Who is the most powerful Isaaq leader in somali history

[Diyeeshaha_Tolka]

I think it was sh isxaaq he used lo led the wars agains the qotis oromos midgas when we where fighting for our existance in africa

sheikh isxaaq ciidankiisa qolodee ahaayeen,,looool

[guryasame]

I think it was sh isxaaq he used lo led the wars agains the qotis oromos midgas when we where fighting for our existance in africa

sheikh isxaaq ciidankiisa qolodee ahaayeen,,looool

Hahahaha lol

[guryasame]

Too much "niic" and no substence facts stands that no-Xabuusho Juda as you refere to yourself poineered the Isaaq sultanate, so far the oldest sutalnate known to us are those of the Habar Magaado according to Shahaab Al-Diin al Jeezaani in his Futuux al-Xabasha. A short branch Ilko Cas never had a history beyond Salaan Carraby and Seelaanyo. We are not debating the Xabuusho Mafrish history we are debating known historical facts, you can lament and squeal all you want but that merits nothing.

Xaarkeyse:

I am surpised u call ur immature rants and flaunting of ur flawed upbringing as debate. U know and I know and every person with an ounce of integrity and knowledge of ur history knows that. Dhhux baraar was the last of long line of toljecle sultans, and even if we assume the impossible and that the futux refers to ur clan, which would clearly cast doubt on garxajis isaaqness (this precisely why I didn't want to continue on this road, but u insist on a course of destruction), u can not prove that those sultans were not toljecle diluted by the vile blood that produces the likes of u to the point that that there noble origin was no longer recognizable at a such an early point. There are two known numerically minor section of habar xabuush that are in the west separated from their kin who previously occupied the coast and powerful position on both sides of the indian ocean and very recently moved inland, they are the toljecle and reer ugaas both were there as ruling families, I know u would like to deny the toljecle sultanate but futux willl not serve that purpose except cast doubt on the origin of garxajis of which ur a renegade and illigitimate member. Btw, I doubt toljecle and reer ugaas were the acception, its likely habr xabuush sayyids settled among other clans as both religious and political authority...as for personalities like imam al-ghazi we await his identifications, if he was not from the ruling xabshi sayyid family he was an anomaly whose sole authority was based on his marriage which I doubt very much.
Ur whole iconsolable grief derives from insecurity and ur constant stupid wailing and rants are an futile attempt to deny and belittle HJ's God-given status, ur already a murtad and pariah, and. When the summer cloud passes and in the full daylight the reality is no longer deniable u will probably commit harikari. Not unlike urself, u have reduced hj history to salaan and siilanyo...ok let me lighten ur load a little, now find me three men from garxajis of the caliber of salaan, siilanyo and hadraawi?

[XKeyse_]

Guraysamo,

Ilko Cas boy did I purst your Jeclisom bubble? Tojeclo and their Dhuux Baraar is irrelvant to your Habar Jeclo same as a Habar Awal man been a sultan accords Garxajis no benefits what so ever, but you Laangaabs Habar Jeclo always play Xabuusho cards when it suits you to claim the sultanates of the Tol Jeclo as if its a Habar Jeclo one. There is no historical record that indicates any unique status to the short Tol Jecl sultante of Dhuux Baraar which lasted only 1 generation. Dhuuux Baraar ruled in the last half of the 17 century and was desposed by a collitions led by the pious Cabdi Ciise. Dhuux Baraar was succseded by Sultan Guuleed Cabdi his decendants were the sultans of Ilko Cas till 1949 when the Habar Jeclo followed the Ciise Muuse and declared a seprate sultantes both with the consent of the grand sultan Cabdilaahi Diiriye, the Ciise Muuse elected Cali Kooshin and your Ilko Cas elected sultan Cali of the reer Yuusuf by then the Ciidagale had their 6th sultan and the Habar Yoonis had their 6th grand sultan and 2nd Muuse Ismaaciil sultan both Garxajis lines were almost 200 years old. Now as of today the Habar Jeclo's sultanates is less then 60 years old the Muuse Ismaaciil sultanates antiqutated the entire Xabuusho.

Now so far your Ilko Cas band have persented no historical debate be it oral or documented suporting your Xabuusho Mafrish Talk, the fool Cum azzling Liqaaye still claims Cabdi Waraabe isn't a sultan the kid is lagging behind in all points of conetention I tak him as a typical Ilko Cas boy nurtured in the Ilko Cas clanist mafrishes of UK where even famous Habar Jeclo hookers such as Caasho Waal is truned into a lengend.

I simply have 2 points:

1- Modern Isaaq sultanate comes under the Ciidagale sultanates even the Habar Yoonis which elected a sultan when Guuleed was a life still deferes to the grand Ciidagale line.

2- The ilko Cas Xabuusho were under the Ciidagale sultanates even when the Habar Awal declared their seprate one in 1911 under the Axmed Cabdalle sub-clan, the Arab in 1920's under sultan Faarax, the Gadhweyn in 1930 under sultan Ducaale the Ciise Muuse and Habar Jeclo were the last to gain independence from the Ciidagale sultante and that was 1949.

3- The oldest Isaaq sultanate in record which is mentioned by Futuux Al-Xabasha is that of the Habar Magaado, their is no mention of Habar Jeclo in historical record be it Arab or English till 1854 by Richard Burton if there is bastards among the Isaaq then it will be the out of wedlock unmentioned Habar Xabuusho.

What you Ilko Cas boys have??? so far nothing but Dhuux Baraar who ruled less then 10 years and from their the Habar Jeclo is trying to gain some sort of nobility or antiquaity!!! it buggles the mind how an Arab sultanate would better the historical status of Habar Awal??? Only Habar Jeclo argue that weak case and reason that since Tol Jeclo is Xabuusho therefore Habar Jeclo is Tol Jeclo fakkken laangaabs

[guryasame]

Xaarkeyse:

Ok let's say that the habr maqdi in futux is the same clan that claims to be isaq and let's assume those sultans are dir, cause its impossible they were bani hashim, how can u prove that imam al-ghazi was not toljecle and or another descendent of bah xabuusho of sheekh isxaq? or r u flat out denying the toljecle sultanate over ur clan. Comparing cidagalle sultans to the civilized states o those earlier times with cities like harrar which was the 4th holiest city and whose all thesmuslm states came under, who controlled the maritime routes in the indian ocean and the red ea and who held the unconquerable island fortress like janjira which gave them power over shipping ports. In idnia and who had princely states in the interior of india and also were political powerhouses and kingmakers within the major ruling dynasties in india. U claim hj came under cidagalle, where are these cidagalle among the hj, how does the drunken cries of some drunken cidagale sultan in dunbuluq who on international media confirms his dir and then on second breath proclaims he is )sultaan guud of isaq, how does that translate to a reality on the ground?.

1. The toljecle and reer ugaas live among the clans they ruled and the reer ugaas continue as the ruling family of the cisse who were probably the main clan in western somaliland at the time.
2. Forget about ur naked habr maqdi clan the whole of the horn and the indian ocean wass under a xabshi and sayyid families who were related and centered in somaliland and harar, we are its remnant, the evidence is as clear as daylight if u take ur head out of ur ass for one moment and read the history and the facts on both sides of the indian ocean coast and connect the dots, its not hard even for a retard like u.
3. The habr maqdi in futux are not isaq and if its proven that garxajis hail from them u r not descendants of sheik ishaq as I in all honesty for sometime suspected, after some baffling evidence that has come out in some other endevours, and u might not have even a few descendants among u.

Finally, whatever is written in futux can hardly be grounds for denying ur toljecle sultans the volume that gives background information is missing, we don't even know who the full identity fo the central character imam al-ghazi was, it can hardly overturn what every elder in the area knows. I know u have no qualms to giving false testimony, but when u can produce three upright knowledgeable elders from even ur lowly muuse cabdalle who can testify that the toljecle sultans are not true, then I can atleast sympathize with ur ignorance, otherwise ur just engaging. What the jews call chutzpah by ur outright denials of a fact more solid then the thin incomplete written records in this unstudied oral based society... research is carried out to supplement/prove or overturn what is plausible based on known information be it written, oral or a hypothesis based on analysis on analysis of many facts, chutzpah and stupid rants will not make garxajis the possible remnants of the people who shaped the society that we call somalis today let alone having influence on the much wider region.

[XKeyse_]

Desprate rants , I have read your peices more then three times just to give it the benefit of doubt and still its a load of crap. You have persented no argument for your supposed Xabuusho sultanate nor persented one to deny the Magaado sultanate. wether al-ghaazi was Somali or a Paki was and is irrelevant and it has nothing todo with the sultante of any somali clan in the 1600 century be it Habar Magaadle or Mareexaan ets.

The habr maqdi in futux are not isaq and if its proven that garxajis hail from them u r not descendants of sheik ishaq as I in all honesty for sometime suspected, after some baffling evidence that has come out in some other endevours, and u might not have even a few descendants among u.

can any one make any sense of that argument???? if you guys know what this guy is arguing for by all means let me know.

[guryasame]

Xaarkeyse,

Let me make some sense out of it for u take a genetic test and u will know what I mean. Better yet empty arguments will get us no where, as they say qof walba asalkiisu ku aroora, the age of claims and counter claims are over, otherwise wait and we are waiting with u.

I don't understand what is so difficult to understand? Its impossible! the habr maqdi cannot be of isaq descent, I mean how far do u want us to stretch our imagination....they are described its not even 300 yrs after sheikh isxaq arrived 1. they are major clan and 2. They are a native clan an refered to as al-somali which could have been even used in genealogical sense, for example as-samaale. Now, u tell us how its possible,That even if u multiplied like chickens and became assimilated with lightning speed (provided as-somali is not genealogical), How is that there is no mention of there origin at such an early point? Remember this is now there country and even if they went to bosnia, china or senegal in that age and time they would be addressed as descendants of the prophet scws. It just shows ur lack of full understanding of the subjects u want to discuss, what u fancy is a fact for u...but u can not force people to accept, u have to make them understand which u can't in this case, its simply indefinsible, it just makes no sense, how hard is that for u to understand. All the cushtic clans under the rule of sayyids, carried the title sayyids the others continued as habshi in india for example...this is one of the mechanics of cushtic society, which I can discuss in another thread not filled with ur rants, so even if the habr maqdhi had some shariif rulers they would likely either carry that title and it would play strongly in their identity. Although to illustrate incompleteness of ur argument, I argued to the contrary, in all seriousness those sultans could not have been toljecle, which means if that clan was the origin of garxajis, not even one sayyid was even among them.

Btw, what has habr maqdi of futux have to do with the xabshi isaaqs? Simply nothing, r u saying
That these were their sultans...knowing u that is probably what u r getting at...why do u call them isaq sultans? Is that why u bring up the empty claims of some dunbuluq dir suldan. Why would u expect habr xabuush to be mentioned in futux, u can't drag us down in to ur habr maqdi dilemma? Infact, I say goodbye and goodriddance. We are interested in finding out who al-ghazi was and how he fit in to wali ashama, the identity of sheikh yusuf al-kowneyn and preserving what we know of our history on both sides of the indian ocean. We are also interested in preserving the history of the region's history from gog and magog, freemasons, crusaders, suufyanis, racist, athiest and suffaha by expounding in comprehensive manner the successive three major transformations of the region cushtic, habshi, and lastly sayyid as providence.

I really don't care what u think of the habr maqdi, they have nothing to do me as a son of sheikh isxaq, if they are ur ancestors claim them without making wild associations.

Btw, quit ur little laangab bullshit, ur garxajis muusa cabdalle and I m muuse sheikh isxaq farax cabdille, most somalilanders know halqabsiga: farro been ma sheegan farax cabdillaan ahay ....and as farax lanjeer said:l

Sida lawyerka iyo waaligan lid cas leeyahay
Lag malyuuna ah bay haybtaydu laba kun dheertahay
Lafaha reer isaq waxanu nahay laanta ugu dheere
Ayaa I loodin kara sow arlada leexo qarin mayso..

And ur clan is the epitome of laangab, I swear if went to oodweyne and u call me laangab they see u for what ur devoid of sense of reality.

[guryasame]

Desprate rants , I have read your peices more then three times just to give it the benefit of doubt and still its a load of crap. You have persented no argument for your supposed Xabuusho sultanate nor persented one to deny the Magaado sultanate. wether al-ghaazi was Somali or a Paki was and is irrelevant and it has nothing todo with the sultante of any somali clan in the 1600 century be it Habar Magaadle or Mareexaan ets.

The habr maqdi in futux are not isaq and if its proven that garxajis hail from them u r not descendants of sheik ishaq as I in all honesty for sometime suspected, after some baffling evidence that has come out in some other endevours, and u might not have even a few descendants among u.

can any one make any sense of that argument???? if you guys know what this guy is arguing for by all means let me know.

can someone inform our friend xaarkeyse, who seems to be missing in action, that his argument is fallacious, and his conclusions are based on the unstated assumption that habr maqdi in futux are isaq which I do not accept, and implicit in his premises is that its conceivable that habr maqdi garxajis hail from this tribe and the same time are of isaaq descent even in a nominal way. therefore, its a desperate way to overturn the well known habr xabusheed overlords of the so called western isaaqs, namely the Toljecle Sultanate of whose last of a long-line of sultans was dhuux baraar, and which is said to have began in the 13th century. There is clearly more evidence that sheikh yusuf al-kowneyn is the same as the father of yessif of hj and the founder of the reer ugaas wardiiq of the cisse who likely occupied the maroodijeex region and the south-western awdal all the way to harar, but u dont see me building endless unrelated arguments to oveturn accepted historical reality even if its based on oral accounts. I have argued that this should be researched because i m convinced it will bear fruit, likewise, the habr maqdi in futux and its relationship with garxajis can be established if for example its found that there is negligible isaq related semetic contribution to their genetic make-up, namely their Y chromosome; but if evidence to the contrary even in the 10%s is established we can assume that there was an established isxaqi families as religious and also likely political authority and could not have been the same as the the habr maqdi in futux who are clearly described in the incomplete accounts of futux as a native clan 300 yrs (16th century) after sheikh isxaq arrived. Those of us who have seen xaarkeyse's attempt to push back hy and cidagalle sultanates over the years understand that this guy in particular, who is the illegitimate son of someone named shaydan waqooyi, is unhappy with the account of history as it stands, but honestly he is much slower than I thought with his current convoluted arguments.

[XKeyse_]

Ilko Cas Boy,

As a typical foxy lady you are running in circles in vain trying to stop the factual tide. The Habar Magaadle of today is the Habar Maqdi of 1530 so is the Mareexaan so is the Bartire and Geri and Gurguri as most Isaaq and Daarood know it and even foreign expert. Why is it hard for you to accept that , its very simple , your Ilko Cas Myth of Xabuusho sultanate would be dead , so you have to run around with dead end reasoning and waste my time and the others and expect us to make sense of your oral excerments.

The question is where were your ilko cas lot in the 1500? how come no record of Xabuusho existence prior to the English exist?were you yet to be added to the Isaaq or were your Xabuusho slave mother was still lactating and her broods suckling?

What we have for a fact is for the last 250 years the Xabuusho were under the mighty Ciidagale sultanate, there is no argument there, if you dare deny it prove us otherwise. What we know for certain today is that the Garxajis had the longest modern Isaaq sultantes both of wich were founded prior to the 1790 some 250 years and more ago. And not least but last the garxajis are the founders of major Isaaq cities from Hargaysa to Ceerigaabo including Burco. If the Garxajis isn't Isaaq wonder what other Isaaq in history or in reality there is, the lacacting ilko cas little lady called Xabuusho , i doubt it. If there is Isaaq then its us, if there is no Isaaq then there is no Isaaq. The Garxajis are the embodiment of Isaaqism , from the shrine keepers of the Sheekh to the shrine keepers of the saint Yuusuf. What else Habar Jeclo contributed to Isaaqism beside producing the first respected hooker in burco , Madam Caasho waal of the 1950's.?

P.s,

The poems of few Ilko Cas beggers in Habar Awal gaaf amounts to nill, the Sacad Muuse were belittling the Ilko Cas Faarax Laanjeer when he claimed Habar Jeclo , the Sacad Muuse after a good laugh asked again what was that, then he composed that mini-boast, of been a lawyer and a small time goat theif yet to be camel rustler garduate.

[guryasame]

Xaarkeyse:

Your arguments are devoid of substance and confused, that is why I think u should start answering one question at the time and I am going to help u along in this regard, so my first simple question is, as a start:.

1. Can you give me one modern foriegn scholar that mentions habar xabusheed, habr awal or habar magadle in any of his discussion that does not mention their isaq origin? If the anwer is no how could it be possible 300 years after sheikh isxaq's arrival?

Now, on to other discussions. You claim that foriegners accept that habar maqdi as isaaq, in fact, these foreigners who often are often a product of the delusional western point of view of the world and history, who use these kind of things to bolster in their mind their predisposition to distort history of the region, in order to rob people who they consider as "other" from their real history and identity. The british royal family claims descent from the prophet through five lines of descent...imagine that! At, the same their footsoldier academic magicians are distorting history among the prophet descendants and sowing seeds of doubt . This is the methodology of historical misappropation by which western elite and their so-called civilization is stealing peoples history, wealth, and humanity in world history, in order to establish an evil world order based on lies and filled with injustice and oppresion. This is why the magicians of the western elite pharaohs can toil in ancient egyptian tombs and relics, walls filled with pictures of black people and yet insist on denying what their eyes see, they propose anything under the sun but the simple truth, like cushtic are descendants of blond hamites. These magicians come to blunder for their pharaoh and should never be listened to uncritically and for every age there is a Moses.


You asked me what habr xabusheed was doing at this time in which habar maqdi which u claim are ur ancestors were under going nationalization (qaramayn) in harar: the simple answer to that is countless young mothers over the centuries paid witness to what we were doing when they sang to their young sayyid sons:

Tan iyo bombay
Halku bariisku
Ka beermo
Tolkaa ba lagu boqraaye
Kaaco baadi doono

From this land to bombay
And The fertile lands
that produce the rice
My son its your kin
Who are crowned as kings
Get up child and seek ur place

This lullaby is still exists in somaliland, anyone can confirm it from any somaliland grandmother. That is why I said earlier u claim and discuss something u don't fully grasp. U really have no idea the reality of sheikh Ishaq, had u had even an inkling of understanding u would know why his migration invogerated the region, and became the saving grace for the region. Its Through us Allah kept open the Indian ocean highways for haj and umra and trade, safeguarded the lion of judah and the cushtic culture.

The culuma agree that one of the defining sign of the devil is the obstructing of the path of pilgrimage, its said the devil sits on the path to prevent people from making their way to his House, and one of the greatest service one can render is removing any such obstruction for the pilgrims. Our forefathers were doing this exact service, along with nasiixa to muslim community in matter of religion and worldly affaires, the cushtics sayyids through their iron grip on the strategic island of janjira and through their other princely states in india and their strangle hold on other strategic points all the way to our coast at the entrance of the redsea kept the lanes of pilgrimage and trade open and through their engagement with the people they kept religion, justice unity alive in the hearts of the people.

The european powers vied each other for these lifelines (its unfortunate for the peoples of americas that columbus of the inquisition kingdom landed on their shores looking for india, marcos polo and other european so-called explorers were all after the same thing) because whoever attained supremacy in the indian ocean lanes would be the powerhouse in europe, the portuguese the most misguided, fanatical, and in humane formed the first wave, they were not looking to engage in the trade established by successive cushtic peoples for thousands of years, they were interested in absolute supremacy over the maritime routes and brutal subjugation of human beings wherever they landed. The cushtic xabshi sayyids at the entrance of the redsea or adel and at the shipping ports in india kept the lanes open as the unconquerable champions islam and humanity. What do u thing the whole highland midget footsoldiers and portuguese alliance and combined assualt was about, it was about the insatiable appetite of corrupt elite and their misguided and oppressed masses. The portuguese were the first once to introduce african slavery in india, from the sawaxili coast which they brutalized, but they were forced to use cape of good hope from which u hear their harrowing stories of their sailors dying horrible deaths and suffering mutiliation by severe weather. We outlasted wave after wave of these brutish nations portuguese, dutch, french etc., finally treaties were signed with clear stipulations to keep the lanes open with the british. The british were also subjects of these corrupt elite, however the worst had passed their was inkling of humanity shining through from brutalized europe, the british were engaged in combatting slavery and the masses in europe were overthrowing the evil feudal lords beginning with the french revolution.

U cannot understand the history of this region without understanding the so-called european renassaince, the importance of the oriental trade, the islamic lanes of pilgrimage and the cushtic sayyids and xabshis of the red sea coast and the indian coast. The western society despite democratisation continues to be invested in racism and defining itself against the 'other', its such boogey men which the evil elite continue to employ to destructive ends.

Now, regarding imam ghazi, what we have in futux is incomplete the other volume which has background information and lineages is missing, infact many copies of different sections of that volume existed in private hands, these may be jealous guided or perhaps lost due to the fact that both afweyne's regime and the midget highlanders for differing reasons were engaged in suppressing such documents. So, we can speculate but they atleast must be reasonable.

For example, I suspect that the imam was in no way an usurper but a sayyid and maternally related to his wife bati of wali ashama, the fact they are co-regents is a testimony to it. Co-regency of two married rulers representing two different lineage but common maternal lineage is a very old practice in cushtic society and especially very important during a period of transition, in this case from the lion of judah to the sayyids. The utility of this practice is obvious as well as its ingenuity. In fact, the 10th century yemeni traveller Al-hamdani describes this phenomenon of co-regency common in many cushtic societies overwide region in Northeast Africa. However, among more ancient cushtic societies we find this practice to be prominent during transitional period. When we finally have the identity of the imam I think I will be proven right. In the meanwhile, we can all wildly speculate even if it does not fit the context of its time, and the historical events that caused imam ghazi to wage a war against the portuguese and their pawns their midget highlanders, whose design was to dominate the maritime routes important for pilgrimage and trade, which would have given them dominance in europe with which they could blunder and oppress the masses of that continent and as well as our region.

[LiQaaye_TDH]

Gow Guryasame i didnt know you was a Proffesor, i cant even understand half of that english

[laander8]

hey guys I'm pretty sure whoever claimed Mohamed Mooge and Liiban is HJ is wrong.
they come from hargeysa and are Ciidagale.

both HJ and Ciidagale are great clans no need to argue here
the greatest living Isaaq poet is Hadrawi no doubt , but the greatest of all time... I dont know maybe we could agree on Timacadde

by the way whos biggest of ciidagale , ismail carre , isxaaq carre , muse carre ?

[abdikarim86]

the ismaaciil carre,isxaaq carre and muuse carre are the 3 main divisions of HY
not cidagale

[laander8]

yes i know

but are those divisions bigger then ciidagale separately

[LiQaaye_TDH]

Garxajis= HY and Ciidagle

HY= 80% Ismaacil Carre,

Muse Carre= Langaab 4 xabo

Isxaaq Carre Langaab kale

Ciidagale= Isxaaq Carre