The Swiss and the attack on Islam.

[Mad May]

Collective punishment is a crime against humanity, wallahi you are evidence that a lack of faith in God leads to moral depravity.

[The Nomad]

Third, there is no discrimination because Muslims don't allow others to free: worship, proselytize and build places of worship in their lands. You can not ask that which you don't grant.

I've never seen somebody so in love with a set of downright stupid arguments.

This has been explained to you at length, 'Muslims' don't claim to allow others to freely worship and built places of worship in their lands, Switzerland does.

I don't know how it can be made any simpler.

[Hoowle]

Collective punishment is a crime against humanity, wallahi you are evidence that a lack of faith in God leads to moral depravity.

Don't be close-minded dogmatist repeating what you hear without exercising any discernment.

What do you call WARFARE? It is a FORM of collective punishment. While I would disavow of other forms of collective punishment, such as ethnic cleansing, I can't and won't disavow of war.

[Hoowle]

Third, there is no discrimination because Muslims don't allow others to free: worship, proselytize and build places of worship in their lands. You can not ask that which you don't grant.

I've never seen somebody so in love with a set of downright stupid arguments.

This has been explained to you at length, 'Muslims' don't claim to allow others to freely worship and built places of worship in their lands, Switzerland does.

I don't know how it can be made any simpler.

This is complete nonsense because everyone is held to the SAME standard, namely the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Almost all countries are signatory to the declaration which binds them to its stipulation which include, among others, freedom of conscience (the right to believe in religion or no religion) and religion.

[paidmonk]

The Swiss people voted to ban the minarets, not the government. Its like if the people of Xamar said no to Hindi Temples in the city, its a simple direct vote by the local community and not the government. Its their vote, let them have it.

[SomeGuy]

voltage,

the title reads " The Swiss and the attack on Islam". Then all the "attack" you mentioned is banning minerates!. What a misleading and exagerating topic!. This is typical Somali argument.

I personally see no problem here. I wished if they banned all muslims comming to Swissland. We, Somalis, butcher any non-muslim, poor journalists, and we destroy churches and dig the buried non muslims graves. But then here we are shedding crocodile tears and mourning banned minerates which was patitioned by the Swiss people. Cut the crap will you?. It is like "tails I win, heads you lose".


SomeGuy

[Voltage]

The Swiss people voted to ban the minarets, not the government. Its like if the people of Xamar said no to Hindi Temples in the city, its a simple direct vote by the local community and not the government. Its their vote, let them have it.

The essence of democracy is MAJORITY RULE, MINORITY RIGHTS. Freedom of religion is a minority right and banning minarets while no other form of architectural piece of other religions is targeted is discrimininatory and breaks freedom of religion. If the damn Vatican said so how dumb are you people not to understand this basic principle? The minaret issue should have never been put up for referendum to begin with because it is not for the majority to do away with since it comes under universal freedom of religion.

Europe's own human rights watchdog chaired by Switzerland said so as much. It is not even legal to put up the issue for vote to begin with.

GENEVA – A Swiss ban on minarets could violate fundamental liberties, Europe's top human-rights watchdog said Monday in an indication that the heavily criticized vote could be overturned.

The Council of Europe said banning "new minarets in Switzerland raises concerns as to whether fundamental rights of individuals, protected by international treaties, should be subject to popular votes."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091130/ap_ ... inaret_ban

[Voltage]

voltage,

the title reads " The Swiss and the attack on Islam". Then all the "attack" you mentioned is banning minerates!. What a misleading and exagerating topic!. This is typical Somali argument.

I personally see no problem here. I wished if they banned all muslims comming to Swissland. We, Somalis, butcher any non-muslim, poor journalists, and we destroy churches and dig the buried non muslims graves. But then here we are shedding crocodile tears and mourning banned minerates which was patitioned by the Swiss people. Cut the crap will you?. It is like "tails I win, heads you lose".

SomeGuy

Another i.diot. Comparing an anarchic and lawless society with the place where the "Geneva Conventions" took place. Why don't you compare it to Somalia when it was a "country", Christians were free to worship with their churches and all in a country that is 99.99% Muslim.

[Xamari_76]

^^
When Somalia was a country...When jalle mohammed siyad bare was president. Allahunaxristo. good old days.

[Voltage]

Xamari, this image is too big for me to post. Go to it and look at the bottom how peaceful our nation was

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/orig ... 878734.jpg

[SomeGuy]

Why don't you compare it to Somalia when it was a "country", Christians were free to worship with their churches and all in a country that is 99.99% Muslim.

Really? christian were free to worship?

For your info, the bishop of the church you posted its picture(Salvatore Colombo) was killed in broad day light when there was a government in Somalia 1989. Not to mention, that church was only catholic denomination. And it was built when Italy was colonizing Southern Somalia. There was no single church built after Somali independence 1960. In fact, I read somewhere that early Somali constitution forbids a Somali person to believe a faith other than Islamic faith. It was changed only in 1979, after Western countries put pressure on Somali government.

Get your freaking fact straight, you little moron. I was not born yesterday nor am I johny-came-late(soogalooti) like you. That is your focked up country when there was a government.

And more thing before I leave, you need to understand what Memorandum is ? it is vote from people--not a government. get it?
Swiss people voted to amend their constitution with simple words, "The building of minarets is prohibited".


SomeGuy

[Voltage]

I hate these i.diots who learn how to string two sentences together curtesy of ESL and give themselves an air of knowledge. Somalia's state religion is Islam because 99.99% of its people are Muslim but there was religious freedom and the fact that not only did a Cathedral of that magnitude exist in the middle of downtown in the capital city but also had its own Bishop accorded to it by the Vatican proves as much. What else need for other churces was there? The country is 99.99% Muslim and the only Christians were the Italian (Catholic) remnants!

The fact the Bishop was killed months before the overthrow of the very government that existed just points even more to the tolerance that existed. Why was he not killed when the government had controlled the control in the 70's, and early 80's but mere months before the government itself was overthrown. Or you believe revolutions to be spontaneous and not things that creep up? His killing was just another sign of what was to befall the nation. I.diot!

And more thing before I leave, you need to understand what Memorandum is ? it is vote from people--not a government. get it?
Swiss people voted to amend their constitution with simple words, "The building of minarets is prohibited".

It is called "referendum" and this brings up a whole another issue of whether basic freedoms are up for popular vote. I.diot!

[suga_delic]

excuse Basra shes ill. All those burgers must got 2 her brains.

Bt bk 2 topic, is fear dats making da Swiss act this + ignorance.

[suga_delic]

masha'allah, this is wonderful news... I'm ecstatic that other Somalis have found the light and ditched silly superstitions and antiquated dogma.

an atheist saying mashalah? Priceless. 4 everything else theres master card.

[Amethyst]

Why are we surprised that a nation with the Christian Cross on its flag, refuses the building of minarets on top of the 4 its already got in a nation of less than 7 mill and the size of Vermont & New Hampshire? Seriously?

Switzerland, is a really weird country, tho. Made up of a buncha tiny Canton's (provinces), each Canton has the same power as all of the other ones combined, not to mention its own flag, or language in some cases. The people voted, and the majority won. Doesn't say its right in what they voted for, but I cant see how its any different from the Smoking ban they put into place not too long ago. The thinking of the Swiss is that if ANYTHING is proposed and enough people show up to vote, its valid. They prolly wont be able to overturn this until the next election, as it would not be constitutionally right in doing so. But we'll see if they cave in.

From experience tho, I don't think the Swiss are all that intolerant and do not allow Muslims to practice what they believe in. Ive been to the very first mosque built in the country, inaugurated by King Faysal of Saudi Arabia himself back in the 70's. Its more than a beautiful Piece of art.....and bigger than any other mosque I've been to in the states. Most of the Muslims are obviously Turks, with a Buncha Eastern Europeans like the Bosnian's and Kosovan's. Some had been there for decades, and u couldn't even tell they were Muslims, until they let you in on their ethnicities in a convo, and casually slipped that in there. It's like they try super hard to blend in. To be Swiss. Something that the Gov. CLEARLY encouraged by forcing "immigrants" to live dispersed throughout the cities to prevent from the buildup of ethnic Enclaves. Which brings to the point why the right-wingers, the SVP party, is getting more and more popular. Normally People dont even claim to support them in public, because they were so nazi-like in their past proposals, and not to mention their outrageous Campaign posters (The sheep one was somewhat funny, I gotta admit!). Sure they gained a little in power about 2 years ago, but that's only cuz they were riding on the Anti-immigration rhetoric followed by incidents where African males were accused of raping some elderly ladies. No kidding...lol..Anyway....I for one would LOVE to see shitty little Switzerland punished by Muslims via Boycotts and refusals of many leaders to hold talks in Geneva, due to the issue.....but what we punishing them for though? They voted for the damn thing, and had been talking about for years while the Muslims in the country were fundraising for whats to be the biggest yet mosque to be built in the Capital of Berne. The mosque will still be built. Just not with a minaret. Tuff luck, I guess.