Respect for the Prophet vs Freedom of Speech?

[Basra-]

Garad....haaaa Mia.... ...Sorry---dear--its not like i am the Historian of Somali ---history--that is Cilmiile's department.

Speaking of Cilmiile....Sir Luggoyo...Good point there.



Criticize the holocust here the states--& u will get an accident soon. You must sleep with one eye open. The thing is-- why one should criticize a religion that he does not belong to is beyond me.I mean--its blasphemy right?? Its a hush --hush topic! No-- No--- topic. Caudubilaahi minaa sheydaan rajiim!

[Sir-Luggoyo]

[quote="Basra-"]

Speaking of Cilmiile....Sir Luggoyo...Good point there.

:[/quote]



Basra,

What does that mean? What exactly are you implying here?

[Basra-]

LOL@Sir Lug



Nothing dear--nothing.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Now Mozart is offensive. Jesus H. Christ, when are we going to stop worrying about what the dumbass ragheads think? Who gives a fock what they think anyway? They' just a bunch of barbarians.

[1nemansquad]

^^ rumour has it that they give an eff about what we think seeing as they banned it

go take your own life because of rage, rag heads won this one

[Kamal35]

Mad Mac: Not Mozart, but this interpretation of Idomeneo. Mozart's opera was about the ancient gods, the greek gods. A great opera, by the way.

I was about to think like you when the posts by Cawar and Garaad changed my point of view. They have their point, I mean: if it's a European opera and about Western values, I don't find it offensive to behead Jesuchrist, the Pope of Rome, Saint Peter, God or Poseidon, because all them belong to the Western culture, but Budda and Muhammad are out of the matter, so let's leave them alone. We are iconoclast by tradition, but muslims are not. A little respect for those aspects would be needed. We can do what we want with our own religion and tradition, but we can't get into other religions and treat them as we treat our own religion.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Kamal
YOU, of all people, should know better. This is the same argument that treats Ahmdinijad as something other than an Iranian version of Joseph McCarthy. Or Chavez as a legitimate leader.

Imagine if Bush or Chirac or Merkel had said that "Iran should be wiped from the map" or at the UN one of them had said "It smells like ulfur up here on the podium. I think that devil Chavez must have been here." The hue and cry would have bounced from one end of the planet to the other. Have you looked at what passes for commentary in the middle east? Calling non-Muslims "Infidels" is common practice. The charicatures of Jews and of Israel are meant to incite violence and are WAY, WAY over the top. And it's every day, not like some rare occurrence. Muslims do not care in the slightest ho we feel about anything. How often do I see the Amerian flag burnt by some focking rag head? How often am I hearing chants of "death to (fill in the blank)"??? And we aren't just talking about peoples feelings here. We are talking about the actions that this behavior incites.

You want to kow tow to it, fine. But not me. As long as Muslims act like they have a corner on the beng offended market, I will continue to remind them that their revered prophet was a murderer and pedophile.

[biko]

You want to kow tow to it, fine. But not me. As long as Muslims act like they have a corner on the beng offended market, I will continue to remind them that their revered prophet was a murderer and pedophile.
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and you wonder why you and yours are the most hated and despised creatures in the face of the earth?

[Basra-]

I love this!


Civilised people discussing Opera! How wonderfully cultured people we are.

[Gedo_Boy]

From what I understand, those scenes weren't even part of the original play, I don't think Mozart had anything to do with this...


But, I don't like the idea of Muslims being so reactionary at every single statement by anybody.

What the Pope said didn't really bother me, Catholicism is not fulfiling spiritual needs of people and, through conversions & demographics, he sees Europe as becoming increasingly Islamic.

Ofcourse he's gonna be pissed......but the real problem lies in essentially all of Christianity not being on the original message of Jesus, peace be upon Him.

When did Jesus wear a robe, live in palaces & pomp, & give people wine & croutons to drink.

Ever since Jesus' untimely departure, Christianity has been evolved & made up and it absolutely resembles NOTHING Jesus would recognize.....the noise of the signal overwhelmed the signal itself.

Case in point: The use of interest in financial transactions....here's what Jesus says:

"If you have money, don't lend it at interest. Rather, give [it] to someone from whom you won't get it back."

Here's what the Quran says:

"The usury that is practiced to increase some people's wealth, does not gain anything at God. But if people give to charity, seeking God's pleasure, these are the ones who receive their reward many fold"


So, what sounds more like what Jesus preached, the Quran or the priests who shuffle Christian doctrine day in day out with little regard to Jesus' original message? Who are now contemplating gay marriage......how are they going to deliver a sermon on Sodom & Gomorrah.........OH WAIT, they will just edit the Bible to remove those stories.

If TRUE Christianity is a European tradition, every European should be a Muslim.



OK Now back to the point, there was an English academic who doubted the extent of the Holocaust numerically and he was given a jail sentence.

How can Europe claim it is defending 'freedom of speech' when it jails an academic for saying only 300,000 died in Auschwitz?

Freedom of speech is selective at best, so why argue about it?

Kamal35, the VERY FACT that you would pick up on a cancelled play and not the fact that a man was jailed for mere speech is indicative of the problem.

Some things go below the radar, undetected.....and whenever there's an issue the media wants people to get worked up about, it gets to your ears and you start asking yourselves questions like: "Shouldn't we be defending free speech?"

I haven't been watching the news for a few months, and everytime I see a news channel on, it feels like a skit or some sort of parody.

Irving jailed for denying Holocaust

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/sto ... 05,00.html

[Beenaale_No1]

[quote="MAD MAC"]Muslims do not care in the slightest ho we feel about anything. How often do I see the Amerian flag burnt by some focking rag head? How often am I hearing chants of "death to (fill in the blank)"??? And we aren't just talking about peoples feelings here. We are talking about the actions that this behavior incites.

You want to kow tow to it, fine. But not me. As long as Muslims act like they have a corner on the beng offended market, I will continue to remind them that their revered prophet was a murderer and pedophile.[/quote]


So you truly believe people are burning the American falg, and chanting Death to ........ for no apparant reason huh? You think your country has done nothing wrong, and Muslims just hate you just for the sake of it? I dont know whether to call it ignorance or stupidity. Ya Allah.

Cawar and Garaad explained everything perfectly

[Grant]

The heads out of the bag scene is an epilogue added by the contemporary director and is not part of the original by Mozart. (I checked several synopses and journal reports.)

Still, there are some wild comments out there:

One guy I read called the cancellation "pre-emptive cowardice". Another suggested re-naming Germany "Bendoverstan".

[Gedo_Boy]

Grant,

see that's what I was talking about.........the play has no connection with Mozart...........what a great spin on things.

People consider Mozart a rather person while being an icon of European civilization........why not attach his name to something to make it seem like it's being blown way out of proportion?

"A great Mozart work is being cancelled due to irrational Muslims....."

While we're at it, why doesn't the Gettysburg Address get an Epilogue by a prominent Neo-Nazi ?

[Gedo_Boy]

So, let me get this straight.

A contraversial director can put the heads of Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed (pbuh) on a plate.

But an academic raises doubts over the extent of the Holocaust and he gets a jail sentence.


So how can Europe be spearheading a debate about freedom of speech?

[Kamal35]

[quote="Gedo_Boy"]So, let me get this straight.

A contraversial director can put the heads of Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed (pbuh) on a plate.

But an academic raises doubts over the extent of the Holocaust and he gets a jail sentence.


So how can Europe be spearheading a debate about freedom of speech?[/quote]


Gedo boy: I'm not agree here. Freedom of Speech means freedom of opinion about different matters. Not lying about actual facts. It's a fact that 6 millions jews were killed by the nazis. This is out of controversy. We have pictures, we have books in which nazis noted down the names and the date of death of jews, we have the testimony of witnesses, we have the recognition and confession by nazis themselves, we have the testimony of other prisoners who kept themselves alive. We have thousands and thousands and thousands of proofs of that.

Saying that no jews were killed by the nazis is not freedom of speech. It's a lie. And the laws in Germany, just because they don't want that happens again, are very strict for the people who try to spread THAT lie. Anyone who apologizes nazism, justifies nazism or spread nazism will be jailed in Germany. Period. It's as easy as that.

To put an example that you can understand easily, imagine that some guy in the West world writes a book saying that MUHAMMAD NEVER EXISTED and was only a fabricated character. What would happen in the muslim world? Would you apply the Freedom of Speech to that?

Freedom of Speech is that you can say you like Muhammad or you don't like Muhammad or Muhammad was this or that. But saying that Muhammad never existed is not Freedom of Speech. It's just a lie.

Same for the Holocaust. The Holocaust existed. It happened. It took place in a given place and in a given date. Denying it is offensive. And you must recognize that denying it, for us, Europeans, can be as offensive as the cartoons of Muhammad, for example, for you, muslims. Or for Mad Mac seeing, as he says, the American flag burning day in day out. Respect is needed in all sides. Not only in one.