THERE IS NO CONVINCING ARGUMENT FOR SOMALLAND INDEPENDENCE

[Sophisticate]

Walaal, what is this idyllic Somalia that you are propositioning? I doubt Somaliland wants to be the sacrificial lamb for Somalia again. Unity has historically equated divestment in the north in favour of the south. Would there really be a change? Are you proposing that Somaliland lead Somalia into a new day? That has plenty of push back - on both sides. Somalis are more concerned with one-upmanship and less on cooperation. Although some are cunning with forked tongues - preaching unity but wanting the lions share of IMF, World Bank and African Development Fund loans. Anywho, Somaliland ought to concern itself with balancing its own political inequalities before talk about union/succession continues.

Maybe ur right. Y'all are making me lose hope

You don't have to lose hope. In the meantime, we'll have to do the best with the hand that we're dealt. Truthfully, I don't see any Somali territory as equitable. Yet for some reason, I see Somaliland as workable.

[skywalker25]

Walaal, what is this idyllic Somalia that you are propositioning? I doubt Somaliland wants to be the sacrificial lamb for Somalia again. Unity has historically equated divestment in the north in favour of the south. Would there really be a change? Are you proposing that Somaliland lead Somalia into a new day? That has plenty of push back - on both sides. Somalis are more concerned with one-upmanship and less on cooperation. Although some are cunning with forked tongues - preaching unity but wanting the lions share of IMF, World Bank and African Development Fund loans. Anywho, Somaliland ought to concern itself with balancing its own political inequalities before talk about union/succession continues.

Maybe ur right. Y'all are making me lose hope

You don't have to lose hope. In the meantime, we'll have to do the best with the hand that we're dealt. Truthfully, I don't see any Somali territory as equitable. Yet for some reason, I see Somaliland as workable.

By far the best statement.

Very well put Sophisticate..


Somaliland joining Somalia is not the magic solution some are looking for, it wont help Somalia, only make the problem larger.

The tribes currently residing in Somalia proper are unable to work with eachother in a meaningful way. This is not because they do not have the ability, they would rather play a zero sum game. Introducing Somaliland into this atmosphere would ensure it becomes more like Somalia inorder to survive. The end result would mean the whole of the horn would be a failed state and your ideological driven dream would be our nightmare.

Those who constantly cry for unity like our resident kastumos know this out come. They are practices of the same zero sum game and its not surprising. They want nothing but the failure of Somaliland and the destruvction of Isaaq's. Sad but true.

Jug,

You have to stay vigilant and avoid mission creep. No doubt good Somalia exists in both Somalia and Somaliland, as do bad once, However, they are outnumbered by the bad apples. Unfortunatly those are the once currently in power in Somalia.

[Jugjugwacwac]

Soph and Skywalker I'm afraid yall are right. I would never want Somaliland to get bogged down in the zero sum games of Somalia, even though we ourselves have low intensity versions of the same game. I'm a die hard supporter of the peace and stability of Somaliland. I just wish Somalis could see the bigger picture and focus on their true enemies instead of themselves. Just yesterday Amisom massacred civilians in Marka. That's what boils my blood and makes clan politics so petty to me. Who cares about reer hebel and reer hebel when these bantus and habashis are killing, raping and pillaging? But I guess u guys are right and i'm being too idealistic. Insha'Allah things will change for the better in the near future for all the Somali regions.

[VeiledGarbasar]

Of course there is a lot of misunderstanding between Northerns & Southerns.
My mom was born in Xamar and has nothing but good memories on that city.

The problem is not about who suffered more than the other, but how Somalis
are keen to undermine eachother when they have nothing to offer.

When Mahdi declared himself as the president of Somalia, it was seen by northerns as
another Siad Barre in the making and that's how SL was reborn. Yet today, after 20 something years,
we're still pretty much on the same situation.

If Somalia can't lead SL, or at least get it's house in order, why subverting others to prosper
or decide their faith for a dream that was proved to be futile and unreachable?

Think about what SL could have achieved in almost a whole generation (1991-2015)
Wouldn't SL be a force to be reckoned at least in Horn the and the wider Somali nation?

For some reason, Djibouti is popular among Somalis, even though
it's existence alone defies the whole concept of Somaliwayne.

Am just saying, if Somalis can live better under SL than Somalia, why not?

Thank you for the lovely reply. I am not against Somaliland or Somaliland becoming a state of its own in reality. But in theory, I am a believer in Somaliweyen, I would love a nation that incorporates all Somalis, but if that doesn't happen then it's not the end of the world.

I'm just against the we suffered more and our struggle precedes yours argument? My great grandfather was fighting Omanis prior to Italians/British colonialists? I just don't see that that as a sound argument. However, I'm down with we joined this Union and we want out now. It will be difficult to achieve and let me point out to you, I live in England and Scotland is a separate country, but totally not separate. Somaliland can have a similar status, afforded only to them, otherwise if every part of Somalia says I want to be a country, ka kac oo sheekada nooqa.

And btw, Cali Mahdi did not declare himself president, my father was present at that conference. And it was only to be in the meantime.

[Rambie]

Of course there is a lot of misunderstanding between Northerns & Southerns.
My mom was born in Xamar and has nothing but good memories on that city.

The problem is not about who suffered more than the other, but how Somalis
are keen to undermine eachother when they have nothing to offer.

When Mahdi declared himself as the president of Somalia, it was seen by northerns as
another Siad Barre in the making and that's how SL was reborn. Yet today, after 20 something years,
we're still pretty much on the same situation.

If Somalia can't lead SL, or at least get it's house in order, why subverting others to prosper
or decide their faith for a dream that was proved to be futile and unreachable?

Think about what SL could have achieved in almost a whole generation (1991-2015)
Wouldn't SL be a force to be reckoned at least in Horn the and the wider Somali nation?

For some reason, Djibouti is popular among Somalis, even though
it's existence alone defies the whole concept of Somaliwayne.

Am just saying, if Somalis can live better under SL than Somalia, why not?

Thank you for the lovely reply. I am not against Somaliland or Somaliland becoming a state of its own in reality. But in theory, I am a believer in Somaliweyen, I would love a nation that incorporates all Somalis, but if that doesn't happen then it's not the end of the world.

I'm just against the we suffered more and our struggle precedes yours argument? My great grandfather was fighting Omanis prior to Italians/British colonialists? I just don't see that that as a sound argument. However, I'm down with we joined this Union and we want out now. It will be difficult to achieve and let me point out to you, I live in England and Scotland is a separate country, but totally not separate. Somaliland can have a similar status, afforded only to them, otherwise if every part of Somalia says I want to be a country, ka kac oo sheekada nooqa.

And btw, Cali Mahdi did not declare himself president, my father was present at that conference. And it was only to be in the meantime.

In theory, Somaliwayn is a great plan and concept.
But in reality, it's nothing but a smoke screen.You would be surprised of the
terrifying things I have read that Somalis have done to other fellow Somalis in the name of Somalinimo.

All clans went through battles against foreign entities.
The Isaaq & Darood fought with Ahmed Gurey against Abyssinian.
They also formed the Daravish and terrorized other Somali clans along.
The Biyomal also fought in the south against Italian colonist.

But we don't want to talk about what Somalis have done to foreigners
hundreds of years ago, we're talking about what Somalis have done to other Somalis just 50 years ago.
I can write essays about how southerns were living pretty well despite the lack of political role under Siad Barre compared
to northerns who've been neglected, isolated and demonized thanks to kacan regime.





SL wouldn't even exist if Mahdi & Aideed played their cards right.
Aideed made a deal with SNM and SPM to come together after throwing Siad Barre.
But Mahdi assumed the power over Xamar and clashed later with Aideed.







Anyway, am not here to point fingers at others or turn
this into who suffered more than who. For any truly national
Somali man or women, Somaliland regaining it's independence is for the greater
good of Somalis there and everywhere. Honestly, from what I have read so far and where things
are heading, I don't see the south getting back on it's feet again.

Nor I think if SL got it's independence today it would easily
rejoin Somalia tomorrow considering how difficult it was to regain
their statehood back, and how Somalia fought so hard to prevent it.

All in all, I wish the Somali nation nothing but success.
Wither united or divided.

[lali99]

Soph and Skywalker I'm afraid yall are right. I would never want Somaliland to get bogged down in the zero sum games of Somalia, even though we ourselves have low intensity versions of the same game. I'm a die hard supporter of the peace and stability of Somaliland. I just wish Somalis could see the bigger picture and focus on their true enemies instead of themselves. Just yesterday Amisom massacred civilians in Marka. That's what boils my blood and makes clan politics so petty to me. Who cares about reer hebel and reer hebel when these bantus and habashis are killing, raping and pillaging? But I guess u guys are right and i'm being too idealistic. Insha'Allah things will change for the better in the near future for all the Somali regions.

Here we go again; relocating SL quest as a legitimate multi-clan State that is vying to regain is independance as merely "reer hebel talks". Another prime example of a "non isaaq talk". Just stop pretenting shagaato.

[Sophisticate]

Skywalker thank you. Jugjugwacwac I have much love for Somalis from all corners and I share their pain and anguish, however they are collectively eternally damned unless they stop deriding the progress of each other, in the name of qabil. I don't consider Somaliland's succession a grievance to Somaliweyne, nor do I consider uniting with Somalia a slap in the face of Somaliland. I'm what you call a conscientious objector. I say let the citizens of Somaliland decide for themselves. What I really want to see, more than anything is development and a reduction in the staggering unemployment rate across the horn. Of course, I have much hope in Somaliland since my family is from there.

[djibsomali]

definitely that is your picture in your profile!

[Sophisticate]

^^^
I suppose so. It's just a sketch anyway.

[djibsomali]

why did you put up?
unfortunatly you don't live anywhere near the UK hadii kaleeh i would have proposed you to a dinner party

[PrinceDaadi]

I think everyone has given their opinion, most of SL crew do opt to leave this failed marriage, our brother jugjug has to wait and see how this ends.

fortunately for him most of these members who are opposing his view will not have a say how this issue how ends since they live outside .

I m seeing very few Southerners contributing to this discussion! are they saying "timir tii horaa dab loo waayay".

[skywalker25]

why did you put up?
unfortunatly you don't live anywhere near the UK hadii kaleeh i would have proposed you to a dinner party

Word of advice you need to give up the alcohol first bro.

[Siciid85]

I am more in the camp of somewhere in neutral ground. I do want Somaliland to retain its flag, armed forces, local laws and keep the revenues it collects and from its natural resources(once taped).

We co-founded the country of Somali republic, fought and died for it in wars of '64 &''77 and it makes no sense to abandon everything for Moqdishu. We want to co use the Somali passport and we want our fair share of the funds that Mogadishu takes on our behalf.
If Somalia is willing to accept that, great and if not, they can very much screw themselves

[PrinceDaadi]

I am more in the camp of somewhere in neutral ground. I do want Somaliland to retain its flag, armed forces, local laws and keep the revenues it collects and from its natural resources(once taped).

We co-founded the country of Somali republic, fought and died for it in wars of '64 &''77 and it makes no sense to abandon everything for Moqdishu. We want to co use the Somali passport and we want our fair share of the funds that Mogadishu takes on our behalf.
If Somalia is willing to accept that, great and if not, they can very much screw themselves

It seems you r getting jugjug's message, Jugjug is saying Somali republic is not for Mogadishu it is for us and let us take our rightful position!

As Sophi said people of the horn need living more than anything else.

[skywalker25]

I am more in the camp of somewhere in neutral ground. I do want Somaliland to retain its flag, armed forces, local laws and keep the revenues it collects and from its natural resources(once taped).

We co-founded the country of Somali republic, fought and died for it in wars of '64 &''77 and it makes no sense to abandon everything for Moqdishu. We want to co use the Somali passport and we want our fair share of the funds that Mogadishu takes on our behalf.
If Somalia is willing to accept that, great and if not, they can very much screw themselves

I think thats the pragmatic view. Its not the general Somaliland consensus, although its the logic, most profitable position.