My 23andme results and my in depth research of qabiil trends in DNA

[Sahibzada]

Why are you trying so hard to prove yourself to me? Are you looking for recognition or something? Your an Oromo. Why are you ashamed? Oromos are a great nation wallahi.

Bringing facts disproving your bs claims is "trying hard'? No wonder all you do is cry Oromo..dumb langaab


Anyways being Isaaq,Darood or Hawiye or even 40 million strong Oromo is better then being a garacbursi docile langaab fag that always get slapped up by me and my reer xareed cousins.

You lied again. Go to the Haplogroup T paternal forums. You must have missed it (maybe on purpose) Or just pure denial.. I wouldn't be surprised if you missed it on purpose. It's there for everyone to see. The thread dates back to at least 1-2 year(s) ago. Have a blast mate

LOOOOOOOOOOOL...I have already gotten you figured out

Me:HA are majority E-V32,here are the str results
Garacbursi:Oromo ba tahay
Me:Proof?
Garacbursi:Oromo hehehe
Me:Bring out some Dir results if you are so confident about your own origins!
Garacbursi:Wallahi billahi I seen a Habar Awal score T-M70 on a forum but I don't feel like posting the link.

[Ben Dover]

Zumaale,

The alliance is not something I am throwing around, its the only explanation we have of the relationship of Isaaq and Dir other than Isaaq being part of Dir, something unacceptable to Isaaq. I have family members who are knee deep into the Arab myth, they still would not believe anything else. The alliance is their rational for Dir linkage, but also heard the same theory of Isaaq being protected by Maha Dir by others who did not mention the Arab myth.

You forget that the maternal relations that you are claiming are absolute folklore, I would believe the abtirsi more than a story that so and so married so and so from 300 years ago. I do not fully accept abtirsi to be without error, but it is an order of magnitude stronger than a sheeko like Arab Isaaq woman gave birth to Ogaden or Dhulbahante. Abtirsi is the only thing Somalis cared to preserve. It is not without error, but it is the only thing we have handed down in terms of history.

Dude, I am not using Lewis's thesis, I am quoting his reporting. He is clear in saying that Isaaqs themselves do not consider themselves Dir. His opinion in the matter is beside the point. You claimed that some Isaaq believe they are Dir, this is wrong. As reported by the most decorated Somali Studies professor. Isaaq (and he reports that some other Somalis did consider Isaaqs Dir) themselves deny it.





As for the Dir Boqor, again, my point is that this was a meeting of 'kin' according to you, yet no such language was used.

[zumaale]

Zumaale,

The alliance is not something I am throwing around, its the only explanation we have of the relationship of Isaaq and Dir other than Isaaq being part of Dir, something unacceptable to Isaaq. I have family members who are knee deep into the Arab myth, they still would not believe anything else. The alliance is their rational for Dir linkage, but also heard the same theory of Isaaq being protected by Maha Dir by others who did not mention the Arab myth.

You forget that the maternal relations that you are claiming are absolute folklore, I would believe the abtirsi more than a story that so and so married so and so from 300 years ago. I do not fully accept abtirsi to be without error, but it is an order of magnitude stronger than a sheeko like Arab Isaaq woman gave birth to Ogaden or Dhulbahante. Abtirsi is the only thing Somalis cared to preserve. It is not without error, but it is the only thing we have handed down in terms of history.

Dude, I am not using Lewis's thesis, I am quoting his reporting. He is clear in saying that Isaaqs themselves do not consider themselves Dir. His opinion in the matter is beside the point. You claimed that some Isaaq believe they are Dir, this is wrong. As reported by the most decorated Somali Studies professor. Isaaq (and he reports that some other Somalis did consider Isaaqs Dir) themselves deny it.





As for the Dir Boqor, again, my point is that this was a meeting of 'kin' according to you, yet no such language was used.

Firstly, something unacceptable to many Isaaq, not all of Isaaq. The alliance theory is the rationale put forward by the adherents of the the Bani Hashim myth, others subscribe to the subclan belief. If the fraudulent myth that propagated the alliance theory is now redundant then isn't the alliance theory also a sham? What is the other alternative reason for the so called 'alliance' apart from the subclan belief?

I stated that the neither maternal relations or abtirsi are reliable sources of historical information so why flog a dead horse?

I.M.Lewis is just one source of information, he ain't the Bible. You cannot dismiss Ambroso's statement on account of I.M.Lewis's research. Furthermore, it ain't like I.M.Lewis interviewed every Isaaq in the North. Just like there are Isaaqs that identify with Dir today, there were others that did during I.M.Lewis's time. It is not a modern phenomenon.

I never said it was a public meeting, I said there was a private meeting with Surres; not the one in the video so do not misquote me.

[Thanatophiliac]

Sahbizada. I didn't want to have to do this. But you leave me with no choice
You could have just left it. But no.

Here, have a blast mate:









Sahibzada, are you SomaliSultan on 23amdme? You two sound a lot alike
Can someone who is on 23andme please verify this. You need to first join the Haplogroup T Paternal forums and then you can read the thread.


https://www.23andme.com/you/community/thread/9707/

[Ben Dover]

Zumaale,

I have stated as an Isaaq that most Isaaq would never accept someone referring to them as Dir, I absolutely believe that. I am actually confident to say that you can ask the members you cited on this very forum theYusuf and others and they too will tell you that despite their acceptance of Dir, the vast majority of Isaaq do not share this belief.

Furthermore, I have quoted the scholar who has conducted the most extensive research on Somaliland tribes, by an order of magnitude more than any other Western scholar, I. M. Lewis, who despite reporting that some other Somalis do include Isaaq in Dir, made the clear distinction that Isaaqs themselves do not consider themselves Dir. He does not need to meet every single Isaaq to deduce as much, that would be mad, but he certainly met with most every single Isaaq subclan elders. He is as informed as you can get a non Isaaq.

The case is clear sxb, drop it. You will find a few Isaaqs who would claim Dir for any number of reasons, but the fact is the vast majority would never make such claim.

[zumaale]

Zumaale,

I have stated as an Isaaq that most Isaaq would never accept someone referring to them as Dir, I absolutely believe that. I am actually confident to say that you can ask the members you cited on this very forum theYusuf and others and they too will tell you that despite their acceptance of Dir, the vast majority of Isaaq do not share this belief.

Furthermore, I have quoted the scholar who has conducted the most extensive research on Somaliland tribes, by an order of magnitude more than any other Western scholar, I. M. Lewis, who despite reporting that some other Somalis do include Isaaq in Dir, made the clear distinction that Isaaqs themselves do not consider themselves Dir. He does not need to meet every single Isaaq to deduce as much, that would be mad, but he certainly met with most every single Isaaq subclan elders. He is as informed as you can get a non Isaaq.

The case is clear sxb, drop it. You will find a few Isaaqs who would claim Dir for any number of reasons, but the fact is the vast majority would never make such claim.

I never disputed that most Isaaqs identify with the Bani Hashim myth. Like I.M.Lewish stated, there was a clear attempt to forge a separate clan identity via the Bani Hashim myth and distance themselves from their Dir ancestry. My argument was that there are some that still identify Isaaq as a subclan of Maha Dir and reject the Bani Hashim myth; something you initially made out to be restricted to those that do it for political reasons.

It has been a pleasure debating you sir, have a good evening and God Bless.

[zumaale]

Sahbizada. I didn't want to have to do this. But you leave me with no choice
You could have just left it. But no.

Here, have a blast mate:









Sahibzada, are you SomaliSultan on 23amdme? You two sound a lot alike
Can someone who is on 23andme please verify this. You need to first join the Haplogroup T Paternal forums and then you can read the thread.


https://www.23andme.com/you/community/thread/9707/

My Nigga has no chill.

[Thanatophiliac]

My Nigga has no chill.

[Ben Dover]

I never disputed that most Isaaqs identify with the Bani Hashim myth. Like I.M.Lewish stated, there was a clear attempt to forge a separate clan identity via the Bani Hashim myth and distance themselves from their Dir ancestry. My argument was that there are some that still identify Isaaq as a subclan of Maha Dir and reject the Bani Hashim myth; something you initially made out to be restricted to those that do it for political reasons.

It has been a pleasure debating you sir, have a good evening and God Bless.

My argument is not that most Isaaqs identify with Bani Hashim myth (though I accept the statment is true), I am saying most Isaaq do not identify as Dir. There was no attempt to forge a 'separate' clan identity, it has always been Isaaq as the primary identity, the Arab shit is typical Somali oneupmanship (you open a hotel, well MY hotel is better than yours) with our neighbouring Darod. The vast majority of Isaaq would never accept the Maha Dir label, you try it outside your relative circle and see how the comments are received.

Pleasure all mine good sir. God bless.

[zumaale]

I never disputed that most Isaaqs identify with the Bani Hashim myth. Like I.M.Lewish stated, there was a clear attempt to forge a separate clan identity via the Bani Hashim myth and distance themselves from their Dir ancestry. My argument was that there are some that still identify Isaaq as a subclan of Maha Dir and reject the Bani Hashim myth; something you initially made out to be restricted to those that do it for political reasons.

It has been a pleasure debating you sir, have a good evening and God Bless.

My argument is not that most Isaaqs identify with Bani Hashim myth (though I accept the statment is true), I am saying most Isaaq do not identify as Dir. There was no attempt to forge a 'separate' clan identity, it has always been Isaaq as the primary identity, the Arab shit is typical Somali oneupmanship (you open a hotel, well MY hotel is better than yours) with our neighbouring Darod. The vast majority of Isaaq would never accept the Maha Dir label, you try it outside your relative circle and see how the comments are received.

Pleasure all mine good sir. God bless.

According to the scholar you hold in high esteem, there was an attempt to forge a separate clan identity; and by other Somalis too. Allah as my Witness, I have used it outside my relative circle. There were enough positive responses to know that there is a growing silent minority that are familiar with their roots.

Till the next time.

[Ben Dover]

I do hold him in high esteem because he has done the most extensive research out of any other foreigner on somalis, I do not think anyone denies this. He clearly reports Isaaqs opinion on the matter:

"They act as such because they so regard themselves"

and:

"... the Isaaq are of Dir origin although they themselves deny it."

It can not get any clearer.

He did not say that 'some' deny it, he understands, based on his experiences with the Isaaq elders he met, that they deny it and see themselves as Isaaq first. This is his first hand reporting on Isaaqs opinion as an uninvolved observer.

I can cite more but I think his statements are clear on Isaaqs views on the matter. His own thoughts are an entirely different thing. We are discussing whether Isaaqs themselves see and accept themselves as Dir. They dont.

You have the final word, take it away.

[zumaale]

I wasn't questioning the reasons why you hold him in high self esteem, I was merely pointing out the fact that the Bani Hashim myth was a means of establishing a separate clan identity was also found to be true by him.

Like I said before, no scholarly work can cover the feelings of a million plus people and their findings are based on who they have interactions with. Hence, neither Ambroso or I.M.Lewis can fully capture the feelings of your clan.

I agree most of your fellow clansmen have been heavily indoctrinated with the Bani Hashim myth and nothing will make them see reason, not even genetic genealogy. However, there has always existed a minority that continued to identify with a Dir ancestry as Ambroso highlighted and this is an undeniable fact.

[Sahibzada]

Sahbizada. I didn't want to have to do this. But you leave me with no choice
You could have just left it. But no.

Here, have a blast mate:



https://www.23andme.com/you/community/thread/9707/

That Somali saltaan dude is right..that nigga is probably sheegato,he might even be a garacbursi like yourself trying to degrade the royal house of Sacad Muuse.He has no strs results...so it isn't even confirmed
Anyways I already inboxed the dude...hopefully he replies

Here's a confirmed Garacbursi with E-V32

Modal E1b1b1a1a2-Dir E1b1b-V32
RuralMan08 SomaliNet Gadabursi Dir E1b1b-V32 13 15 11 12 15

Source:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... utput=html#

https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 4&start=15

Owned?

[Thanatophiliac]

Sahibzada, choose another guy! He wasn't Gadabursi. He was a known troll. He once claimed he was Isaaq, then Gadabursi, then Warsangeli Banu Hashim.
Should I prove it to you? He even used to claim he was Habr Awal and his family participated in the SNM .
Don't believe me? Look for yourself. I'll provide the links to his threads so you can see for yourself. I've print screened his messages

You can't use Ruralman08, in these threads he claims to be Habr Awal.



https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 8#p2726818




https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 1#p2729751

[Thanatophiliac]

Here he is praising the SNM, in some threads he claimed that his family all participated.




https://www.somalinet.com/forums/viewto ... 0#p2591520