MAD MAC...ARE YOU CHRISTIAN?

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

The other two? I assume you mean the other two monotheistic faiths (although, if one pays attention, one would also find that Bhudism is really monotheistic - but that's another story)? They are as absurd as Islam. Probably not as dangerous - Judaism would be, but that it has fewer adherents. Christianity as a psycho faith has run it's course. But pretty much I think they're all shit.

I lived there. My heritage is Scotch-Irish-Native American.

[Gamadid.]

Mad, there was reason for which I asked if you "matured" enough. Agnostics are like kids who can't be taken seriously. Give me an atheist anyday who is decisive and knows what he thinks is truth rather than an agnostic. Besides, you don't know anything about islam but try to pass vincible ignorance as invincible. Your posts are merely a means to vent your anger, or of vindicating yourself, or of getting even, or of simply scoring points for the sake of self-aggrandizement.

When you grow up, I am ready to teach you how to debate without coming across as a ten year old kid.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Gamadid
Think what you want. I would not presume to tell you what to believe or think. But trust me, I have walked the dog. Neither you nor anyone else is going to change my thought process at this point. So you don't like Deist thought, that's your buisiness. Like I said, it's a free country. But you will find it impossible to manipulate (as you are trying to do with the "immature" assertions) me into moving towards your camp.

My image of Islam gets worse, not better, by the day. The more I learn about Islam, the more repugnant I find it.

[Gamadid.]

I meant it when I said you needed to "mature" a bit. I wasn't coaxing you, cajoling you into a debate with me or trying to open your mind up to islam. That is not my forte or something I would care to do. No one can force anyone into accepting islam and when muslims do invite others to islam, they are just sincere hoping to share what they see as perfect belief. Since you are a regular here and I have seen how your logic train works, I am not one who bothers discussing with you about anything let alone islam. It is like trying to pour water into a bottomless bucket.

As for muslims and how they are today, America has a big hand in their transformation for the worse by supporting the most corrupt among their societies wherever it went, destroys their peace since the only capable peacemakers are people you term terrorists. America empowers the murderous warlords all over the world and keeps the life-support on dying regimes as if it is bent on benefitting from the misery of these poor muslims all over the world. Whoever tows the line of America becomes a darling no matter their record. Muqdisho is a case in point, iraq is another case in Point, Palestine is one as well.

This is how you treat muslims in their own country:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2cbf0436a2


I wouldn't expect people treated like that would reason and act normal towards their tormentors. You have been to Somalia and are friends with somalis as you stated countless times. How do they behave towards you? They are muslims yet they give you the best treatment and welcome you as one of them. Here you are, lying about their religion and them as well for yor convenience.


Islam doesn't need bigots like you and I wasn't inviting you to it.

[Padishah]

The direct method works too.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"As for muslims and how they are today, America has a big hand in their transformation for the worse by supporting the most corrupt among their societies wherever it went, destroys their peace since the only capable peacemakers are people you term terrorists. America empowers the murderous warlords all over the world and keeps the life-support on dying regimes as if it is bent on benefitting from the misery of these poor muslims all over the world. Whoever tows the line of America becomes a darling no matter their record. Muqdisho is a case in point, iraq is another case in Point, Palestin"

Yep, that's the ticket. You keep believing this. We didn't put these people in power (men like Mubarrak the House of Saud, etc.). And we don't keep them in power. We are stuck dealing with the governments that are in power. Just because we have to deal with them, doesn't mean we like them. Your choices are limited. We have to protect our interests.

Islamic politics has ALWAYS been power politics. The men you see running those countries todays function EXACTLY as Muslims functioned 300 years ago - long before there was an America to blame. So spare me the bullshit. Sell it to some dumb fock who doesn't know any better.

As for my Somali friends, it's true, they treat me well. But I treat them well too. I invite them into my home, I hired a lawyer for one who was arrested, I send money to one stuck in Mog......it's a two way street. That's what being friends is about.

And I have no intention of "Maturing a bit". I don't give a fock what people think of me. Certainly not here on the net.

[Gamadid.]

^ If you didn't give a fock you wouldn't have replied with passion and tell me how you help your somali friends. You care what online people think of you and therefore reply to demistify the insinuations.

[quote]We didn't put these people in power (men like Mubarrak the House of Saud, etc.). And we don't keep them in power. We are stuck dealing with the governments that are in power. Just because we have to deal with them, doesn't mean we like them. Your choices are limited. We have to protect our interests.
[/quote]


Are you this audacious in trying to blind us about your government's record of ousting legitimate governments, installing illegitimate ones, hiring sitting incompetents or assassinating leaders who disagree with US policies? You even admitt you protect your interests by engaging in politcal actions which result in the suffering of defensless third world countries. One thing comes out clear of US policy, if you ain't white and christian, you are screwed forget about islam. Latin Americans are not safe if they aren't towing Uncle Sam's line. Venezuela is a prime example of a country being a target for claiming its independence in your southern hemisphere.

[quote]Islamic politics has ALWAYS been power politics. So spare me the bullshit. Sell it to some dumb fock who doesn't know any better.
[/quote]

Wrong. Islamic politics have always been caring about the community, helping the weak, protect victims, serving justice, and above all, save mankind from their predisposion towards evil. Why do you think weak penniless organizations like Hamas are popualr in Palestine? Why do you think the ICU pacified a city given up by the world as a graveyard and too violent for violent America?

[quote]The men you see running those countries todays function EXACTLY as Muslims functioned 300 years ago - long before there was an America to blame[/quote]


Wrong again.



[quote]And I have no intention of "Maturing a bit". I don't give a fock what people think of me. Certainly not here on the net[/quote]


You can remain "immature" to your own heart's content. I am not the one who suffers or will suffer the debilitating effects of narrow-mindedness.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

"If you didn't give a fock you wouldn't have replied with passion and tell me how you help your somali friends. You care what online people think of you and therefore reply to demistify the insinuations."

This is a discussion page you moron. Of course one replies in discussion pages. But I don't care about what you think of me anymore than you care about what I think of you. Get real here.

And if you think that Islamic governance has some history of "caring" then you really are a naive a dumba$$. Power politics is, and always has been, the history of Islamic governance. The quaint stories notwithstanding. Don't be a focking fool.

The US history of ousting governance like Allendes is almost always in the context of the cold war. At least in the last 75 years. Do you really think that somehow the governments of the middle east would be less avracious were it not for the US? Qadhafy, Asad, Hussein....there is no way you can say these were US creations. Yet universally, across the middle east, whether the governments are pro or anti US, their contructs are ALWAYS the same.

The US is not what is wrong with the Middle East. Islam is.

[Gamadid.]

""This is a discussion page you moron""

As if you grasp the meaning of the word "discussion". You epitomize what is wrong with discussion boards, fools and man-kids running around with silly comments showing no respect to the superiorly enlightened.


""But I don't care about what you think of me anymore than you care about what I think of you. Get real here""


But you care enough to explain that you don't care?? There is basic truth to human psychology that one doesn't have to learn from text books: People react to stimuli, let us face it, if you don't care what I write, you would shut your mouth. Show me you follow me here and don't post a reply to me then I will believe you don't care.


""And if you think that Islamic governance has some history of "caring" then you really are a naive a dumba$$. Power politics is, and always has been, the history of Islamic governance. The quaint stories notwithstanding. Don't be a focking fool.""

True, islamic history is replete with power struggles which doesn't mean these power struggles deminished the basic islamic message. There is the pernicious human element and then there is the prestine islamic teachings free from human tampering. The two are different. Tell me the power grasp of Shi'ites engineered by the US has any islamic connection to it? It is purely sectarian power grasp.

""Do you really think that somehow the governments of the middle east would be less avracious were it not for the US? Qadhafy, Asad, Hussein....there is no way you can say these were US creations. Yet universally, across the middle east, whether the governments are pro or anti US, their contructs are ALWAYS the same. ""


You are wrong. I respect the US people, and if their government worked for justice in islamic countries, I would be a willing soldier for them being at the forefront. If America adopted a neutral stance towards internal islamic power struggles, trust me, the winners would welcome the US as a friend. This has yet to be proven because the prevalent fear is that any opposition with islamic tag on it is viewed as bad for the US.


""The US is not what is wrong with the Middle East. Islam is""

Islam once brought together jews, christians and muslims under one umbrella and made them productive beings. From the recent Ottoman empire to the ancient islamic kingdom of Spain, co-existence, co-operation and mutually benefit from one another was the prevalent.

[FAH1223]

[quote="MAD MAC"]

The US is not what is wrong with the Middle East. Today's Muslims in the region are.[/quote]

FIXED... and its sad shyt

there is a difference, Islam has been the mid east for 1400 years and there was a lot of good that came with the various Empires that encompassed the region

but the rise in Nationalism in the 20th century has set the face for alot of these conflicts

But you can't ignore that a lot of problems going on.. the British Empire had its foot in and thats another factor