ACCORDING TO SOMALIWEYN...

[Cawar]

Sadeboi,

I understand what you are saying adn where your coming from..and you do raise valid points.

The only reason I said Voltage backed out was he didnt present his argument ..persistent enough to get his message across, regardless of the discussion being shifted.

TL, its true(what sadeboi is saying), dont just talk like you are impartial here..cos you are not. the fact is these 2 guys argument started with a basic thesis
which was to compare major accomplishment between those presidents the nation had.

Now, one can argue (whatever they want) that a president didnt have much acomplishemnet compared with the other..but had other stronger points..or he left power without any resistence..or one president destroyed his own accoplishments by becoming a dictator..etc etc
but that doesnt take away the fact that when comparing oranges..wwe have to limit the argument with oranges and dont let apple's get involved..thats a fair argument i believe.

Obviously.. everyone sees and judges things differently.

[sadeboi]

Cawar

The reason why voltage did not engage was because it was nothing factual it was an argument based on Somaliweyns logic. He did not differenciate between the two presidents in a discussion ranking all three presidents, nor did he mention anything noteworthy. Illahay baan kula daarshe ee did he mention anything that Aden Cade achieved socially/economically/military.

[Alluring]

In reality, Aden Cadde and Siad Barre were never in the same league nor have they accomplished the same fleet. Siad accomplished far more, he built roads, establishments, and brought the forefront of Somali creativity and achievement to light. He instituted educational aspects by making the Somali language a priority.

Aden Cadde was better than Siad Barre, because he applied unity and he knew when to step down. But as far as achievements it doesn't come close.

[Twisted_Logic]

Sadeboi,

The argument initially started when Voltage said some disparaging and factually laughable comments about the former Somali presidents and ranked them in a stupid order without any basis. SW disagreed with him and presented his facts, and all Voltage could do was post some silly smileys. Now, you have argued that MSB accomplished more than the first 2 leaders of Somalia who faced the daunting task of setting the country in a good path and leaving a democratic tradition behind. You have argued along with your brother that the man who has single-handedly destroyed the Somali Republic and brought the Somali Project that was initiated in 1960 to its knees deserves more respect then the first leaders who have left no stone unturned to show Somalis what is possible through unity, democracy and the rule of law. You and your brother wants us to believe that the man who has won the national leadership at gun-point to be more honorable then the 2 Founding Fathers of the Republic and what is worse you have failed systematically to prove or argue for your case. That's why I am disappointed with you because you can't offer any tangible counter-argument without quoting yourself over and over again. The tables have been set man, lets set down and have a good 'ol debate

[SahanGalbeed]

Anigu horaan idnku sheegay , mareexanka ka PHD ka soo qaata Princeton ama Oxford , iyo ka garbahaarey jooga waxba kuma kala duwana .
Iminkan raggan , iskuul bay dhigtaan , af ingiriiski ayuun bay 'proficiency" ku yara yeesheen , sow wxaad garateen ma'aha , laakin asalkoodu , intellectually refined weligood ma noqoyaan

[Cawar]

Sadeboi, I can see how things are being presented and i will hold my final judgement for now.


TL, you are confusing few things again. I dont think sadeboi argued(and he is wrong iff he did) that Siad barre should be honoured and/or respected more ..
simply because he has had more accomplishment that the other 2..therefore, lets judge oranges as they are..and leave the apples for another time.

[Alluring]

Twisted,

You have it all wrong when it comes to your assessment on Siad. You have to think objectively before assuming, imagine being the leader of Somalis. It sure is far more complex, than your assertions.

Siad Barre greatest downfall was his love for his country, which many can not deny. He had problems, sure, what great leader did not?

[Twisted_Logic]

Twisted,

You have it all wrong when it comes to your assessment on Siad. You have to think objectively before assuming, imagine being the leader of Somalis. It sure is far more complex, than your assertions.

Siad Barre greatest downfall was his love for his country, which many can not deny. He had problems, sure, what great leader did not?

My favorite statesman right before he stepped down said before a national audience

" I will die for my country, but I will never let my country die for me,"

You guys are so quick to point out some exaggerated accomplishments of the MSB era, yet you never mention what led him to die a forsaken death in a Nigerian toilet.

[ModerateMuslim]

RIP ADEN CUSMAN & SIYAD BARRE

people, let em rest in peace. good, bad, great or whatnot, they're HISTORY (and we're muslims).

[RebelLion]

The objective of the debate is to look at the overall achievements, positive and negative, and the negatives of barre outweigh the positive he accomplished. Let's not forget that the man was responsible for having many somali's killed in Galkacyo and the north. If barre had stepped down in 1986, he's legacy may have well have been different but he choose to hold on to power like a typical dictator, which means ultimately he cared about power more than his people.

[Alluring]

Twisted,

If you are going to disrespect someone at least have a bit of originality the Nigerian toilet nonsense has been overused as much time as your obvious Arab debaucheries.

[Somali_4Life]

It is wrong to compare leader(rahimullah) chosen by its people and who stepped down peacefully with a tyrant.

[Awe]

Adan Cade is in a league of his own sxb, although I will admit Abdullahi is no where near Siyad either.

[Twisted_Logic]

Alluring,

That wasn't an insult. Just an honest (naive) observation.

[Twisted_Logic]

Cawar,

This is how this whole discussion started:

rebelLion asks

Voltage

Out of this list of somali presidents and dictators which do you think was the best?: Abdirashid Ali Shermake, Aden Cadde, Abdullahi Yusuf, Siade barre?

voltage's answer

1. Afbiijo is not in the list. You might as well include Cabdiwasim, Caydiid, Ali Mahdi and the assorted members of the Loser's Club.

Coming from an objective analysis, whether it is because he ruled for 21 years or not, clearly Siad Barre's legacy and his achievements, even just looking at the "good", outweigh the combined achievements of the others multiplied by infinity.

With respect to objectivity my list goes:

1. Mohammed Siad Barre
2. Abdirashiid Ali shermake
3. Aden Cadde

Aden Cadde in his tenure accomplished naught, and I mean naught. But he was a fair and decent man who was also the first modern African ruler to step down democratically.

Abdirashiid Ali Shermake tried to reform the country in order to make it an effective post-colonial African state but under is tenure, not necessarily because it his fault, Somalia became the most corrupt country in the world, over a hundred tribal parties came into existence, he failed to write the Somali script despite the determination by the academics, failed to lobby on behalf of the NFD, and failed to tackle Ethiopia's cross border raids into Somalia. Yet he tried and was also a fair and decent man.

Siad Barre is synonymous with modern Somalia, the good as well as the bad. That really says it all.