Rational Qabiilism

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PragmaticGal
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Post by PragmaticGal »

DD, when are you going to stop the pompous posturing and actually take part in discussions?

Qabiilism is (or at least was) eminently rational. Reciprocal altruism and kin selection dictated much of our forefathers' interactions and alliances. You favor your qabiil because they are more related to you, and also because they are likely to help you out in turn since you live in close proximity to one another.

We just have to adopt this system for the modern world, without necessarily invoking the zero-sum game Modern-Poli mentioned. I think it's doable, there must be a way to make f#cking the other qabiils over not worth the cost of missing out on incentives for one's own qabiil. I refuse to believe that SomeGuy's story is anything more than a pessimistic worse-case scenario. Granted, we're already in the worse case scenario, but there must be long-term projections that create workable and REALISTIC systems of governance that take into consideration our peculiar social structures without being hobbled by them.

I'm not even sure what that means, I'm just sick and tired of hearing about the drums of war being sounded constantly Mad
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Post by gurey25 »

Yes it can be Done.
Somaliland was already evolving towards this, before the entire political culture was comprimised by corruption.

but all the 3 parties have cross Clan support.
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Post by Grant »

The key is checks and balances.

Shouting into the wind again:

http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi709.htm

No. 709:
THE IROQUOIS AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT


by John H. Lienhard
Click here for audio of Episode 709.

Today, we find a surprising blueprint for our government. The University of Houston's College of Engineering presents this series about the machines that make our civilization run, and the people whose ingenuity created them.

In 1744 the Iroquois leader Canassatego spoke at the Indian-British assembly in Philadelphia. Dealing with 13 administrations in 13 colonies was impossible, he said. Why didn't we form an umbrella group? Each colony could keep its sovereignty. Yet the 13 could speak to other nations with one voice.

He offered a model. During Europe's Middle Ages, Hiawatha had founded the League of Iroquois Nations. The Mohawks, Onondagas, Senecas, Oneidas, Cayugas, and Tuscaroras formed the League. It was the biggest political unit north of the Aztec nation.

Historian Jack Weatherford says few colonists were ready to listen. But one was. Ben Franklin had studied the Indians. Later, he became the Indian Commissioner. As early as 1754 he wanted to try Canassatego's idea. Later, he and others built that idea into our constitution.

Each Iroquois nation ran its internal affairs with a council of elected delegates. They also sent delegates to a grand council. It ran affairs among nations. It was a pure federal system.

Our constitution has many Iroquois features. Iroquois lawmakers didn't go to war. Civilian and military rule was separate. That wasn't how Europe worked.

The Iroquois had no royalty -- no hereditary rule. Their nations could naturalize new citizens. The League didn't just conquer other nations. It could also admit them to membership.

We use Iroquois ideas to smooth our deliberations. Unlike Europe's senates, we use the Iroquois method of holding silence while each delegate speaks. Like the Iroquois, our delegates give up their personal names. Ted Kennedy becomes "The Senior Senator from Massachusetts," and so on. We use the caucus, or pow-wow, to iron things out before we take the floor.

We didn't adopt the Iroquois unicameral system. They had only one council. Franklin fought for that. Because he lost, we have both the senate and the house.

Franklin also wanted to let soldiers elect their own officers. That's what the Iroquois did. He lost on that one, too.

Like the Iroquois, we allowed for impeachment. But only Iroquois women were empowered to impeach. Only Iroquois women could replace an impeached leader. We didn't copy that feature.

Still, our constitution is a fine piece of engineering design. We looked at the European kingdoms we'd left behind. And we looked at these people who'd governed themselves so well for so long.

In the end Canassatego and the Iroquois tipped the scales in shaping our way of life. And we can be very glad they did.

I'm John Lienhard, at the University of Houston, where we're interested in the way inventive minds work.

(Theme music)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weatherford, J., Indian Givers: How the Indians of the Americas Transformed the World. New York: Fawcett Columbine, 1988. See especially, Chapter 8. My thanks to Denny Myers for providing the Weatherford source.
The History and Culture of Iroquois Diplomacy (F. Jennings, ed.). Syracuse: Syracuse University Press, 1985.




The Engines of Our Ingenuity is Copyright © 1988-1997 by John H. Lienhard.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.kahonwes.com/iroquois/document1.html

The Great Law of Peace
New World Roots of American Democracy
by David Yarrow
© September 1987
September 17th, 1987, America celebrated the 200th birthday of the United States Constitution, a brilliant jewel of human liberty and reason, fashioned by the Founding Fathers of the American Revolution to prescribe the structure of their new American government.

Throughout the year, countless ceremonies, reenactments, rallies, contests, TV shows, articles and conferences have marked this bicentennial of American government. The televised Senate Iran-Contra hearings and the battle over Robert Bork's nomination to the Supreme Court have sharply highlighted our national remembrance -- and the importance -- of the governmental roots of our freedom.

Yet, one vital perspective has been missing from the pageantry: for the true historical origins of freedom and democracy in the New World -- and indeed, in modern civilization itself -- lie nearly forgotten on the pages of time, where they were written centuries before the days of King George and the Founding Fathers of the United States Constitution.

Perhaps, amidst the revelry, we will take this opportunity to turn back these pages, to rediscover and possibly fulfill our debt to one of the great social wonders of history: The Great Law of Peace.

New World Democracy
As a government, America was a bold new experiment, based on -- what were at their inception -- radical ideas in European political philosophy. These ideas were given practical expression in the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. For Europeans, these historic documents represented a great leap forward towards realizing the ideal of "liberty and justice for all."

To the poor, often starving and indentured refugees from European feudal society, the vast, unexplored North American continent was the far dark shore of hope, an escape from the continued numbness of poverty, suffering and misery. These newcomers saw the New World as a shining symbol of freedom, fortune and the possibility of a happy future. But the New World was not only a symbol. In truth it was the birthplace and homeland of liberty and democracy -- for the arts of peace had taken root on Turtle Island many hundreds of years before.

This September at Cornell University, a special conference entitled The Iroquois Great Law of Peace and the U.S. Constitution, 200 scholars examined a lost and forgotten origin of the U.S. Constitution. Convened by the North American Indian Studies Program, this gathering reviewed historical and scholarly evidence that the oldest democracy on Earth isn't the U.S.A., but rather the Six Nation Confederacy of the Iroquois.

The Iroquois Confederacy existed centuries before the U.S. Constitution was written. Historians, anthropologists and traditional chiefs addressed the proposal the U.S. Constitution was based on the Iroquois Great Law of Peace rather than on Greek democracy, as is commonly believed and taught.

Conference speaker Bruce Barton, Chair of English at Castleton College, has written a novel on the founding of the Iroquois Confederacy. Barton summed up the evidence to support that proposal: "Modern democracy was first established here, and is not the evolutionary result of European political theories. The modern age of democracy had its origin in the vast recesses of this continent, and from here it spread throughout the world. American democracy owes its distinctive character of debate and compromise to the principles and structure of American Indian civil government."

On September 17th, Senator Daniel Inouye (D-HI), fresh from chairing summer hearings on constitutional breaches he termed "worse than Watergate," introduced a Senate Resolution to formally recognize the contribution of the Iroquois Great Law of Peace to the U.S. Constitution. Congressional hearings on the subject will begin in November.

The First United Nations
The first Europeans in the New World northeast encountered strong, well organized communities of the Iroquois League. This powerful alliance of five nations controlled a vast sweep from the St. Lawrence south into Pennsylvania and west to Illinois. They controlled both Hudson-Mohawk and St. Lawrence valleys, and controlled access to the Great Lakes. This strategic position on passages into North America gave them control of trade routes, and destined them to play a major role in North American history.

However, the greatest Iroquois role was neither military nor economic, but government. At that time, the Iroquois League was the oldest, most highly evolved participatory democracy on Earth. Although known for military prowess, Iroquois power was not founded on the force of arms, but rather on the arts of peace and reason. A profound understanding of the principles of peace and human freedom lay at the foundation of Iroquois government, allowing them to foster genuine, effective statesmanship.

It is no coincidence that the U.S. Constitution strikingly resembles, in both principle and form, the Great Law of Peace of the Six Nations Confederacy of the Iroquois League. When the Founding Fathers looked for examples of effective government and human liberty upon which to model a Constitution to unite the thirteen colonies, they found it in this New World society -- not in Europe, usually considered the cradle of modern civilization.

The Great Law of Peace
The Confederacy arose centuries ago among separate, warring communities as a way to create harmony, unity and respect among human beings. Implicit in Iroquois political philosophy is commitment to the highest principles of human liberty. Iroquois Law"s recognition of individual liberty and justice surpasses any European parallel. Faithkeeper Oren Lyons, an Onondaga, states The Great Law of Peace includes "freedom of speech, freedom of religion, [and] the right of women to participate in government. Separation of power in government and checks and balances within government are traceable to our Iroquois constitution -- ideas learned by colonists."

The central idea underlying Iroquois political philosophy is that peace is the will of the Creator, and the ultimate spiritual goal and natural order among humans. The principles of Iroquois government embodied in The Great Law of Peace were transmitted by a historical figure called the Peacemaker. His teachings emphasize the power of Reason to assure Righteousness, Justice and Health among humans. Peace came to the Iroquois, not through war and conquest, but through the exercise of Reason guided by the spiritual mind. The Iroquois League is based not on force of arms or rule of law, but spiritual concepts of natural law applied to human society.

At the planting of a Tree of Peace in Philadelphia in 1986, Mohawk Chief Jake Swamp explained, "In the beginning, when our Creator made humans, everything needed to survive was provided. Our Creator asked only one thing: Never forget to appreciate the gifts of Mother Earth. Our people were instructed how to be grateful and how to survive.

"But during a dark age in our history 1000 years ago, humans no longer listened to the original instructions. Our Creator became sad, because there was so much crime, dishonesty, injustice and war.

"So Creator sent a Peacemaker with a message to be righteous and just, and make a good future for our children seven generations to come. He called all warring people together and told them as long as there was killing there would be no peace of mind. There must be a concerted effort by humans for peace to prevail. Through logic, reasoning and spiritual means, he inspired the warriors to bury their weapons and planted atop a sacred Tree of Peace."

The White Roots of Peace
The Peacemaker legend is a central tale of Iroquois history, constituting an Iroquois Bible, Declaration of Independence and Constitution. This inspiring story describes a people mired in violent bloody feuds who, guided by a spiritual teacher, set aside war to adopt a Path of Peace. It's a mythic tale of struggle between good and evil, order and chaos, and the triumph of Reason. It's a morality play depicting the transformation of humans rising above suffering and tragedy to establish a higher order of human relations. It's also a practical guide to establishing unity and balance amongst diverse human communities. It's a successful model of how to distribute power in a democratic society to assure individual liberty.

To portray the spirit of democracy, the Peacemaker gave The Tree of Peace as a symbol of the Great Law of Peace. This is a great white pine tree whose branches spread out to shelter all nations who commit themselves to Peace. Beneath the tree the Five Nations buried their weapons of war; atop the tree is the Eagle-that-sees-far; and four long roots stretch out in the four sacred directions -- the "white roots of peace."

The Peacemaker proclaimed, "If any man or nation shows a desire to obey the Law of the Great Peace, they may trace the roots to their source, and be welcomed to take shelter beneath the Tree."

Upon hearing the Peacemaker legend, Dr. Robert Muller, former Assistant Secretary General of the United Nations, remarked, "This profound action stands as perhaps the oldest effort for disarmament in world history."

Several versions of the legend have been transcribed from oral traditions. The most complete and authentic is The White Roots of Peace by Dr. Paul Wallace, respected ethnohistorian. In his words, "The Iroquois excelled in the arts of statesmanship and diplomacy. After the white man came, during a century of intercolonial strife, [the Iroquois] loyally protected the infant English colonies, showed them the way to union, and helped prepare American people for nationhood."

Iroquois and the U.S. Constitution
By the time the Declaration of Independence was signed, the Iroquois had practiced their own egalitarian government for hundreds of years. The Iroquois reputation for diplomacy and eloquence reveals they had securely evolved a sophisticated political system founded on reason, not on mere power. Accounts of the "noble savage" living in "natural freedom" had inspired European theorists John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau to expound ideas that had ignited the American Revolution and helped shape the new direction of government.

But the Founding Fathers found their best working model for their new government, not in the writings of Europeans, but through their direct contact with the Iroquois League; for the Great Law of Peace provided both model and incentive to transform thirteen separate colonies into the United States.

George Washington, after a visit to the Iroquois, expressed "great excitement" over the Iroquois" two houses and Grand Council. Ben Franklin wrote, "It would be strange if ignorant savages could execute a union that persisted ages and appears indissoluble; yet like union is impractical for twelve colonies to whom it is more necessary and advantageous."

At Cornell's conference, Dr. Donald Grinde, Jr. of Gettysburg College presented evidence that Thomas Jefferson adopted the specific symbols of the Peacemaker legend. The Tree of Peace became the Tree of Liberty; the Eagle, clutching a bundle of thirteen arrows, became the symbol of the new American government.

Grinde also brought the revelation that "one of the framers, John Rutledge of South Carolina, chair of the drafting committee, read portions of Iroquois Law to members of the committee. He asked them to consider a philosophy coming directly from this American soil."

The Great Law of Peace laid out a government "of the people, by the people and for the people" with three branches. The Onondaga, the Firekeepers, are the heart of the Confederacy. Similarly, the U.S. presidency forms an executive branch.

The League's legislative branch is in two parts: Mohawk and Seneca are Elder Brothers who form the upper house, while Oneida and Cayuga are Younger Brothers, similar to the Senate and House of the United States Congress. The Iroquois" equivalent of a Supreme Court is the Women's Councils, which settle disputes and judge legal violations.

America Joins the Great Peace
In 1776, the Continental Congress appointed George Morgan the first Indian agent to promote peace with Indian nations. Congressional President John Hancock told Morgan to follow the custom of the Iroquois "forest diplomats" by taking a "great peace belt with 13 diamonds and 2,500 wampum beads" to invite Indians to the first U.S.-Indian Peace Treaty. This historic Washington Covenant belt was given to the chiefs and clan mothers at the Treaty of Fort Stanwix in 1784 as a promise that they would never be forced to fight in U.S. wars, and that Indian land rights would be respected. As in the Peacemaker legend, the war hatchet was buried beneath the Tree of Peace and prayers of peace were offered through the sacred pipe.

Another speaker at the Cornell conference, Gregory Schaaf, Ph.D, recently discovered a cache of Morgan's papers in an attic of Susannah Morgan, 94-year-old family heir. In his book The Birth of Frontier Democracy from an Eagle's Eye View, he writes: "Before the Revolution, members of the Continental Congress met with Iroquois ambassadors to learn how they governed themselves. A Chief advised, 'Our wise forefathers established Union and AmityI this made us formidable. We are a powerful Confederacy, and if you observe the same methods, you will acquire fresh Strength and Power.'

After meeting with the Iroquois in 1754, Ben Franklin first proposed creating a colonial Grand Council in the 'Albany Plan of Union': 'One Government may be formed administered by a President, and a Grand Council chosen by representatives of the people.' Franklin's plan for a Grand Council of United Colonies resembles the Iroquois Grand Council."

The Fire That Never Dies
Today the Iroquois League remains alive -- the last surviving sovereign nations of native Americans in North America. Its capital still sits at the center of New York State in Onondaga County, just south of the City of Syracuse. On a bend of Onondaga Creek Valley is the Onondaga Nation, a 35 square mile island of still sovereign native soil inhabited by 1500 survivors of the once great Iroquois Confederacy. It was nearby, at Hiawatha Point on the Onondaga Lake shore, that Peacemaker taught the Iroquois to "bury the hatchet" and imparted The Great Law. The Onondagas, Firekeepers of the League, still host meetings of the Grand Council of Iroquois government.

Among Indian tribes in America, Iroquois are special in that they remain autonomous, independent nations. Yes, nations, not "reservations" as many Americans mistakenly believe. Under international law Iroquois reservations aren't U.S. lands, and aren't subject to federal, state or local laws. Rather, they are foreign nations within the United States and Canada, who exercise their own self government on their own national soil. They're a distinct culture and race with their own language, religion, history, families, communities, and government.

Their sovereignty is continually challenged. As recently as 1983, Dennis Banks, an Ojibway leader of the American Indian Movement (AIM), was sought by South Dakota for prosecution on riot and arson charges connected with a demonstration by Sioux Indians at the Rapid City Courthouse. Banks sought political asylum under the wing of the Onondaga Nation. New York State under Governor Cuomo declined to send agents onto Onondaga soil to extradite Banks. On another front, the Iroquois are fighting the presumption of the U.S. Selective Service to draft Iroquois sons into the American military.

To Iroquois traditionalists the Great Law of Peace isn't merely a form of government, but religious practice of an ancient spiritual legacy. Peacemaker wasn't a military hero or social leader, but a messenger of the Creator. Following The Great Law is a spiritual practice, and those who follow the Longhouse tradition are "faithkeepers."

There's no separation of church and state in Iroquois society. Indeed, spirituality lies at the root of government and law.

New Light From an Ancient Source
Hundreds of years ago in North America a spiritual Teacher appeared in the Finger Lakes region to communities of the red race who guarded the eastern gate into the continent's interior. This messenger from the Creator transmitted an instruction to these people of how to live together in honor, dignity and peace.

The Peacemaker spoke his Words of Law to only a few villages, but his message and vision is the legacy and heritage of all human beings, of all five races of humanity.

Today the League remains one of the best examples of democracy, self- government and libertarian society on Earth. Through it we continue to gain wisdom and inspiration needed today to confront intensified challenges to peace and survival. Seneca traditionalist, writer and lecturer John Mohawk, in his Foreword to the recent version of Dr. Wallace's White Roots of Peace, sums up his ancient past amid our modern predicament:

"Long ago on the Onondaga Lake shore a man proposed peace was a possibility. It was a radical idea at the time, as it is now. He proposed justice could be achieved, that there would be no true peace until justice is achieved. He proposed because human beings are rational and have a potential to use their heads, these things are possible. His vision contained many principles, and what nearly amounted to a faith based on the process of thinking.

His efforts carried an obscure group of Indian peoples to the center of the world stage of history. It was a major building block which enabled the Haudenosaunee to become one of the most politically and philosophically influential peoples in history.

"The ownership of the thinking which took place then, and the generation of thinking which needs to take place now are our job. That's what we'll find when we follow the roots to their source. The White Roots continue to represent a tradition of thinking about ourselves as a species, and the responsibility to use our minds so that we continue to survive and create a good world for our children seven generations into the future."

"We, The People..."
It is unfortunate that the Iroquois" central role in the creation of the United States government has apparently been a well kept secret. For The Great Law provides uniquely valuable instruction in the arts of politics and law, negotiation and diplomacy, disarmament and government.

The search for world peace is of utmost concern to all men and women of good will today. As American democracy celebrates its 200th birthday, we must assure this deeper heritage of freedom is rediscovered and exposed to national attention once more. Beneath the great gushing growth of modern American culture, hidden and forgotten, lie the true roots of freedom, democracy and peaceful co-existence.

Let us hope modern civilization will pause its arrogant, headlong rush to catastrophe long enough to look and take note. For if we follow the White Roots of Peace back to their source, we find men and women of the Iroquois Nations gathered around a hole into which Peacemaker cast the weapons of war. There we find the spiritual inheritance of all humanity: One Peaceful World, the United Nations of the human family.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for a green and peaceful planet for the Seventh Generation
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gurey25
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Post by gurey25 »

Grant i have been an admirer of the Hodenashaune/Iroquis confederation
for years.

Its an excellent example for the world, and The US constituition is also a
remarkable achievment.

nfortunatley Somalis elite , are either too corrupt and look towards advancement, and power grabbing or are clannists.
Genuine Leaders with Vision are lacking.


In these circumstances people will grasp any thing if it is simple, and Involves Islam... they do not know that this takes allot of work , nothing is sinple.
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Post by PragmaticGal »

Grant, thanks for the interesting link there. I skimmed the second article, but this part caught my eye:

"The League's legislative branch is in two parts: Mohawk and Seneca are Elder Brothers who form the upper house, while Oneida and Cayuga are Younger Brothers, similar to the Senate and House of the United States Congress. The Iroquois" equivalent of a Supreme Court is the Women's Councils, which settle disputes and judge legal violations."

Demure's cue to push matriarchy Smile
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Grant
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Post by Grant »

Gurey,

Somali women strike me as being less specifically qabiilistic and far more practical and idealistic than the men. They are also far closer in role to Iroquois women than their Arab counterparts. If a women's council had the power of impeachment and replacement, and control of the courts, you might just get rid of the corruption. It wouldn't be your typical Somali Shir, but it would be an effective check and balance.


I am thinking, among others, of Hawo Osman Tako and Edna (Egal). Women have lead Somalis in the past, are increasingly responsible for the welfare of Somali families, and their specific defined inclusion in the government, and especially the courts, could pull this thing together.

There is absolutely nothing that says Somali governance has to follow European forms.
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Post by gurey25 »

Well Women are already the backbone of Somali society.
They rear the children, take care of the houshold as well as go out an work.

While the men sit around chewing qat, talking endless bullshit, and fighting.



Since Women do all the work , should they be given a Role in Governance at least?


Sadly in this Patriarchal society it just not gonna happen..



Maybe smaller steps can be taken.


One idea comming from an unusual source(Mucamar Ghaddafi of Libya)
Id to have a parralel femal council, that has the right to veto all legislation that deal with Family issues and Women.

He suggested this when faced by Islamists demanding shareeca implementation..


He told them that ok i will let you have shareeca, but you have to accept this female council......


Pissed off the Islamists he did.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
ghaddafi wallahi is quite the charecter.
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Post by PragmaticGal »

He sure is. Doesn't he have an all-female personal guard unit?
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Post by PragmaticGal »

[quote="gurey25"]Id to have a parralel femal council, that has the right to veto all legislation that deal with Family issues and Women. [/quote]

Actually, I don't think that's a bad idea, but I'd rather they veto calls to war instead, like the Iroquois women's council. Unlike Arabs, Somali women don't really have systemic misogyny to deal with when it comes to family issues.
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Post by dhuusa_deer »

^This explains it a lot... this virago wants to rule us. Knew something was AWRY when a gal calling herself PRAGMATIC-Gal was wondering if Qabiilism, the antithesis of pragmaticism and by extention rationalism, was rational proposition.
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Post by michael_ital »

Awesome piece Grant, thanks. Funny thing is, I was taught this by my best friends mother (Tyendinaga Mowhawk) years ago. It was a great source of pride among them that they were, and still are, the most cohesive, united and prosperous of all First Nations people.

I also like your idea that Somali's adopt this concept, as I agree that there's no law that says they adopt the European forms. The difference though is that among First Nations people, we don't consider ourselves as coming from seperate "bloodlines". One may be Mohawk, Huron or Algonquin, but you're still of Indian blood. "Brothers", so to speak. But here, one thing i've noticed, (and it irks me, as I sense it to be the source of some the infighting. I've been wanting to raise the issue for some time) is that a lot of the members describe themselves as having "Sacaad Muse/MJ/Habar Gidir" (insert sub clan here) blood". This may be just a play on words, though I feel it is a genuine belief. But IMO it's what has lead to the disunity. And it seems to have been something that has been passed on from generation to generation. As long as this mindset is in place, I don't think true unity is possible. Leastaways not as long as the old schooler's are still alive and runnning things. Somalia needs a fresh injection of young blood, and teaching the Iroquois example just may be a huge step in acheiving this.
Last edited by michael_ital on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Niya »

Grant, interesting article. The native Americans blue print for governance is commendable indeed. However, the state of the native American is deplorable. The nation is suffering from rampant poverty, high rates of school drop out and substance abuse, in addition to mismangement of their gamblings earnings. There languages are disappearing and many youths are integrating into mainstream society. If they stay on this course, the whole nation will disappear in the near future.

What happened to the blueprint for good governance and the checks and balances?
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Post by Grant »

Mike,

I had a patient here for a while who is a Mohawk Peacekeeper. I had the honor three years ago of polishing a piece of "warrior pipestone" from the Black Hills for the pipe he took to the sun dance at Pine Ridge that year. They are an incredible people.

Niya,

The native tribes have been overwhelmed by European immigration, diseases, technology- the whole package of cultural dominance and resulting apathy. I understand that tribes such as the Mandan were entirely wiped out by the intentional introduction of smallpox.

Other tribes have not fared quite so badly. Iroquois strength was greatly diminished when they were permanently divided by the American revolutionary war, but they are still there. I understand that at least some of them are able to travel to Europe on their own passports.

Tribes such as the Blackfoot and Crow are still on their native lands and were not greatly messed with. The Navajo control a huge piece of land, still have their native language, and a very active tribal government. The same with the mountain Ute in Utah. We have two Navajo shamen at the Oakland clinic who are well respected and who are apparently effective, so that part of that culture survives.

There are still large patches of tribal governments in Oklahoma and Alaska and smaller patches in most western states.

But it is true that most native cultures and languages are gone, most indians that survived have intermarried with other groups and have assimilated beyond recovery. Among urban indians, it is rare now to find individuals whose genetic makeup is pure for any particular tribe.

The only really positive thing I can say here is that the form of governance of the Haudenoshaunee is still in existence, and has been extended to the entire country in the form of the US Constitution.

Also, Indian income from gambling is a quite recent thing. The bands here in California seem to be learning from early mistakes and are doing better. But it's true that the languages are pretty much gone.
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