The main reasons behind the Somali predicament...

[SahanGalbeed]

Warsame history-gii bu ku sakhraamay.
Very informative , but neither practical nor palpable.

[Wareer]

Nobleman, are you denying the existance of that Hadith which specifically mentions the Arab race?

[SahanGalbeed]

Warsame abti , ma jihaad baa dee waxaad ka wada halkan ?

[Shirib]

[quote="Wareer"]Nobleman, are you denying the existance of that Hadith which specifically mentions the Arab race?[/quote]

No such thing exists, and if it does its a forged hadith that isn't sahiih, and can't be used in any sense. What are u talkin about

[*Nobleman*]

[quote="Wareer"]Nobleman, are you denying the existance of that Hadith which specifically mentions the Arab race?[/quote]



Bro i doubt that hadith you mentioned is sahih. It would contradict the last sermon of the prophet. Bring some proof, because i've never heard a hadith that mentions that you should love an Arab more than your self? wth

[Wareer]

Shirib, ask any Wadaad in your Seattle town to confirm it and come back to me.

[Shirib]

[quote="Wareer"]Shirib, ask any Wadaad in your Seattle town to confirm it and come back to me.[/quote]

Why don't u just find it and post the evidence.

Nobleman just posted an authentic hadith sayin no one is better than the other except by piety

[sadeboi]

Lol, wareer, miyaad wareersantahay? Which hadith ever mentions such a thing?

[FAH1223]

[quote="Wareer"]Shirib, ask any Wadaad in your Seattle town to confirm it and come back to me.[/quote]


bring your proof man, do you really think a hadith of that nature is compatible with the QUR'AN that says all mankind is equal and from one man? do you really think a hadith like that would compliment the Prophet SAW's advice and his LAST KHUTBAH?

you should love Allah more than your own self, not people who live in Arabia!

[Hussein53]

Wareer what are you talking about, you sound like a western orientalised. What do you mean by the Muslim brotherhood got into somalia through its porous border. Are you suggesting that these brothers are not natives of somalia.
Are you feeling ok!!!!

Are you suggesting people like Dahir aweys is not somali, or are you trying to say that there ideas are alien to the region.

I will presume you mean there ideas are alien to the region....

Right if you knew anything about the Horn of Africa you would know that this concept of nation state is the Alien idea, this concept of socialism and democracy is the alien idea. Imposed on to us from the colonial powers of the west by taking somali students from places like Hargeisa and Hamar in the 50's 60's and 70's to be brain washed opps I mean to be educated in the universities of the west. These naive and young students (egal, sayid barre, abdulahi yusuf, and many more) where then returned to Somalia to govern them on behalf of the west. This experiment caused the catastrophic results we see today,

OK

Further more you would realize if you knew any history, that the somali people was governed by a light handed theocracy in Zalac, Harar, Berbera, Mogadhishu and Merca before the west ever came on to the scene. The nomands in the wilderness governed themselves by the sharia. At the height of our history was when Ahmed Gurey conquered and took nearly 70% of modern day ethiopia. In that period we were governed by sharia and united even though we were of different tribes. So it is only common sense to try to return or at least learn from this success story.

This is only on the intellectual basis and there is even more evidence on a religious basis.

So Al shabab or ICU, call them what you want have this idea. The idea to govern this muslim nation by ALLAHs laws and to unite the somali nation on La Ilaha Ilalah. Which will benefit all of us in this life and the hereafter even though the KUFFAR hate this. So let them perish on there envy and hatred.

[Warsame101]

[quote="SahanGalbeed"]Warsame abti , ma jihaad baa dee waxaad ka wada halkan ?[/quote]

ina-abti, what makes you think every Islamic discussion has something to do with Jihad lol

To answer your comment, the reason why we are not on the same wave-length is cause your basis of your whole contention involves finding a reconciliatory solution in a fragmented clan-based society.

You assumed that I oppose the concept of qabiil. On the contrary sxb, as aforementioned, the root cause in Somalia is not the tool of clan. Clan is a genealogical structure and a mercy from Allah (SWT) for us to recognise each other and it is not something to be frowned upon.

The problems that plague Somalis are not the result of Somalia being a clannish society; it is actually the consequence of us indulging in Shirk that ultimately creates these by-products.

You mentioned earlier that history cannot be practicable and I say some history can be practicable since it teaches us some exemplary lessons.

There is actually little contrast between the current situations of today's Somalis and the Arabs in the Jahiliyyah period (before the advent of the Prophet). The actual difference being that the Arab nomads didn't receive the message of Islam yet. To list the similarities,

1. The pre-Islamic Arabs were continuously engaged in tribal raids
1. Present-day Somalis still raid each other albeit not as frequent.

2. The pre-Islamic Arabs used to carry out retaliatory executions.
2. Present-day Somalis still carry out retaliatory murders.

3. The pre-Islamic Arabs glorified and venerated their ancestors.
3. Present-day Somalis still glorify and venerate their ancestors.

4. The pre-Islamic Arabs were deeply superstitious and prejudiced.
4. Present-day Somalis are still in engulfed in superstition.

Once Iimaan entered the hearts of the Arab nomads and shunned associating partners with Allah, they transformed from a bunch of ignoramuses into an urban phenomenon.

Similarly, the same effect was produced in almost every culture that fully embraced Islam. For instance, the transformation of the Seljuks (Turkish group) stemming from a tribal-based nomadic culture to being world leaders and the destroyers of the Roman-Byzantine Empire. What about the Berber nomads and the indigenous Africans from North-West, West Africa respectively, who upon fully adopting Islam, conquered Spain and went up-far as south of France and installing an world-centre of science and learning.

In short,,,, Somalis still share the same characteristics of the pre-Islamic Arabs. This is as a result of the prevalent non-Islamic activities in Somalia because truly any person who harbours hate for another Muslim based on clanship, either possess a low iimaan (for engaging in non-Islamic practices) or has left the fold of Islam. There is no alternative explanation.

[FAH1223]

^ 5 stars

[Monk-of-Mogadishu]

There is some truth and some too obvious to what Warsame101 is saying. But I can't disagree with any of it.

You know what's ironic is, that despite the nightmarish ordeal that Somalia is going through, it is for the best. 1,000,000 nomads, who otherwise would have been secluded to one town or village, have been thrust by civil war, to over 50 different nations across the world and into hundreds of different cultures and languages.

In these foreign countries, we are learning Liberal Arts in America, Engineering in India, Science in Europe, and Shariah in Qatar. Every Somali has the intention to use his skills to benefit his country and there are many of us with these skills, sharpened to a fine point. Not many countries of our size have so many skilled people taking lessons from the best in the world.

We're in a great position. I've already made a vow to return to Somalia with a degree in engineering. I will do whatever I can, and I have many sources, to find something I can do in Somalia. It will happen.

[gurey25]

[quote="Shirib"]In 1831 Mehmet Ali Pasha's son Ibrahim led an Egyptian army into Syria to fight the Ottomans. The Ottomans alarmed accepted the English as awliya and with there assistance were able to defeat the Pasha's army.

In return for there help to defeat the Egyptian army the Ottomans had to sign the Treaty of Balta Liman, which gave English free reign in Ottoman economic and Political realm.

In 1916 the Arab's accepted the English as awliya, in there revlolt to fight the Ottoman Empire. With the help of the British and others the Arabs were able to defeat the Ottomans.

After defeating the Ottoman Muslim Empire the same Europeans who were helping began to colonize the Arab states. Some colonized while others had governments put in place that the west still controls today.

Britain took the capital of the caliphate Istanbul in 1918. They made 4 demands

1)The Caliphate must be abolished
2) The caliph must be deported
3)The caliphs properties must be siezed
4) The new Turkish state must be founded on secular basis

A MP in the house of commons protested against Lord Curzon (Founder of Treaty of Laussane) saying, "Why is Turkey granted independence while Arab countries are occupied?" Loed Curzon asnwered, "The point at issue is that Turkey is destroyed and shall never rise again because we have destroyed their spiritual power: the kalifah and Islam"

Muslims are backwards today because we left the laws that governed us. We've accepted kuffar as awliya. We left the sharia and went to secularism.[/quote]


Shirib i have to step in here and correct you..

this is false.

1. the british when they occupyed Istanbul they intended to prolong the rule of the sultan becuase they intended to use him as a puppet.
The british had all opposing ulema locked up or killed and then cultivated thier own "ulema" pets along with the sultan himself and some of his family..

2. since the sultan was completly under british control, why would they lose a valuable resource?

3. same as above.

4. The new turkish state was resisted fiercley by the british, the french , the greeks and the
western puppets in turkey, and it was due to the brilliance of such men as kemal ataturk and ismet inonu among others that turkey was born.
Britian wanted a turkey under the sultan, becuase it would mean under thier control.



People call mustafa kemal a jew, a kaafir, but he was not a western stooge.
he was a nationalist that succeeded in one of the greatest examples of a war of liberation in history. taking on his own traitors as well us destroying the invading greek army, the french and
the british.

[Voltage]

[quote="Wareer"][quote="Murax"][quote="Wareer"]Is there a Hadith (authentic or not) that says that Arabs are superior race that can't be insulted and we must love Arabs more than yourself?[/quote]



Theres no such hadith, wal yacaadu bilah.[/quote]


Walaahi there is Hadith that obliges us to avoid any gaffe towards Arab people even if you are greatly wronged. In other words, they are the Chosen Segment of the Muslim society. My friend argued against the veracity of this Hadith and I am here to confirm it.[/quote]

You went from propagating secular "Unesco heritage foundation" viewpoint on an Islamic matter to blatantly making unfounded false accusations that you then have the galls to declare "I am here to confirm". Do you understand what the term "I am here to confirm" implies in its base meaning? You went from asking the question "does this exist" to "it exists" without a single tangible thing in between and yet you believe you have "confirmed" anything?

Ilaahay (SWT) always makes his enemies into laughingstocks. I will bring the Hadiith you are talking about and I will show what it truly meant and who the prophet meant by "Arab". This is the Hadiith you are talking about:

---"The Prophet (sall-Allaahu alayhi wa sallam) said: "Whoever loves the Arabs, then due to my love they love them, and whoever hates the Arabs then due to my hatred, they hate them."---

Listen up so you will not making an ass of yourself in real life. There are many hadiith where the prophet (SCW) as well as his companions have said there are not a set people called Arabs, but all speakers of Arabic are Arabs. For example:

---"The Messenger (sall-Allaahu alayhi wa sallam) ascended the mimbar, praised Allaah (SWT) and then said: "O mankind! Surely the Lord is one Lord, the father is one father the deen is one deen. Surely Arabic is not for anyone of you due to a father or a mother, it is only a language. Whoever speaks Arabic is an Arab."---

---"It has been narrated upon Abu Hurayrah (radee Allaahu anhu), marfu'an: "As long as you speak Arabic then you are an Arab."---


From the prophet himself and his most most famous companions, an Arab is a speaker of Arabic, not a person who inherited it by birth. By the definition of the prophet and his companions, you can from whichever ethnicity possible, learn Arabic and you are an Arab whereas you can claim your forefathers might have been from the Hajeez, but do not speak Arabic and you are not an Arab. Being an Arab by the definition of the prophet (SCW) and his most famous companions is an earned trait not an inherited trait and this is the definition we should keep in mind when look at sayings of the prophet that concern an "Arab people".

Education is a valuable thing and I am sad to see when people who do not have even a small grasp of their diin are then mentally damaged. No wonder they turn out the way Xplaya and Twisted-Logic turn out, individuals displaying psychological damages. You are on that path Wareer.


*EDIT*

In the charter of the Arab League itself, even they follow the prophet's (SCW) definition. The Arab League at its formation in 1946 defined Arab as "a person whose language is Arabic".