I want a secular Somalia

[Alphanumeric]

Yes, I realize it's haraam between a married man and woman. But punishable? How?

@ meta yeah, special cases like sodomy (not homosexuality) for example are handed over to the Islamic courts if the accused is Muslim. Famous example, which is kinda relevent is the MP who was caught on tape fornicating with another man, with the footage being used as evidence. don't know if he got off or not (no pun intended).

I remember that case. But how do you differentiate sodomy and homosexuality? Is it the act itself?

yes. imo at least. tons of flamboyant men here and even transgenders so I think its safe to assume alo pretty sure hetero sodomy is punished if ample evidence is present.

Wait, still confused. How is homosexuality dealt with? Wasn't that case between two men?

shirib, isn't Somalia like 99% Muslim, what happens to the 1%?

Democracy happens.

[Shirib]

You seriously don't see the problem with that?

No in the case of zinna, they strictly want witnesses. Evidence is not enough, otherwise, every woman oo wecel yeeshati would be getting flogged

[union]

Coeus, the Islamist sympathizers have made a rather poor showing in this thread, haven't they?
Their inability to come up with a cogent argument as to why we should have an Islamist state, other than some incoherent jibble jabble that boils down to "cuz god says so", demonstrates that they will not succeed in establishing their al qadea fantasyland.

Let's leave them w/ some quotes from Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, hero of secularism and conqueror of the calphihate:

Religion is an important institution. A nation without religion cannot survive. Yet it is also very important to note that religion is a link between Allah and the individual believer. The brokerage of the pious cannot be permitted. Those who use religion for their own benefit are detestable. We are against such a situation and will not allow it. Those who use religion in such a manner have fooled our people; it is against just such people that we have fought and will continue to fight. Know that whatever conforms to reason, logic, and the advantages and needs of our people conforms equally to Islam. If our religion did not conform to reason and logic, it would not be the perfect religion, the final religion.

The nation has placed its faith in the precept that all laws should be inspired by actual needs here on earth as a basic fact of national life.

Very beutiful quotes, Kemal was a visionary in a declining empire, and he saw the importance of carving out Turkey before losing all of it to Armenians and russians.

He fought back the invaders, saved Turkey from going under with the dying caliphate and restored it to a position of leadership.
Kemal Ataturk was the greatest man of the 20th century.

[union]

You seriously don't see the problem with that?

No in the case of zinna, they strictly want witnesses. Evidence is not enough, otherwise, every woman oo wecel yeeshati would be getting flogged

Videotape of a man penetrating a whore is not evidence of fornication?

[Shirib]

@ meta yeah, special cases like sodomy (not homosexuality) for example are handed over to the Islamic courts if the accused is Muslim. Famous example, which is kinda relevent is the MP who was caught on tape fornicating with another man, with the footage being used as evidence. don't know if he got off or not (no pun intended).

I remember that case. But how do you differentiate sodomy and homosexuality? Is it the act itself?

yes. imo at least. tons of flamboyant men here and even transgenders so I think its safe to assume alo pretty sure hetero sodomy is punished if ample evidence is present.

shirib, isn't Somalia like 99% Muslim, what happens to the 1%?

throw a bunch of .999 after that 99%. There's no way Somalia is a whole 1% non Muslim. A Somali who is not Muslim is an anomally. There's probably one in every several thousand.

[Keyblade]

Alpha, so if a non-Muslim minority feels they want to bank in a different way because they feel its more profitable, they can't because its against the law of a religion they don't believe in?

[Shirib]

You seriously don't see the problem with that?

No in the case of zinna, they strictly want witnesses. Evidence is not enough, otherwise, every woman oo wecel yeeshati would be getting flogged

Videotape of a man penetrating a whore is not evidence of fornication?

ofcourse it's evidence, but islamically speaking, the ruling wants four witnesses who actually saw it. Evidence does not take place of witnesses for zinna.

[metamorphosis]

Shrib hows that anomoly? we are having an influx of the ayan hirsi type. I personally think the number is higher than 1%.

[union]

No in the case of zinna, they strictly want witnesses. Evidence is not enough, otherwise, every woman oo wecel yeeshati would be getting flogged

Videotape of a man penetrating a whore is not evidence of fornication?

ofcourse it's evidence, but islamically speaking, the ruling wants four witnesses who actually saw it. Evidence does not take place of witnesses for zinna.

What is the witness requirement for rape?

[MrSinister]

I'm pleased to see more somali's realizing the neccesity of secularism.

[Alphanumeric]

Key, the question is, is the religion the law of the land they live in? I'm no expert on Shari'ah. Haven't even taken a formal class in it. I can't say what is correct or not. Though interest is a major societal problem. What if they feel marijuana sales create a livelihood they deem desirable? Should that be outlawed? The problem here is, when we begin to appease a few, you must appease all. I don't think there's a middle ground with democracy. It is simply the majority being victorious over the few. If that is overlooked, and the government steps in, then where is democracy? It doesn't work.

What should be done? I have no idea.

There's probably one in every several thousand.

That's a pretty big number

[Shirib]

Shrib hows that anomoly? we are having an influx of the ayan hirsi type. I personally think the number is higher than 1%.

how many Somali's do you know? How many of them are gaal? Is one out of 100 Somali's u know gaal?

[Shirib]

What is the witness requirement for rape?

u don't need them

[Shirib]

There's probably one in every several thousand.

That's a pretty big number

I know thousands of Somali's in real life, and haven't met one that isn't Muslim.

Only seen Somali's oo gaal ah online and on tv.

[Based]

Are you sure? Some scholars believe that an unmarried woman's pregnancy is evidence of zina, despite the possibility of rape.