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This is one more reason for Isreal to attack Iran. That subject is untouchable.
Prag,
If Jizya was going to convert anyone's believe, Saudis would have turned Evangelical christians long ago and all the poor muslim countries in the world would have litt. worshipped ...the World Band and the IMF as God the allmighty.
Financial or military coercion rarely provide lasting ideologies.
Look at how many empires have come & gone on lands all around the world.
The fact that Islam STILL resonates in lands where invading armies have left centuries ago discredits the notion that people were coerced into accepting Islam.
You got to give Muslims more credit than that. Remember the world that Islam invaded. You had warlords, dictators of various stripes. People were brutalized every day. Suddenly, along comes and invading Army. And if you surrendered to its authority, it didn't pillage, it didn't rape, and it let you keep your faith. It's administration, relative to what you had before it, is incredibly fair. And, then along come the administrators and preachers of the faith. And if you do choose to become a Muslim, then you don't have to pay Jizyah anymore and have full rights. For the 7th century, this was an incredibly enlightened approach. Of course it worked.
But in order for Islam to be in position to offer these great deals, first the societies in place had to be conquored. And they were conquored by Muslim armies. I recommend you read the book 1453 - it's about the seige of Constantinople. Puts everything in its proper persepctive and is well researched.
The living prove that Islam was not spread by force. As we Speak there are 10Million Coptic Christians in Egypt. Millions Arab Christians in Syria,Lebanon,Iraq,Iran. Jews have been living and still live today in Muslims countries like Yemen,Tunisia,Moroc, Turkey,Iran and so forth.
If all Force was used to spread Islam,there would have never been a single Christian and a Jew in any Muslim country.
Since when Somalis were converted into Islam by force.
Somalis were the early convertors of Islam prior than some Arabs. You have to understand that Somalia is inside the region where the prophet advised Muslims against conquering it since IT saved our religion in its infancy.
[quote="B-MAX"]The living prove that Islam was not spread by force. As we Speak there are 10Million Coptic Christians in Egypt. Millions Arab Christians in Syria,Lebanon,Iraq,Iran. Jews have been living and still live today in Muslims countries like Yemen,Tunisia,Moroc, Turkey,Iran and so forth.
If all Force was used to spread Islam,there would have never been a single Christian and a Jew in any Muslim country.
Somalis are another living prove.[/quote]
You obviously are ignorant of what "prove" means and how relavent it is to this discussion.
Aren't discussion forums funny things... a thread on the topic of Iran and the Holocaust quickly, in the span several posts, degenerates into mal/bene-volent spread of Islam.
So why the transformation? Why the deviation from the pillage & plunder doctrine?
Also, if you admit it was far more humane than the other existing options at the time, how could one argue they were coerced.
If anything, they could have taken advantage of the policy and freely kept their religion without any fear of repercussion so long as they paid the Jizya.
Considering how long the Islamic Empire lasted, if there were a campaign to forcefully spread Islam, with all the resources at the disposal of the Islamic Empire, one has to ask why they did such a poor job.
There are Christians living in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Palestine and non-Muslims living among Muslims in many more lands.
Remember those same people who ended up paying Jizya were subjects of some other Emperor who didn't have the slightest regard for them. Jizya made them citizens of the Islamic Empire.
Secondly, let's not forget what Jizya is. It is a covenant of protection. The Islamic Empire is obligated to protect those who pay Jizya with THEIR own army.
The lands the Islamic Empire wrestled were largely under the control other Empires who were brutal themselves. They levied taxes on indigenous peoples and practically ruled them from some far off capitol, so let's not pretend indigenous peoples were uprooted from traditions of self-determination.
[quote="MAD MAC"]I recommend you read the book 1453 - it's about the seige of Constantinople. Puts everything in its proper persepctive and is well researched.[/quote]
