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Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:04 pm
by Alphanumeric
Yes, I realize it's haraam between a married man and woman. But punishable? How?
Keyblade wrote:Alphanumeric wrote:Keyblade wrote:@ meta yeah, special cases like sodomy (not homosexuality) for example are handed over to the Islamic courts if the accused is Muslim. Famous example, which is kinda relevent is the MP who was caught on tape fornicating with another man, with the footage being used as evidence. don't know if he got off or not (no pun intended).
I remember that case. But how do you differentiate sodomy and homosexuality? Is it the act itself?
yes. imo at least. tons of flamboyant men here and even transgenders so I think its safe to assume alo pretty sure hetero sodomy is punished if ample evidence is present.
Wait, still confused. How is homosexuality dealt with? Wasn't that case between two men?
shirib, isn't Somalia like 99% Muslim, what happens to the 1%?
Democracy happens.
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:07 pm
by Shirib
Based wrote:You seriously don't see the problem with that?
No in the case of zinna, they strictly want witnesses. Evidence is not enough, otherwise, every woman oo wecel yeeshati would be getting flogged
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:07 pm
by union
Coeus wrote:union wrote:Coeus, the Islamist sympathizers have made a rather poor showing in this thread, haven't they?
Their inability to come up with a cogent argument as to why we should have an Islamist state, other than some incoherent jibble jabble that boils down to "cuz god says so", demonstrates that they will not succeed in establishing their al qadea fantasyland.
Let's leave them w/ some quotes from Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, hero of secularism and conqueror of the calphihate:
Religion is an important institution. A nation without religion cannot survive. Yet it is also very important to note that religion is a link between Allah and the individual believer. The brokerage of the pious cannot be permitted. Those who use religion for their own benefit are detestable. We are against such a situation and will not allow it. Those who use religion in such a manner have fooled our people; it is against just such people that we have fought and will continue to fight. Know that whatever conforms to reason, logic, and the advantages and needs of our people conforms equally to Islam. If our religion did not conform to reason and logic, it would not be the perfect religion, the final religion.
The nation has placed its faith in the precept that all laws should be inspired by actual needs here on earth as a basic fact of national life.
Very beutiful quotes, Kemal was a visionary in a declining empire, and he saw the importance of carving out Turkey before losing all of it to Armenians and russians.
He fought back the invaders, saved Turkey from going under with the dying caliphate and restored it to a position of leadership.
Kemal Ataturk was the greatest man of the 20th century.
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:08 pm
by union
Shirib wrote:Based wrote:You seriously don't see the problem with that?
No in the case of zinna, they strictly want witnesses. Evidence is not enough, otherwise, every woman oo wecel yeeshati would be getting flogged
Videotape of a man penetrating a whore is not evidence of fornication?
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:09 pm
by Shirib
Keyblade wrote:Alphanumeric wrote:Keyblade wrote:@ meta yeah, special cases like sodomy (not homosexuality) for example are handed over to the Islamic courts if the accused is Muslim. Famous example, which is kinda relevent is the MP who was caught on tape fornicating with another man, with the footage being used as evidence. don't know if he got off or not (no pun intended).
I remember that case. But how do you differentiate sodomy and homosexuality? Is it the act itself?
yes. imo at least. tons of flamboyant men here and even transgenders so I think its safe to assume alo pretty sure hetero sodomy is punished if ample evidence is present.
shirib, isn't Somalia like 99% Muslim, what happens to the 1%?
throw a bunch of .999 after that 99%. There's no way Somalia is a whole 1% non Muslim. A Somali who is not Muslim is an anomally. There's probably one in every several thousand.
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:10 pm
by Keyblade
Alpha, so if a non-Muslim minority feels they want to bank in a different way because they feel its more profitable, they can't because its against the law of a religion they don't believe in?
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:11 pm
by Shirib
union wrote:Shirib wrote:Based wrote:You seriously don't see the problem with that?
No in the case of zinna, they strictly want witnesses. Evidence is not enough, otherwise, every woman oo wecel yeeshati would be getting flogged
Videotape of a man penetrating a whore is not evidence of fornication?
ofcourse it's evidence, but islamically speaking, the ruling wants four witnesses who actually saw it. Evidence does not take place of witnesses for zinna.
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:15 pm
by metamorphosis
Shrib hows that anomoly? we are having an influx of the ayan hirsi type. I personally think the number is higher than 1%.
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:15 pm
by union
Shirib wrote:union wrote:Shirib wrote:
No in the case of zinna, they strictly want witnesses. Evidence is not enough, otherwise, every woman oo wecel yeeshati would be getting flogged
Videotape of a man penetrating a whore is not evidence of fornication?
ofcourse it's evidence, but islamically speaking, the ruling wants four witnesses who actually saw it. Evidence does not take place of witnesses for zinna.
What is the witness requirement for rape?
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:16 pm
by MrSinister
I'm pleased to see more somali's realizing the neccesity of secularism.
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:17 pm
by Alphanumeric
Key, the question is, is the religion the law of the land they live in? I'm no expert on Shari'ah. Haven't even taken a formal class in it. I can't say what is correct or not. Though interest is a major societal problem. What if they feel marijuana sales create a livelihood they deem desirable? Should that be outlawed? The problem here is, when we begin to appease a few, you must appease all. I don't think there's a middle ground with democracy. It is simply the majority being victorious over the few. If that is overlooked, and the government steps in, then where is democracy? It doesn't work.
What
should be done? I have no idea.
Shirib wrote: There's probably one in every several thousand.
That's a pretty big number
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm
by Shirib
metamorphosis wrote:Shrib hows that anomoly? we are having an influx of the ayan hirsi type. I personally think the number is higher than 1%.
how many Somali's do you know? How many of them are gaal? Is one out of 100 Somali's u know gaal?
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:21 pm
by Shirib
union wrote:What is the witness requirement for rape?
u don't need them
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:24 pm
by Shirib
Alphanumeric wrote:Shirib wrote: There's probably one in every several thousand.
That's a pretty big number
I know thousands of Somali's in real life, and haven't met one that isn't Muslim.
Only seen Somali's oo gaal ah online and on tv.
Re: I want a secular Somalia
Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:24 pm
by Based
Are you sure? Some scholars believe that an unmarried woman's pregnancy is evidence of zina, despite the possibility of rape.