I want a secular Somalia

[Based]

wait, an unmarried woman's pregnancy isn't considered evidence of zina? so basically the law is don't let 4 people catch you doing it? I'm sure there's some flexibility in this law shirib.

and union, what's coercive rape?

yea, that's pretty much the law, don't get caught. If we were actually following sharia (not the hastiness of Al Shabaab and co.), it's near impossible to prove fornication. The only time the prophet saw administered the punishment was after a person came and admitted the sin, time and time again.

but isn't that punishment going against the letter of the law as confession =/= witnesses. I think that proves the answer is closer to abdis explanation.

I think if a person confesses 4 times or something, the punishment must be carried out.

[union]

Yea, what are the chances of someone who isn't mentally unstable admitting 4 times to a crime which will lead them being stoned to death or lashed?

[Alphanumeric]

Based, I believe you're thinking of a husband and wife, accusing one or the other of zina. The each swear four times of the accusation or their innocence, and a 5th for a curse on them if they are lying. This is surah Noor, first page. Forget the ayah.

[Keyblade]

It's impressive that we have our own set of scholar's and ulama on Snet, who needs to have a working knowledge of an Islamic administration in the first place? (sarcsam intended)

What's wrong with discussion? Nobody's purporting to be a scholar, but you don't need qualifications to discuss certain straightforward aspects of Islam.

[union]

It's impressive that we have our own set of scholar's and ulama on Snet, who needs to have a working knowledge of an Islamic administration in the first place? (sarcsam intended)

There's nothing wrong with discussion. Condescension is unwarranted.

Squabbling about the circumstances in which it's ok to stone people to death for having sex is just another reason to appreciate the wisdom of secularism.

[Saraxnow]

@Based, what is Shariah to you?

Corporal punishment is the first thing you mentioned.


@Alpha, degrading the position of Shariah into simple hand-cutting and stoning exercise here warrants more than that.

[Shirib]

Yea, what are the chances of someone who isn't mentally unstable admitting 4 times to a crime which will lead them being stoned to death or lashed?

spiritual relief. The idea is if u get the punishment on earth, ull be spared in the hear after.

[Based]

Yea, what are the chances of someone who isn't mentally unstable admitting 4 times to a crime which will lead them being stoned to death or lashed?

I think the rationale is that once the punishment is carried out, God will forgive the sin. If the punishment is not carried out, God might punish them in the afterlife.

I think I'd take that risk, tbh

Based, I believe you're thinking of a husband and wife, accusing one or the other of zina. The each swear four times of the accusation or their innocence, and a 5th for a curse on them if they are lying. This is surah Noor, first page. Forget the ayah.

I don't know man, I'm pretty sure that other than the four witnesses, four sincere confessions of guilt are the only acceptable "proof" of zina.

[union]

Yea, what are the chances of someone who isn't mentally unstable admitting 4 times to a crime which will lead them being stoned to death or lashed?

spiritual relief. The idea is if u get the punishment on earth, ull be spared in the hear after.

That's what hajj is for, bro

[Based]

@Based, what is Shariah to you?

Corporal punishment is the first thing you mentioned.

I'm not trying to reduce the Shari'ah to only hudud punishments.

@Union, Hajj does not purify you of all sins i.e. murder, if I'm not mistaken.

[union]

^
But it does clear you of zina, or else a lot of folks are in trouble.

[Alphanumeric]

Based,

I believe this is what you're referring to

And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies (i.e. testifies four times) by Allāh that he is one of those who speak the truth. (An-Nur 24:6) And the fifth (testimony) (should be) the invoking of the Curse of Allāh on him if he be of those who tell a lie (against her). (An-Nur 24:7)

@Based, what is Shariah to you?

Corporal punishment is the first thing you mentioned.


@Alpha, degrading the position of Shariah into simple hand-cutting and stoning exercise here warrants more than that.

You can either take part or leave. It isn't that difficult.

[Thuganomics]

@Based, what is Shariah to you?

Corporal punishment is the first thing you mentioned.

I'm not trying to reduce the Shari'ah to only hudud punishments.

@Union, Hajj does not purify you of all sins i.e. murder, if I'm not mistaken.

Hajj only purifies your transgressions against Allah swt except Shirk
Not your sins against other human beings.That's why you can't perform Haj if you still owe money to somebody etc etc

[Saraxnow]

^^Murder is one of first the crimes that will be judged on the qiyamah according to a hadith somewhere(not sure). If we're talking secularism of the state as opposed to an 'Islamic' one has it occurred to anyone else that there is no 'modern' Islamic model in the first place? I believe this has to be solved first before we go on to look to implement shariah.

You can either take part or leave. It isn't that difficult.

I'm pretty sure I didn't really look for an approval somewhere, let me get back to you on that.

[Based]

Based,

I believe this is what you're referring to

And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies (i.e. testifies four times) by Allāh that he is one of those who speak the truth. (An-Nur 24:6) And the fifth (testimony) (should be) the invoking of the Curse of Allāh on him if he be of those who tell a lie (against her). (An-Nur 24:7)

I'm not talking about that verse. I'm almost 100% certain that there are only two methods of proving zina: either the person confessing four times, or four males witnessing the act. I don't remember the specific hadith, but I remember something about a guy coming up to the Prophet saw and confessing adultery, and the Prophet turning him away a number of times but finally ordering his punishment after the guy kept coming back and confessing.