Re: Sheikh Ibn Uthaymin,The Scholars are divided into 3
Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:53 am
1. What happened in 2001 that George W. Bush announced that he will start fighting against muslims and if you are not with us you are against us. After that you can see how governments ran to him and did everything in order to please him. Prince Sultan Airbase in Jazeera was used in both attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq and after the initial attacks, Saudis have continued the enormous support for USA in their war against Islam. Ibn Baz himself said:
"The scholars of Islam have gathered in agreement (ijmac) that the one who assists the kuffar against the muslims and helps them with any type of assistance then he is a kafir like them. As Allah the Most High said:
O you who believe! Take not the jews and christians as allies; they are but allies to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as allies then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not the people who are wrongdoers."
Before 2001 situation was very different, world had a major change that year, and if you disagree with this, you have been living in a cave. These situations change, for example jihad in Chechnya was ok in 90's because it didn't go against someone who was considered ally of Saudis, now the situation is totally reversed and Saudis are supporting Russia in the fight. Putin got almost every major medal of honor from Saudi state and Ramzan Kadyrov was invited to wash the kacba with king.
Now if you want to talk about present day, don't bring me fatawa from someone who didn't see this day but died earlier, because they are irrelevant to this new specific situation.
2. What was the point in this video? It talked about general situation and it was said that takfir can't be made until the conditions are filled. Please tell me which of the conditions that the government doesn't fill in 2008. How many culamaa made takfiir to the state in 2001 and how many of them are still in jails? Number is huge. Government allied with the kuffar and is fighting with them against muslims, and also Islam, as it for example took away al walaa wal baraa from the text books of education system because this aspect of Islam was not ok with USA. It seems that for your kind of people there is no act great enough to stop kissing the feet of the king. I'm sure that even if the king himself said he was a kafir still you would make excuses for him: maybe he was forced, he was talking while he was sleeping etc.
3. How it shows the jahiliyah? Please explain more. And tell me how is possible that mufti who has a great limitation of knowing what is going on in the world can give verdict about them? Person who has religious knowledge can give verdicts concerning religion, but if the fatawa are concerning fiqhul waaqic this person has to have good knowledge about everything related to this issue before he can open his mouth about it. Like the real SALAF said.
4. I didn't mean that Albani had issues with his own iman. Issue was concerning iman and irjac.
This is how Uthaimin commented one text of Albani:
"And these words of Shaikh al Albani are very good indeed, however, we would differ with him on the issue where he does not make a ruling of disbelief over them (the rulers) except when they held that to be permissible (as a matter of belief). This matter needs further investigation, because we say: Whoever rules by what Allah has revealed yet he holds that something other than the rule of Allah is better or more befitting, then he is a kafir - even if he judged by the rule of Allaah - and his kufr is a kufr of belief.
However, our discussion here is concerning an action. And it is in my opinion that it is not possible for a person to apply and establish such laws that oppose the Shari'ah and which are referred to by the slaves of Allah for judgement except that he declares this to be permissible and holds the belief that such laws are better the Shari'ah laws. Hence, he is a disbeliever. This is what is apparent, and if not then what (motive) is it that carried him to undertake this?"
Qawlul mufiid calaa Kitaabut Tawxiid
I'm still waiting for your list of those reasons why al Shabaab is a deviant movement.
"The scholars of Islam have gathered in agreement (ijmac) that the one who assists the kuffar against the muslims and helps them with any type of assistance then he is a kafir like them. As Allah the Most High said:
O you who believe! Take not the jews and christians as allies; they are but allies to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as allies then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not the people who are wrongdoers."
Before 2001 situation was very different, world had a major change that year, and if you disagree with this, you have been living in a cave. These situations change, for example jihad in Chechnya was ok in 90's because it didn't go against someone who was considered ally of Saudis, now the situation is totally reversed and Saudis are supporting Russia in the fight. Putin got almost every major medal of honor from Saudi state and Ramzan Kadyrov was invited to wash the kacba with king.
Now if you want to talk about present day, don't bring me fatawa from someone who didn't see this day but died earlier, because they are irrelevant to this new specific situation.
2. What was the point in this video? It talked about general situation and it was said that takfir can't be made until the conditions are filled. Please tell me which of the conditions that the government doesn't fill in 2008. How many culamaa made takfiir to the state in 2001 and how many of them are still in jails? Number is huge. Government allied with the kuffar and is fighting with them against muslims, and also Islam, as it for example took away al walaa wal baraa from the text books of education system because this aspect of Islam was not ok with USA. It seems that for your kind of people there is no act great enough to stop kissing the feet of the king. I'm sure that even if the king himself said he was a kafir still you would make excuses for him: maybe he was forced, he was talking while he was sleeping etc.
3. How it shows the jahiliyah? Please explain more. And tell me how is possible that mufti who has a great limitation of knowing what is going on in the world can give verdict about them? Person who has religious knowledge can give verdicts concerning religion, but if the fatawa are concerning fiqhul waaqic this person has to have good knowledge about everything related to this issue before he can open his mouth about it. Like the real SALAF said.
4. I didn't mean that Albani had issues with his own iman. Issue was concerning iman and irjac.
This is how Uthaimin commented one text of Albani:
"And these words of Shaikh al Albani are very good indeed, however, we would differ with him on the issue where he does not make a ruling of disbelief over them (the rulers) except when they held that to be permissible (as a matter of belief). This matter needs further investigation, because we say: Whoever rules by what Allah has revealed yet he holds that something other than the rule of Allah is better or more befitting, then he is a kafir - even if he judged by the rule of Allaah - and his kufr is a kufr of belief.
However, our discussion here is concerning an action. And it is in my opinion that it is not possible for a person to apply and establish such laws that oppose the Shari'ah and which are referred to by the slaves of Allah for judgement except that he declares this to be permissible and holds the belief that such laws are better the Shari'ah laws. Hence, he is a disbeliever. This is what is apparent, and if not then what (motive) is it that carried him to undertake this?"
Qawlul mufiid calaa Kitaabut Tawxiid
I'm still waiting for your list of those reasons why al Shabaab is a deviant movement.
