If so, then your very being longs it b/c it is the only thing that can truly bring inner peace & comfort.......without it we are seeing but are blind at the same time.
Long after the Prophet's death, Aisha the wife of the Prophet said something very interesting.
She said (roughly): "If the first things revealed to us (Arabs) in the Quran was 'Don't Drink!' we would have said 'we swear we will never give up drinking!!'....and if the first thing revealed to us in the Quran was 'Don't Fornicate', we would have said 'we swear we will never give up fornication.'.....but the Quran taught us about God, heaven, hell, the afterlife until our hearts were firmly attached to God and those actions became hated to us.'
These sentiments are echoed in the Quran:
"And know that among you is Allah's Messenger: were he, in many matters, to follow your (wishes), ye would certainly suffer: but Allah has endeared the Faith to you, and has made it beautiful in your hearts, and He has made hateful to you Unbelief, wickedness, and rebellion: such indeed are those who walk in righteousness;-
A Grace and Favor from Allah; and Allah is full of Knowledge and Wisdom. "
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