SomaliNet Forums

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:43 pm**

Meyle wrote:Wrong! Somalia is derived from Somalia Italiana which was the colonial name. When former British Somaliland united with former Somalia Italiana in July 1, 1960. The Somali republic was created. We have never been part of Somalia and never will. You can lie to yourself but that won't change the reality.

Of course the term “Somalia” – which, incidentally, means “land of the Somali” -- is derived from Italian Somalia (better known as Italian Somaliland).

However, the territory of Italian Somaliland/Italian Somalia was not the same as the Somali Republic. Italian Somaliland included northeastern, central and southern present-day Somalia. The Somali Republic, on the other hand, included all of that area plus the former British Somaliland protectorate in the northwest.

Also remember that, although this is often claimed, Italian Somaliland did not actually unite with British Somaliland. It was Italian Somaliland's successor, the Trust Territory of Somalia (a UN trusteeship) that united with British Somaliland's successor, the five-day old State of Somaliland. The union of these two successor territories on July 1, 1960 formed the Somali Republic/Somalia.

Thus, if you remove the present-day Somaliland region from the rest of the country, you don't get “Somalia and Somaliland”. What you actually get is “Italian Somaliland and British Somaliland” (or, more accurately, the “Trust Territory of Somalia and the State of Somaliland”).

So yes, Somaliland was indeed always a part of Somalia.

By the way, the explorer Sir Richard Francis Burton wrote a book back in the day that refers to the same present-day territory as “Somalia”. It is titled Somalia expedition papers: and, Narrative of a trip to Horar Holo and was published in 1855. There are other such early works too.

You may therefore want to revise your theory that the term “Somalia” was a colonial invention. Pre-colonial would appear more accurate.

Meyle wrote:Are you trying to deny the land we settle? Isaaq sub sub sub sub clans specifically from Sacad Muuse settle in the outskirts of Lughaya which is in Awdal.

Sure, but is it their degaan/clan stronghold?

Of course not because that's Gadabuursi territory overall. Just like Togdheer and Woqooyi Galbeed are Isaaq territory overall, although some neighbouring Harti and Gadabuursi have settled there as well.

Meyle wrote:Sanaag is Isaaq majority and half of that region belongs to Isaaq. How can it be Harti stronghold?

Actually, Sanaag is a Warsangali majority, though there are some Isaaq settlements toward the west.

The Futuh al-Habash was also written during the Middle Ages, not the present. So when its author Shihab ad-Din indicated that Meit was a Harti stronghold, he was talking about that time period.

Meyle wrote:I never wrote that the Futuh al-Habasha stated that. I wrote that I was familiar with the book itself, as well as Somalis being referred to as eastern Berbers and that their capital was Berbera.

You wrote that “I'm familiar with Futuh al-Habasha and Somalis being referred to as Berbers and the capital of eastern Berbers being Berbera etc. but that's beside the point.”

The Futuh indeed doesn't state the bolded part.

Meyle wrote:Again you're wrong. It was part of Axum, wether it was direct or indirect doesn't matter.
[…]
Wether eastern Berbers lived there or not doesn't matter. They reached the shores of Seylac which was part of the Axumite empire.

In other words, they reached the shores of the Axumite empire.

Put it this way: Zeila/Avalites was about as much a part of the Kingdom of Axum as the Sultanate of Adal was a part of the Ethiopian Empire.

Both were independent polities, who paid tribute (i.e. submitted commodities) to a larger empire inhabited and ruled by different but ultimately related people.

Meyle wrote:Here's another quote disproving your argument.
Clearly, most of the Berber ports listed in the Periplus lay along the coast of present-day Somaliland, which was then part of, or a vassal to, the Axumite Kingdom

That's laughably wrong.

Dear fellow, Opone, Mosylon, Pano and the Market and Cape of Spices are some of the main Berber ports described in the Periplus. All four were situated in present-day Puntland in the northeast (look again at the Periplus map on the previous page). In fact, an actual British/Somali joint archaeological excavation in the 1970s confirmed that the old village of Damo in the far northeast was likely the Periplus' Market and Cape of Spices. The researchers recovered many ancient artefacts there, including old coins and Roman pottery. For its part, Mosylon is believed to be present-day Bosaso.

There were two Berber ports that were in modern-day Somaliland in the northwest: Mundus and Malao.

Further west was the Berber port of Avalites, which was likely in present-day Awdal.

In southern Somalia, there lived a people that the Periplus refers to as the “Azanians”. They were in all probability a separate Cushitic group based on the physical and material description left of them. The Azanian ports included Sarapion (which was perhaps in modern-day Mogadishu or Warsheikh), Nikon and Rhapta way down in the Tanzania area (this was before Bantus had moved into that region).

Again, I encourage you to read the Periplus itself. It's all in there.

Meyle wrote:Wether he was Darood or not doesn't matter. He didn't rule the city nor did he rule the surrouning areas, matter of fact no Somali did until Emir Sharmaarke Cali Saalax took over the town.

If he was a descendant, he would be in your main abtirsi but he's not.

Gerad Lado wasn't a clan forefather. He was just a prominent ruler.

Lado was, though, the Governor of Zeila in the late 1500s. So yes, he certainly did administer the town.

Gerad Lado hired a Khaleeji fellow by the name of 'Atlya ibn Muhammad to build a wall around the city. This was done to protect the reer magaal from raids by reer miyi, who would often sack the place.

This was all well before the Egyptian, Ottoman and Sharmarke periods of rule. Sharmarke purchased the governorship relatively recently, in the 1800s.

Meyle wrote:Besides how can Garad Lado be Darood when the father of Darood clan Cabdiraxmaan al Jabarti died approximately 50 years before this man was born.

Actually, Abdirahman bin Ismail al-Jabarti is believed to have lived in the 10th or 11th centuries.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:48 pm**

gurey25 wrote:Garaad is a title used by allot of cushtic people, the hararis used it.

Yeah, Hararis and other Ethiopian Muslims did/do use a variation of the title, “Al-Jaraad”.

Among Somalis, though, it is mainly associated with the Darod. One of the earliest rulers to use the title "Garad"/"Gerad" (and even before Gerad Lado of Zeila) was Gerad Dhidhin, who founded the Warsangali Sultanate in 1298.

The pan-Somali titles are "Boqor" and "Suldaan". Boqor is probably the oldest. According to Yuri Kobishchanow, it is related to the ancient Meroitic royal title "Paqar".

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:20 pm**

Bilis,

You have so much knowledge on Somali ancient history.

Keep this thread alive and share with us all the knowledge you have please.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:53 pm**

Your logic is something else..

The area stretching from Raas Caseyr to Raas Kamboni was known as Somalia Italiana. We were never part of that territory, neither was Somaliland part of it's successor, the trust territory of Somalia.

July 1, 1960 when the two entities united the name Somali republic was adopted, when the Somali republic dissolved in 1991, we reclaimed our independence.

So your argument that we were part of Somalia has no basis in reality.

You said that Awdal was a Gadubiirsi degaan. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the word deegaan, it roughly means turf. Awdal as a region is not their turf because you have other clans living there as well both the Ciise and few Sacad Muuse (Isaaq), for instance they can't claim the city Lowyacado because it belongs to Ciise. They might be majority but still that doesn't make the entire region their turf.

Sanaag is divided into following districts;

Xiis & Maydh - Isaaq
Ceel Afweyn - Isaaq
Cerigaabo - Shared, but the city is majority Isaaq
Laas Qoray- Warsangeli
Badhan - Warsangeli

Population wise, the HY and HJ subclans of Isaaq outnumber the Harti clans. So how can it be a Harti strongold? You used the word stronghold in the same sentence you mentioned Awdal being Gadubiirsi deegaan. You never used it in a historical context.

I said I was familiar with book itself and that Somalis were referred to as eastern Berbers and their capital being Berbera. I didn't imply that it was stated in the book Futuh al Habasha.

You still haven't disproved the fact that Seylac was part of the Axumite empire. Wether that author I quoted made a simple mistake is beside the point. The conclusion is that Seylac and western parts of Somaliland was part of the Axumite empire.

Awdal is indeed part of Somaliland wether you like it or not. That's where we recreated Somaliland in 1993. There's no such thing as north west or Maroodi Jeex + Togdheer being modern day Somaliland because Somaliland = former British Somaliland.

Garad Lado was the port ruler, that doesn't imply that he was in charge of the town itself nor was he in charge of the surrounding areas.

All Arab sources regarding Cabdiraxmaan al Jabarti state that he died in early 1400's meaning that he died approximately 50 years before Garad Lado was born. Now if he was a descendant as you predicate, he would be in the main abtirsi of all Darood clans because it would simply mean he was among the first descandants of Cabdiraxmaan al Jabarti.

Posted: **Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:22 pm**

That is an interesting possibility. I'm unsure as to when the Imazighen were first referred to as Berbers, as I cannot yet find a reliable source on it, but it's my belief that the Somalis were known as Berbers by the Arabs and ancient Greeks, named after the port city of Berbera, before it was used to refer to the Imazighen. It may have been later applied to other groups in Africa who seemed similar in appearance to the Somalis. Somalis have not been called Berbers for centuries while the Imazighen are still currently known as Berbers. So I think that sources that use the word "Berber" are discussing either the Imazighen or Somalis but rarely both.

"Moor" is sometimes used interchangeably with "Berber" (the Imazighen). Somalis were never known as Moors so I suspect that the author who referred to Somalis as such merely made the mistake of assuming that Moor and Berber can be used synonymously.

Somalia is not the only East African nation so we need to know which area in East Africa Ibnul-al-Hajab governed.

I doubt he was Somali as he provided Berber soldiers and Arab officers. And, I may be incorrect, but I don't think Somalia has had Arab governors.

The rest of the quotes are not persuasive and do not even suggest that Somalis may have taken part in the conquest or rule of Al-Andalus.

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:23 am**

Meyle wrote:
Jasmine6 wrote:
Meyle wrote:The city and the surrounding areas were always occupied by foreigners until Isaaq took over the city and the region by force in the 18th century

Sometimes you got to be qabiilocentric

Where did the Isaaqs in Zaylac go and did they use British weapons

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:34 am**

Isaaqs will never take Awdal infact...is there even 10 isaaqs in Awdal

give me a day to get proper sources, and link all the info
to defend my tol from people who
Say they live on the borders of lawya cadde *DEAD* LMFAO

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:45 am**

Awdal is a Samaroon/Gadabursi stronghold

Awdal, i hope this isn't wrong to say but has the oldest history in Somalia

many want to claim us, but everyone knows who is from there and whose land it is, and that's Samaroon Mahe Dir

Idoor Mahe Dir stick with the Desert in which the British made blossom,

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:32 am**

Qudhunbiirsi,

You were living like a slave under the Arabs and Turks. Seylac is supposedly on of your cities, how come foreigners occupied it? How come you couldn't secure it? It's because your weak and useless. If it wasn't for Emir Sharmaarke Cali Saalax, an Isaaq man, in 1870 before the colonialists. The city would still be under foreigners. He is the one who kicked them with the help of Isaaq army.

Lol @ with the help of the British. Brainwashed by the faqash propaganda I see.

Isaaq is not Dir and never was. We were known as Isaaq throughout history.

Just look at your name and avatar inaad slave tahay :pac:

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:36 am**

Meyle wrote:Qudhunbiirsi,
*Gadabuusi/Samaroon the Noble son of Mahe, rather then a wecel named idoor from a magician named Bucur Bacayr and cursed to live in forsaken land.

You were living like a slave under the Arabs and Turks. Seylac is supposedly on of your cities, how come foreigners occupied it? How come you couldn't secure it? It's because your weak and useless.
Thanks for doing our dirty work
The Ottomons and Arabs spoke of reer Zaylac and know of beesha awdal and our history, either way reer Zaylac stay winning, no matter who we use lol

If it wasn't for Emir Sharmaarke Cali Saalax, an Isaaq man, in 1870 before the colonialists. The city would still be under foreigners. He is the one who kicked them with the help of Isaaq army.

Zaylac was a metropolitan city biggest on the coast, full of many different types of people though the land belonged to Samaroon, it is our New york/Paris , where the prophet crossed over to and built Masjid Al Qibaltain, MASHALLAH
I love all reer zaylicis equally, it is our town, no matter what Idoor looks in our direction with envy with a brutish musket. BTW where are the Idoor in Awdal, what happened to them after their "army" lol
When where somalis ever slaves? Get your bullshit out of here,that statement is automatically false,
Lol @ with the help of the British. Brainwashed by the faqash propaganda I see.
Faqash? Facts are Facts Idoor,everyone knows the truth, I don't feel like posting shameful history just now, we know who conspired with the gaal to help their shameless clan, Oh look a brit is comming bow waryaa lol

Isaaq is not Dir and never was. We were known as Isaaq throughout history.
Idoor Mahe Dir was Dir and some were Wecel of Bucur Bacayr and converted by Shiekh Isxaaq AUN

Just look at your name and avatar inaad slave tahay
My name isn't Idoor nor Adoon, nor was I looked down upon for centuries until the British appeared on the shores I am royalty by birthright and by blood, my fathers are from the oldest and noblest tribe in Somali History wecels provide easy amusement on a boring day

Please remove all lies and Idoor propaganda, your betters are watching little brother, :smugruss:

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:37 am**

The name Iidor was a term the Ogaden used because Isaaq were merchants and from the port of Berbera commodities like rice, dates, clothes etc. were transported to the hinterland and we used to choose for them what they would get and the Ogadens would barter livestock for clothes and food. They would even exchange their daughters and thats why most older Isaaq got Ogaden blood somewhere down the line including my own family, my maternal side.

The name simply means the one that chooses for me.

Isaaq are the descendants of Sheikh Isxaaq bin Axmed. We're not Oromo like you :pac:

Qudhunbiirsi are not Mahe Dir, they are Mandaluug Dir and what's Beesha Awdal? You're not even mentioned in the book Futuh al Habasha that revolves around Seylac and the Adal sultanate. You were not even Somali back then you were a f-king Oromo. :pac:

Emir Sharmaarke Cali Salaax was controlling Seylac for 30 years and before he left he made an Afar man the governor of Seylac again no Qudhunbiirsi whatsoever.

You were a slave and this is during colonialism in early 1900's.

Only you and the Darood carried white men and women on their back as duud xamaals. :Heh:

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:45 am**

Iidor was a term the Ogaden used because Isaaq were merchants and from the port of Berbera commodities like rice, dates, clothes etc. were transported to the hinterland and we used to choose for them what they would get and the Ogadens would barter livestock for clothes and food. They would even exchange their daughters and thats why most older Isaaq got Ogaden blood somewhere down the line including my own family, my maternal side.

The name simply means the one that chooses for me.

Isaaq are the descendants of Sheikh Isxaaq bin Axmed. We're not Oromo like you and the name Gudobiirsi actually means Garac/Wecel.

Qudhunbiirsi are not Mahe Dir, they are Mandaluug Dir and what's Beesha Awdal? You're not even mentioned in the book Futuh al Habasha that revolves around Seylac and the Adal sultanate. You were not even Somali back then you were a f-king Oromo. :pac:

Emir Sharmaarke Cali Salaax was controlling Seylac for 30 years and before he left he made an Afar man the governor of Seylac again no Qudhunbiirsi whatsoever.

You were always a slave and this is during colonialism in early 1900's.

Only you and the Darood carried white men and women on their backs as duud xamaals. :Heh:

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:41 pm**

Awdal is synomous with Dir and Gadabursi, the Makadoor were fighting the habashi before Ahmed Gurey, though our little mahe brothers Idoors will always remain jealous of our numbers and our history, Little brother,
Samaroon carrying white men on their backs? That is just laughable when the entire Somalia plus nfd knows Idoor were their adoons. Ask every Somali now and say who carried the brits on chairs, they will say IDOOR,
BECAUSE the Cisse and Samaoon revolted against the British in Zaylac , The treaty with them wasn't even signed on Somali soil but on the ocean/coast, we didn't give out daughters, we didn't let them build churches, we didn't help them in away way, we didn't let them build a street to rape somali women, so naturally the only ones left licking their boots in Zaylac, are the same people as always IDOOR :smugruss:

the city does not matter but those doing the action does, the people in that photo are 100% Idoor shakaalo leftovers of Dir nobility in Zaylac, and their history of helping the Gaalo Brits are known throughout the world,if you were to go to Somaliland now and to ask who are carrying the british in that photo, they will say, "Idoor waye"
Also, the British regarded the Idoor as the "friendly tribes" and provided food, clothing and Christianity to Beesha Idoor, the story of FatherKa in Burco is well known throughout the region, their conversion from ISLAM to Christianity, unlike reer Dir Zaylac who kept their Diin with Allah and fought the Brits.
Yet all Idoor can muster against Samaroon is a photo of Idoors carrying the Brits in Zaylac

though Idoor my little Mahe brothers feel no shame from their actions, a true wecel.
To this day my family still have idoor shakalo in beesha awdal :smugruss:

and the only Somali clan welcoming gaalos in those days was Idoor, it's kinda off putting that somehow their greatest fighters and enemies would be supporting them , when they didn't even trust them to sign a piece of paper on land

But, I promised the Gabay of Idoor Falasha, one of the hidden jewels of secret gabays of the north to somalinet, and it will be revealed soon, do you think everyone forgot? That WILL be an interesting thread. But everyone do your own research for now, why do some people in the north call Idoor, "Idoor Falasha"? There is a hidden history that well make the Bucur Bacayr thrread look like roses, I promise.
This Gabay shows the mentality of those carrying brits on Kursis

Xirsiyow naaqusnimo waa waxaad, niiq la leedahay
- Naxar lagu shid waa jaahil iyo, Naracadiisiiye
- Noy baad tihiin aan qalbiga, nuurka 100 geline
- Naasilo xun baa lagu yaqaan, nimanka Iidoore
- Wax ka niiqsan toban ieer kuwii, naaqurta lahaaye
- Nasab haddaad tihiin gaaladaad, nici lahaydeene
- NaxaIIi baad ka dhigateen halkaan, narriga lahayne
- Nasteexadu waxay idin la tahay, naafacaan jirine
- Ka nacawdu sheydaamadaad, nacam tiraahdeene
- Naar-quulayaaI iyo knfraad, nebiya mooddeene
- Naartii waxaa idinku guray, nibiriyaashiiye
- Nasaarada waxaw taabacdeen, waa najuusnimo e
- Naagaw tihiin ferenjigii, nolosha dheeraaye
- Nacalluhu kuwnu fuulay baad, daba nashlayseene
- Naamuskiin wuxu jabay markaad, nacabka raacdeene …

Ameen.

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:51 pm**

Now I know that you're a selfhating Darood. All the trolls and sheegatos in SNet are Darood.

For arguments sake let's say your Qudhunbiirsi. What have you proved? It's not about writing a paragraph it's about proving your case.

Facts

1. Qudhunbiirsi didn't participate in the wars with the Abyssinians.
2. Qudhunbiirsi is not mentioned in the book Futuh al Habasha nor is Dir mentioned in the book.
3. Seylac was always under foreign occupation until Isaaq liberated it.
4. Emir Sharmaarke, an Isaaq man, ruled it for 30 years.
5. Isaaq sold native slaves in Seylac.
6. Isaaq also sold others i.e Oromos, Afars etc.
7. Emir Sharmaarke made an Afar man the governor of Seylac before leaving, Qudhunbiirsi were powerless.
8. Seylac was then occupied by the Egyptians until the British arrived and signed treaties with the native powerless clans.
9. Isaaq never gave their daughters to foreigners unlike Dir who intermarry with Oromos or the Darood who gave their daughters to Italians.

10. Isaaq never carried colonialists on their back unlike Qudhunbiirsi/Dir and Darood, look below.

Landing at Zeila :pac:

Bender Kassim - modern day Bosaaso :pac:

About that poem, you quoted Sayid Siigeyste, a flamboyant homosexual. I could quote poems where he's saying that Darood are faggots laga danaystay, used and abused. :pac:

Posted: **Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:55 pm**

@MEYLE, please stop insulting the good people of awdal, as you know the person you are trying to debate with a darood sheegato who doesn't even basic information such as the deegan where gadabuursi degan and the abtirsi of gadabuursi. The fact that he is trying to say saylac is a gadobuuris city should tell you this scum is a darood.

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