Muslims for Progressive Values

[Beenaale_No1]

Homosexuality are the LEAST of our worries. Why argue over something that is at the bottom on our priority list?

Anyway, on social issuesI have this crazy idea. How about "live and let live"? I know its crazy and barbaric and backward mentality to just live and let live, and leave people alone, but lets give it a shot. Within reason of course.

You can live and let live but the problem is do you want Somalia or any other Muslim country to have this phenomena of gays being out there in open? There's a reason why there is stoning of gays if they are caught in the act and although the 4 witnesses bit is practically impossible (which Allah in his infinite mercy has it as a "none of your business" or "keep the ceeb in private") its a way for that type of behavior to be suppressed.

Now if people have those feelings and its known, they shouldn't be killed but there should be something done to perhaps bring them back to being straight. Homosexuality is a bidca. If you're gonna do that shid, do it underground in the Muslim world... or go to Europe. The only good thing I like about some of the more conservative areas of America is that homosexuality is still shunned, but they also are still racist to other minorities

Live and let live may work here in the West cause we're minorities and we reap the benefits of these values and things like affirmative action, but I don't want to see the Muslim world accepting homosexuality as caadi or some of the other haram/disgusting things out here in the West. I also don't believe the Muslim communities should embrace ALL of those values... but take the unversal aspects that all of humanity should adhere to and what the Qur'an consistently preaches.

Respecting human rights, property, dignity for all people should be promoted... my only problem with that list is thinking that a couple of those innovations should be accepted by us... hell no.

Union is calling for changing the Qur'an and the Sunnah of Nabi Muhammad (SAW) to fit what the Christians have done in the West... which is to change your religion according to your every whims and desires.

Ok, Homosexuality aside, what about everything else? Women should dress however they want, people can chose to follow whatever religion they want [without allowing them to spew anti-Islam rhetoric], and they can follow no religion if they want. Nobody should be forced to do anything or restricted to do anything, unless it is harmful to the public.

People in this thread wanna dictate how others live. And people love to get on their moral high ground.

[Beenaale_No1]

Homosexuality are the LEAST of our worries. Why argue over something that is at the bottom on our priority list?

Anyway, on social issuesI have this crazy idea. How about "live and let live"? I know its crazy and barbaric and backward mentality to just live and let live, and leave people alone, but lets give it a shot. Within reason of course.

Isn't that the reason why the Muslim world is in the situation it's in?

That mentality cost us our dignity and because of that we have extreme groups speaking for us on each side of the table, you will rarely see your regular conservative Muslim speaking out as loud as the extremists and because of that the religion, and consequently, the society's true way of living has been hijacked and taken away.

All Im saying is this

Let the Atheists be Atheists
Let the Christians be Christians
Let women dress how they want
Let men and women live how they want

How does this affect anyone's life I do not know. Does it affect you that a girl is walking around hijabless? As long as they not spouting anti-Islam nonsense and are being harmful to society, we should just live and let live.

That is my basic principles.

[Nanees]

Lakum diini kum waliya diin.

Muslims in western nations that believe they have the right to force Islam on non Muslims need a reality check.

[accident]

Homosexuality are the LEAST of our worries. Why argue over something that is at the bottom on our priority list?

Anyway, on social issuesI have this crazy idea. How about "live and let live"? I know its crazy and barbaric and backward mentality to just live and let live, and leave people alone, but lets give it a shot. Within reason of course.

Isn't that the reason why the Muslim world is in the situation it's in?

That mentality cost us our dignity and because of that we have extreme groups speaking for us on each side of the table, you will rarely see your regular conservative Muslim speaking out as loud as the extremists and because of that the religion, and consequently, the society's true way of living has been hijacked and taken away.

All Im saying is this

Let the Atheists be Atheists
Let the Christians be Christians
Let women dress how they want
Let men and women live how they want

How does this affect anyone's life I do not know. Does it affect you that a girl is walking around hijabless? As long as they not spouting anti-Islam nonsense and are being harmful to society, we should just live and let live.

That is my basic principles.

That's a very difficult concept for them to understand. One step at a time.

[greenday]

Lakum diini kum waliya diin.

Muslims in western nations that believe they have the right to force Islam on non Muslims need a reality check.

[FAH1223]

Ok, Homosexuality aside, what about everything else? Women should dress however they want, people can chose to follow whatever religion they want [without allowing them to spew anti-Islam rhetoric], and they can follow no religion if they want. Nobody should be forced to do anything or restricted to do anything, unless it is harmful to the public.

People in this thread wanna dictate how others live. And people love to get on their moral high ground.

I don't have a problem with that. I'm not for forcing people into faith. That goes against Xuriya Al-3aqeeda which the Qur'an promotes with various ayat. If you want to change things though, its all about changing the culture through subtle means i.e. media, literature, arts, etc... and we need a lot more honest, REAL Muslims in those fields esp. in the West but even for the Muslim world. We have too many fakes who leave Islam to sell a book because of how lucrative it is...

But yeah, people should be free to choose what they want to do. In the Muslim world, things are shaped with culture... the good thing is, there are elements in cultures that promote Islamic ideals for everyday life... but there are thsoe tribal and ancient customs that are alien to the deen too.

Twist, yeah apathy has led the Muslim world to the way it is now. People just want to stay in their bubble and not do anything. Muslims have transported this mentality to the West no matter if they're an M.D. or a cab driver. Everyone is just about not integrating themselves into society OR we have Muslims who sell out to appeal to the gaalo by trying to fit Islam with their same whims and desires.

Muslims need to quit living for others and start living for Allah and practice what they preach to people. Stand for justice, do something with other groups on the common universal concepts that all humans preach (you have a good number on the list union posted) but draw a line on other things.

[union]

FAH, basically you enjoy being a minority in the West with the rights and privileges afforded to you therein, largely because of the work of progressive movements, but you think those same rights should not be extended to minorities in the Muslim world and Somalia specifically? Hypocrite be thy name.

Voltage, you need to slow down with your false equivalences. It’s beyond me how you can equate my defense of basic human rights principles that are perfectly in line with Islamic teachings to known Islam hater and liar Ayan Hirsi and Al Qadea. That is simply false, bogus and offensive.

[FAH1223]

FAH, basically you enjoy being a minority in the West with the rights and privileges afforded to you therein, largely because of the work of progressive movements, but you think those same rights should not be extended to minorities in the Muslim world and Somalia specifically? Hypocrite be thy name.

Voltage, you need to slow down with your false equivalences. It’s beyond me how you can equate my defense of basic human rights principles that are perfectly in line with Islamic teachings to known Islam hater and liar Ayan Hirsi and Al Qadea. That is simply false, bogus and offensive.

I never said minorities shouldn't be extended rights. We should practice what we preach from the Qur'an for justice for all humanity and respect people's rights. That's not anti-Islamic or anti-Secular.

However, I will never accept homosexuality to be a norm. Never. If there are Gays, they can work, live, but they can't bring their crap out into the open. Ultimately, culture and societies shape that and alhamdullilah atleast in the Muslim world people do not accept that Qawm Al-Lut lifestyle and they never will because despie our situation, we still believe in the XAQ.

In Somalia for example, the Bantu, the cad cads, and other minority clans should be protected and afforded the same rights as anyone else. This is promoted in our religion and the rest of the world has only caught up with this concept in the last 100-150 years.

The US Constitution promoted all men were created equal... yet madow were 3/5ths of a person. Islam was ahead of the curve 1200 years before and will forever remain ahead. Muslims need to change, we all agree on that point. But the deen, the religious practices we do and all that are well-established in the sunnah and must be followed.

[934]

[Nanees]

Lakum diini kum waliya diin.

Muslims in western nations that believe they have the right to force Islam on non Muslims need a reality check.

it's really not rocket science. You want an islamic society, build an islamic nation.

[Shirib]

union,

You're saying that if I decide to go and sleep with another man, it's because of something in my genes?

[union]

At the end of the day, it is becoming clear as night and day that the only way to protect the rights of man and citizen, of every belief and creed, is to create a state unprejudiced by the effects of religion. A great deal of people base their own bigotry not on their personal need to see others treated unequally, but on some form of divine unalterable truth. I do not know how to respond to people who say it is my religion to persecute gays, or that my faith is affronted by the idea of liberty of conscious or that elements of human rights are inconsistent with my spiritual beliefs or that person worships God differently than I do, therefore I shall fight them until they adopt my way of worshipping God. We see the effects of this in Somalia today, where the salafis are in war with the sufis over the latter’s alleged worship of graves. A state whose legitimacy comes from the enforcement of religion is incompatible with the Islamic doctrine of no compulsion in religion, and will result in the repression of dissenting belief and lifestyles, such as the Islamist Republic of Iran which actively persecutes gays and Sunnis, believing both to be an affront to the true message of God. The greatest single argument for secularism is the great diversity in the Muslim world in regards to faith, lifestyle, political views etc etc. An open mind is the basic element of wisdom, and I fear many of those who are so blinded with their own religious dogmas will never have an open mind that can tolerate and respect others who choose to live their lives differently than they do. We should not allow such persons to control the governance of our societies.

[union]

Shirib, if you have a sexual attraction to men you are gay. And if you decide to sleep with another man based upon that attraction, then yes that is largely because of a sexual disposition outside of your control. If you decide to sleep with another man without that sexual attraction, for whatever reason, while you make be engaging in a homosexual act you are not homosexual. Also I am not saying anything, this isn't my opinion, this is the conclusion reached by scientists.

[Shirib]

When Our verses are recited to him, he says, .(These are) the tales of the ancient (68:15)

And these were jaahil Bedouins in the 7th century who were saying this. Oh how things never change

[Shirib]

union,

there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE which suggests that homosexuality is not a choice. Nothing, now you're just spouting lies by saying there is evidence of it not being a choice.