Turkey to reopen Somalia embassy after 20 years

[eyes-only]

Although the politics behind all this leaves me with uncertainty and many unanswered questions, it was still good to see the Turkish PM in Xamar next to our dear president.

[Executive]

Coeus you are Marexan when are you going to admit it? are you ashamed or something?

Why would a marexaan constantly insult Siad Barre and his family?

[Voltage]

Secularism as Union and Roving understand it will never exist in Somalia. Forget about the aggressive secularism of Turkey and France, even the secularism of the US and UK can't exist in Somalia. While I am not so sure about Hudud Laws, Sharia as an overarching umbrella of Islamic law and traditions is inherently part of the Somali way of life. What we eat and how we eat is from Sharia. How we marry, whom we can marry, and the divorce structure is from Sharia. Our public holidays and conduct is from Sharia. Our tax structure and banking system is from Sharia. Etc etc etc. Islam is a way of life, not a mere Sunday-religion like Christianity. Laws of the nation are built with respect to the traditions and culture of the land and Somali culture and tradition is inseparable from the way of life Islam is and the legal parameters contained with it. I don't know where this Islamic Somalia guinea pig for Western secularism exists in Union and Roving's head but I can't fathom a Somalia that allows pork to be served at school, a Somalia whose public holidays aren't religious, a Somalia whose state religion isn't Islam, a Somalia who does not have a Muslim uniform at school, a Somali finance sector that deals with interest, etc etc etc.

Let us be real even among the Muslim societies currently present on earth, if Muslim societies were in a gradient with Turkey as the far-left symbol of secularism and Saudi Arabia as the far-right symbol of theocracy Somalis by virtue of their own culture and traditions would already be center-right.

[RovingMadness]

Voltage,

I don't disagree with you. But I don't want mullahs claiming they have divine right to rule.

[Voltage]

Voltage,

I don't disagree with you. But I don't want mullahs claiming they have divine right to rule.

I'm scared of that myself. The last thing I want to experience in my life is some self-righteous prick who believes he has a mandate from God to tell me how I need to dress or cut my hair in public.

[RovingMadness]

Then you should support Secularism

[Coeus]

Secularism is the way to peace,stability and development!

[Voltage]

No I don't, I am not in the habit of choosing between two extremes. I want a Somali state with Islam as its state religion, guided by Islamic principles with Islamic morality. When it comes to Somalia, I will never support secularism. The dominance of Islam as the state religion and the foundation and structure of society has to be acknowledged as it already is culturally and traditionally.That doesn't mean I want to live in Saudi Arabia or Iran or any of these places where men have ordained the power of God unto themselves. A center has to be navigated whereby you can both be a Muslim man in a Muslim country without allowing the nature of the state to be hijacked by mortals with ill-intentions with designs to misuse it.

[AhmedBoqor]

Secularism is the way to peace,stability and development!

Coeus, I've lost respect for you man. Secularism over Sharia?

[AhmedBoqor]

No I don't, I am not in the habit of choosing between two extremes. I want a Somali state with Islam as its state religion, guided by Islamic principles with Islamic morality. When it comes to Somalia, I will never support secularism. The dominance of Islam as the state religion and the foundation and structure of society has to be acknowledged. That doesn't mean I want to live in Saudi Arabia or Iran or any of these places where men have ordained the power of God unto themselves.

Couldn't have said it better, secularism will lead to a destructive path, maybe not in this world but its not the reason we've been given life to begin with.

[Voltage]

Secularism is the way to peace,stability and development!

Secularism means you have removed the power of Allah (swt) to be your central master. The essence of being a Muslims is accepting you are a slave, a servant to Allah (swt) who is your master. Among the essence of Iman is accepting that your master Allah (swt) has the right to give you both good and bad will because it is Allah's supreme right over you, his slave.

Secularism means you, the slave, have decided Allah (swt) is not your master who has supreme right over you to design your way of life which in effect means you have ceased being a Muslim.

To the closet agnostics/athiests, it is an understandable position for them to accept the stature of this disobedience against Allah (swt), but I want to understand if you do? That this is not a game.

[The_Emperior5]

I agree with voltage on this. Somalia and somalis are muslim the state religion should be islam and our morals and values come from islam but that said the country should not be run by lunatics and crazy youth who do not know how to govern a modern state in 21 century

[Coeus]

Secularism is the way to peace,stability and development!

Secularism means you have removed the power of Allah (swt) to be your central master. The essence of being a Muslims is accepting you are a slave, a servant to Allah (swt) who is your master. Among the essence of Iman is accepting that your master Allah (swt) has the right to give you both good and bad will because it is Allah's supreme right over you, his slave.

Secularism means you, the slave, have decided Allah (swt) is not your master who has supreme right over you to design your way of life which in effect means you have ceased being a Muslim.

To the closet agnostics/athiests, it is an understandable position for them to accept the stature of this disobedience against Allah (swt), but I want to understand if you do? That this is not a game.

My reasoning is that, Islam is made up out of so many sects (Mazhabs) and school of thoughts. We have Sunni, Shia and Wahabi. And under them we have many Mazhabs, such as Syafie, Maliki, Hanafi for the Sunnis, Jafariyah, Imamiyah for Shia. And under one Mazhabs, we have different school of thoughts.

So saxiib

Conclusion

1. Secularism limits religion is a sweeping statement. There are many types of secularism.

2. Any Islamic state, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia (and maybe Malaysia in future) limits Islam itself by enforcing ruling from certain Mazhabs only on all Muslims regardless of their mazhabs affiliation.

3. The claim that Shariah Law is to cater the needs of Muslims is therefore FALSE. The existing Shariah Law, or more appropriately should be call Syafi'e Law, will only cater the needs of Muslims from the Syafi'e sect while discriminating other Muslims from different Mazhabs.

4. In comparison between Sweden and the present Malaysia, the secular Sweden is more accommodating to Muslims compared to Malaysia.

5. Since secular Sweden is more accommodating to Muslims from different mazhabs compare to Malaysia, which is more Islamic in nature? Malaysia or Sweden?

[AhmedBoqor]

So saxiib

Conclusion

1. Secularism limits religion is a sweeping statement. There are many types of secularism.

2. Any Islamic state, Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia (and maybe Malaysia in future) limits Islam itself by enforcing ruling from certain Mazhabs only on all Muslims regardless of their mazhabs affiliation.

3. The claim that Shariah Law is to cater the needs of Muslims is therefore FALSE. The existing Shariah Law, or more appropriately should be call Syafi'e Law, will only cater the needs of Muslims from the Syafi'e sect while discriminating other Muslims from different Mazhabs.

4. In comparison between Sweden and the present Malaysia, the secular Sweden is more accommodating to Muslims compared to Malaysia.

5. Since secular Sweden is more accommodating to Muslims from different mazhabs compare to Malaysia, which is more Islamic in nature? Malaysia or Sweden?

What are you talking about sxb? are you telling me just because some other Muslim countries decided to limit their Islamic laws because of "differences in mazhabs" is that we should follow suit? if you need examples, look no further than the early Khilafahs, I wouldn't even consider the ottomans to be the best example of Islamic state governed by Islamic laws but even that was better than what some Muslims countries have.

[Voltage]

Somalis are an overwhelming Shafici society and in any case what differences in Madhabs exist for you to call Shafici and Hanbali a "sect". A "sect' is a group that has inherently different theological and ecclesiastical positions. Saying Somalia is a Muslim state, doesn't mean the government is going to choose how you hold your hands in prayer based on what madhab you follow. I think your problem is you are lacking knowledge of Islam in general.

I'm afraid your reasoning for secularism are not much of reasons especially as it relates to difference of Muslims to practice within their own school of thoughts, which I remind you again are not based on different theological positions but in fact are carbon copy of each other. Also your understanding of the term "Sharia" begs much to be desired. Sharia is not a "thing". Sharia is an overarching traditions and rulings and consensus on Islam from the time of the prophet to now. Its comparison in English is "law", and in Islam is translate the way. Sharia is not a specific law, Sharia is law. It is a recording of centuries of arguments and precedents on multi-faceted number of subjects. For example, giving agreeing with the family about dowry and paying that dowry is "Sharia". Having Friday as the off day for rest and relaxation is "Sharia". Not eating pork is "Sharia". Even the customary Somali law where a killer is asked for blood money or put to the sword is "Sharia". Sharia is already very much part of Somali cultural and traditional law so in a situation where the laws of the country will be formulated they should reflect the values and customs of Somalis which is already Sharia-complaint. Your secularism analysis really has no legs to stand on.