somalis read this

[bareento]

Are u sure voltage?

Breento always discus with you guys....how come she never talk to us xalimos bal?

Helwa!!!!

This for u

I hope the hormone loaded geeljirees wont kill me for that

[HELWAA]

Are u sure voltage?

Breento always discus with you guys....how come she never talk to us xalimos bal?

Helwa!!!!

This for u

I hope the hormone loaded geeljirees wont kill me for that

oh thanx dear..

[Gara Man]

Masha Allah,the area around Harar is really beautiful...

I do not think that hararis consider themselves as Somali;
In today's harari the Oromo element (Jaarso + Noole) is bigger
There r a lot of harari familis who trace back their ancestory to Somali clans though
their language is definitely semitic;

Wheather Hararis r Harlas? I do not think so;
The Harla were major muslim tribe of that region, participated in the Imam Ahmed campain;
they were not Somalis at the time but now r sub sub clan of a somali clan (Issa? i am not sre though)


Concerning Argobba There is/was a walled city not very far from Harar, they do have (or used to have) Semitic language
But now they r completely Oromonized...

As for the hyped up story of "Oromo Expansion" , I do not really believe in it...
If expansion there was how can oromo tribes like Akichu or Yajju participate in Imam Gureys campain.
but that is another story...


Gara Man, Oral history of that region is also worth interest!
Its full of epic combats between saints (some of whom r founders of todays Somali clans!!) or dragoons (jawwees)
using mystical powers;
Jinnis and Mount Qundhudho also play their part in that battle....

B.

Barento, I have hard time believing in those tales personally but are you referring about those "Buhtus" or something close to it?( no need to write over this) b/c thats a straight up myth. However kundudo plays a big role in a lot of scenarios. Place of raba dorri, most likely headquarters and birth place of imam ahmed, the 77 war. etc....
Also do you know there are also rock painting in kombolcha as well? Overall like the you said there is alot of things here to discover.

About the Harari, dont the sheekaal claim harari orgin or something? b/c i thought they did. The simple acknowledgement of one claiming an ethnicity in this area doesnt do no justice to the historical essence of the past though, which even ethnic group you are referring to. I believe the clan names and some abstirsi and to ancient names of cities and towns plays a more crucial role.

That leads me to my original question which was about dakkar b/c i heard there is sub group of the jaarso that is indeed similar to that name and occupy the same region that showed on that map. i have noticed that akichu abtirsi there is a sub group called jaarso as well.

[Gara Man]

What is up with the Oromos getting what Amhara write and trying to spin it on us as "objective". Barneeta got another Amhara written stuff and tried to say it was objective in saying Ahmed Gurey was non-Somali.

No offense to Oromos but Oromos are the weakest ethnic group in the history of man. You guys are 60% of Ethiopia's population and while being slaved in the very country you are a majority, you are not even the main opposition group. Somalis who are only 6% of the population there are doing more damage than you guys could ever do.

Amhara will never fear you because they have you, but they will always look at us with fear until the end of the time. Don't bring their propaganda designed to undermine us to our forums again.

What the heck. There is no "objective" here or whatever you mean by that. I simply brought a text that i wanted other opinions for, thats all.

but look at us oromos.
We have been looted, raided, killed, tortured, imprisoned and frankly just all out humiliated and yet we are about pretty much the same. Your simple mere remark of saying differently has no real significance really. To tell you the truth i dont even know why i am responding to this. You seem like an individual that is stuck in the past and talking about the glory days. And coming to think about that is why you seem pretty upset.
Amhara man touched a nerve hasnt he?

[bareento]

Gara Man,

I was not refering to the "buttu" tales
It is rather about the storys of battles b/n tribes in which some saints with "powers" took part;
giants along dragoons (jawwees) took part too.
At a young age I used to go to the family of the last Noole Damina (his last wife);
and I heard these storys...alas i didnt pay enough attention
Its my opinion that these storys can help to understand the history of the region.

I didnt know there were rock painting at kombolcha thnk u

There r a lot of storys about the hararis but I never heard their side of the story;
Shekhal claiming everything that suits them, "no one" never took their abtirsi seriously;
Them being of harari origin and trying to fit in in their environment is a credible explanation of their attitude.

The hararis I knew being "fake ones" (noolee and jaarso), I didnt ask for their abtirsi
No doubt Hararis r the original stock of the region;

As for the "jaarsoo" its a name and found all over oromoland: there r jarsoos in Macca
federation in walleggaa, there r Tulama jaarsoos in showa ...

There was/is a an Oromo journalist, oral/local historian, poet, genealogist and maybe politician who is doing
some works over that region; his name is Jaafar Ali.
I dont know how credible he is.
U can get his CD from Oromo communities from North America

B.

[Hyperactive]

intresting topic, even though my family originated from that area harar and sirounded
im so ignorent about the history of my people. i would be glad if i wasnt somali though.lol

[bareento]

intresting topic, even though my family originated from that area harar and sirounded
im so ignorent about the history of my people. i would be glad if i wasnt somali though.lol

Hyper,

People from those area consider that land and everything it produces as blessed and special...
Vegetables, khat, meat, coffee from that area are thought to have special taste;
Some elderly people even think they can say whether some products r from this area just by tasting

Ask your parents, u will learn a lot of interesting things

B.

[Aliyyi Oromada]

Assalamu aleykum,

Interesting discussion, for the most part.

There were many migrations that made up the populations of that region. The Harala, Gaturi, Malasay are predominantly decended from 'Aksumite' Muslims who migrated from modern day Eritrea, to the Harar region. Although I can't put a date on the movement, roughly 900-1000 years ago but I could be wrong. I say predominantly because people of arab, turkish etc. decent may have mingled with them over the years. They were divided between urban and rural tribes, and from my understanding the Harala were a rural people, and their numbers indicate this. For example, in futuh al habasha they provided man power which the harari of today would not be able to provide even with the population growth.

There were other tribes, such as Balaw who were ethnically Beja/Arab mixed arabic speakers from western eritrea/eastern sudan. Futuh al habasha says this group inhabited Hubat, which is now Hubata, district of Haramaya. The region at the time seemed divided with many tribes with their own strong holds, only united by conquest. One of the last being the Oromo conquest around the time Odaa Bultum was established. Some Oromo elders say Odaa Bultum was established long before, but I respectfully disagree. What happened to these group (Harala, Balaw etc.) in short is, nothing. They are where they were before. Except now part of Afran Qallo & Bareento Oromo history. The rural tribes were absorbed. And if you look at world history, this happens all the time ie. Gaul didn't disappear after it was conquered by Rome, Anatolia didn't disappear after it was conquered by Turks. People tend to stay where they are despite social and political changes.

This is a good reason to abandon ideas like nationalism, because who knows 1000 years from now if your language will even exist. You will have dedicated your life for nothing. Instead ponder on why you are here, rather than what you are here.

[bareento]

Hi Aliyyi Oromoda,

Very nice overall analysis
Wat about the present day hararis, were they part of bigger tribe?


I think u tend to exagerate the non Oromo elements in the Afran Qallo confederation!

True Oromos assimilated a lot of alien elements, but that can be traced back by genealogy: for instance finding muslim ancestors before in the 16th century!
but in Afran Qallo case all our ancestor's name r oromo names for me this points out that our ancestors couldnt have assimilated large number muslims in the 16th century!
But u can argue that the conquered took up the genealogy of the afran qallo.... God knows the best

Personnaly I do not believe in Oromo migration theory! I think Oromos were politically dominated in the 16th century (pretty much as we r today) when they found out a way to conquer back their land and their sovereignity and unity

B.

[Hyperactive]

intresting topic, even though my family originated from that area harar and sirounded
im so ignorent about the history of my people. i would be glad if i wasnt somali though.lol

Hyper,

People from those area consider that land and everything it produces as blessed and special...
Vegetables, khat, meat, coffee from that area are thought to have special taste;
Some elderly people even think they can say whether some products r from this area just by tasting

Ask your parents, u will learn a lot of interesting things

B.

lol that's really intresting. i know that land is blessed.
i hear about it from my father from time to time.

my gransfather imigrated to somalis some time in 1960s .

[Gara Man]

barento,
I have too also noticed common patern of the name jaarso in other oromo lands, i even heard there is a place called geri jaarso there somewhere in the west. as well as a common name among the borana.

but i would have to say i kind of agree with what aliyyi said. Like to say there are other elements involved in dagaa make up as for one. I am not saying oromos migrated from somewhere else to here in massive numbers but i believe there were orginals here like harla and dir as well as other Oromos then later in coming ppl established themselves. Also do you know coming to a archeological point that ppl have found old islamic coins in dengego outside of dire dawa too?

Being skeptial of ones abtirsi is kind of ironic b/c others can say the sam e to oromos. Like in the AQ federation, can one clan be really the uncle of others? Or is there assimilation going around here.
And those Oromos names in their genology , do they really have any bearings on current oromo names and does it really define if one is muslim or not?
and what does oda bultum have on the effect of one being a pastrolist or cultivator?
thx

Hyper,
this land is for real. It is diverse and ranges from cool semi mountainous fertile lands to burning hot desert plains. I read one time this tourist was in babile and was amazed of how well fed and plumped the camels and oxen were despite the fact that the land they come from is a scourching semi desert terrain with almost nothing in sight.

[bareento]

Gara Man,

That area being part of a ancient muslim state, there is nthg surprising in finding islamic coins in the area.

The skepticism over the genealogy of some tribe/clans is not based over
the fakeness of their abtirsi but rather over the fact they change ethnicity very often;

Every abtirsi is more or less fake, but yet it can give a lot of information over the people


I really wonder why muslims in 16th century would call them selves: waday, waaree, usso,
bareento, jaarso...
Usually when a people accept Islam, the first thing they do is take arab/muslim name
Current oromo names, in that region are arab/muslim names although for the last twenty years there
is a strong tendency come back to the Oromo names;


One thing I want to point out when making hypothesis about that region is to take into account the Afar people;
They used to live in that area up until a century ago when Issas kicked them out; there might be a lot of things
to learn from their storys, myths and abtirsi.


Its believed most non Oromo elements in AQ r of Somali Origin; for instance I heard Gurguras around Dire Dhawa
acknowledge being part of Afran Qallo but totally reject being Oromo claiming to be Dir Somalis;


Its an old Oromo custom to name the balance of power or the seniority between members of a federation as the
one b/n brothers, cousins and uncles etc ...
hence eldest son means the dominant in the group...
So the one being the uncle of the other doesnot necessarly mean one is assimilating the other;



Oda Bultum is whole different subject: its one of five places where Oromo laws were made
The Gadaa system came to an end in the area, among other reasons, because oromos gave up pastoralism.

B.

[Aliyyi Oromada]

asham Bareento,

Wat about the present day hararis, were they part of bigger tribe?

I'm not sure.

I think u tend to exagerate the non Oromo elements in the Afran Qallo confederation!

True Oromos assimilated a lot of alien elements, but that can be traced back by genealogy: for instance finding muslim ancestors before in the 16th century!
but in Afran Qallo case all our ancestor's name r oromo names for me this points out that our ancestors couldnt have assimilated large number muslims in the 16th century!
But u can argue that the conquered took up the genealogy of the afran qallo.... God knows the best

Personnaly I do not believe in Oromo migration theory! I think Oromos were politically dominated in the 16th century (pretty much as we r today) when they found out a way to conquer back their land and their sovereignity and unity

I agree that geneology can be used to trace that, garuu yeroo ibidda/shanyi lakkooynu yoo fagaatte maqaa 20-25 ni lakkaawa namni tokko. Maqaan 20-25 jaarraa 5 ni geha (5 centuries). Hangas ol kha tahu natti hin fakkaatu. San dura waan jiru nuuf hin himu.

Secondly, there is nothing I have come across in the oral history that indicates at any point that Oromos were dominated, but there is plenty that indicates Muslim ancestry. For example the 16th century war, AQ elders give accounts of it as their war, these are the stories most AQ grew up with, and I've never heard otherwise. And in that time period (16 century) there is no account of any religion other than Islam in the harargee region.

As for expansion, I know it has been used as propaganda and I used to reject it for the same reason. But once you look at it in the context of history, and not modern politics, it makes sense. I don't know if you've read a book by Prof Muhammed Hassan (The Oromo of Ethiopia, A History 1570-1860). That book focuses on laga gibee region, but it is related to the topic. Perhaps it would warm you up to the idea.

The pattern of mankind is migration, conquest, assimilation, mingling, trading customs, ideas, traditions yadi yada. It's like drinking a glass of water, everybody does it. This occurs more frequently in certain places than others, particularly in more fertile or coastal lands it happens more often. Thats why you you are more likely to encounter homogenous ppl if you go to secluded harsh environments like danaakhil , whereas theres more diversity in fertile regions (genetically, linguistically).

Its believed most non Oromo elements in AQ r of Somali Origin; for instance I heard Gurguras around Dire Dhawa
acknowledge being part of Afran Qallo but totally reject being Oromo claiming to be Dir Somalis;

Gurguras are not AQ, but they are our brothers.


Gara Man,

A clan certainly can't be another clans uncle, but one clan can descend from person X, while another clan descends from person X's uncle. ie. Noole = Ala's nephew. I don't question the geneology per se, its a well organized tool. But its limited, and will always leave a lot of questions unanswered.