SomaliNet Forums

bareento wrote:

AbdiWahab252 wrote:Bareento,

Hellfire is a relatively new concept in religious terms. There are some religions that believed that evil was punished right here on Earth not the hereafter. if you did something wrong, you would suffer or get a series of unfortunate events like disease, disaster etc.

Indeed AbdiWahab,
For instance in ancient Oromo religion that was the case;
and many Shaykhs had difficulties to explain wat Hell was to Waaqist Oromos.

B.

Bareento,

Maintaining Saafu was very important. Any deviation from it was punishable by misfortune.

Is this a trick question?

They way I see it, it boils down to choice. What do you choose to beleive? Decide and do not question your choice/selection unless you have a through knowledge of the Quran. My assumption is that if one has a through knowledge of the Quran, the question about iimaan would be a moot one.

AbdiWahab252 wrote:

bareento wrote:

AbdiWahab252 wrote:Bareento,

Hellfire is a relatively new concept in religious terms. There are some religions that believed that evil was punished right here on Earth not the hereafter. if you did something wrong, you would suffer or get a series of unfortunate events like disease, disaster etc.

Indeed AbdiWahab,
For instance in ancient Oromo religion that was the case;
and many Shaykhs had difficulties to explain wat Hell was to Waaqist Oromos.

B.

Bareento,

Maintaining Saafu was very important. Any deviation from it was punishable by misfortune.

My dear friend AbdiWahab, u r well versed in Oromo culture

Ancient Oromos, unlike their Somali neighbours, were law and regulation freaks;
there were laws for everything and they used to think breaking any of these laws were Safu...

B.

Bareento,

I am quite fascinated by your culture. It offers a window into ancient SOmali culture before the Arabisation.

The concept of a Gadaa makes a whole lot of sense among agricultural people. I doubt it could work on nomadic people.

Koronto69 wrote:
How do you stop yourself from going off the cliff?

How does one reconcile between concrete scientific evidence and religious rulings/claims that are in stark opposition to one another?

.

muslim-man ,take a look at this akhii..

Origin of the solar system

Main article: Formation and evolution of the Solar System

The Solar System (including the Earth) formed from a large, rotating cloud of interstellar dust and gas called the solar nebula, orbiting the Milky Way's galactic center. It was composed of hydrogen and helium created shortly after the Big Bang 13.7 Ga, as well as heavier elements ejected by supernovas.[12] About 4.6 Ga, the solar nebula began to contract, possibly due to the shock wave of a nearby supernova. Such a shock wave would have also caused the nebula to rotate and gain angular momentum. As the cloud began to accelerate its rotation, gravity and inertia flattened it into a protoplanetary disk oriented perpendicularly to its axis of rotation. Most of the mass concentrated in the middle and began to heat up, but small perturbations due to collisions and the angular momentum of other large debris created the means by which protoplanets up to several kilometres in size began to form, orbiting the nebular center.

The infall of material, increase in rotational speed and the crush of gravity created an enormous amount of kinetic heat at the center. Its inability to transfer that energy away through any other process at a rate capable of relieving the build-up resulted in the disk's center heating up. Ultimately, nuclear fusion of hydrogen into helium began, and eventually, after contraction, a T Tauri star ignited to create the Sun. Meanwhile, as gravity caused matter to condense around the previously perturbed objects outside the gravitational grasp of the new sun, dust particles and the rest of the protoplanetary disk began separating into rings. Successively larger fragments collided with one another and became larger objects, ultimately becoming protoplanets.[13] These included one collection approximately 150 million kilometers from the center: Earth. The planet formed about 4.54 billion years ago (within an uncertainty of 1%),[1] and was largely completed within 10–20 million years.[14] The solar wind of the newly formed T Tauri star cleared out most of the material in the disk that had not already condensed into larger bodies.

Computer simulations have shown that planets with distances equal to the terrestrial planets in our solar system can be created from a protoplanetary disk.[15] The now widely accepted nebular hypothesis suggests that the same process which gave rise to the solar system's planets produces accretion disks around virtually all newly forming stars in the universe, some of which yield planets.[16]

....And the quran says.

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe? (Sura Al-anbiya.ayah 30)

Koronto, At some point in your life coming into adulthood, using your brain without the cultural influence, you have to conclude on your own that God exists and you have the evidence. Beyond that, once you reach that conclusion, faith/iimaan weakens or grows stronger based on what you do as a deed. The heart is equated to a mirror, with every sin committed a dark spot gets on it, and as these dark spots grow, the brilliance of the mirror disappears, it reflects nothing eventually, that is how distant the hearts grow from Allah's light, hence, the doubts?

The Quran does it for me as a final testament to Allah's existence and his supremacy. Science defined is: "systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation." That same world which the science observes and finds meaning in it is the very property of God who laid the laws of mathematics everything in that world must follow, therefore, Science is a tool to advance appreciation for God's creative supremacy, his power, his infinite knowledge, and his abilities.

- In the words of a convert reagrding the Quran, He said: "The Quran, In its exalted style, its power, its inexorable finality, its uncanny way of anticipating the arguments of the atheistic heart in advance and answering them; it was a clear exposition of God as God and man as man, the revelation of the awe-inspiring Divine Unity being the identical revelation of social and economic justice among men."-


If the Quran doesn't convince anyone, nothing else can convince. The occassional doubts resulting out of satans whispers quickly evaporate upon reading some Quranic verses and contemplating over that. That is what strengthens my faith everytime it weakens, the quran is a constant reminder of the TRUTH.

Thanks for the answers. I do not doubt Allah's existence and the reminder is in everything we see. I was more concerned with reconciling between the religion and modern science, specially in relation to my field. Has anyone taken microbiology & pathology? If yes, then you'd probably understand my point.

When is a Muslim supposed to draw a limit in terms of the knowledge he/she is seeking? Is it by increasing one's iimaan? Then maybe with a stronger faith, a person is able to acquire such knowledge without worrying about conflicting issues? Is it possible that perhaps some Islamic knowledge was somehow either lost or misinterpreted during history and we sometimes end up with some shaky claims? Thus why there are numerous discrepencies and opposing theories between the religion and modern science? Or maybe more simplistic explanations were given to the pagan Arabs due to their limited knowledge therefore why some answers sound a bit weird?

^^^ I haven't studied those fields but care to tell me what the contradictions are?

Koronto,

what did you study that contradicts Quran?

Its the whole evolutionary microbiology field, immunology and pathogenic microbes in general. Scientists claim these little buggers got to where they are today through an elaborate evolutionary process spanning over 3.8 billion years. Microfossils back-up these claims, but how do you reconcile these claims with creationism and Islam? Basic systematics & taxonomy is ladden with biological evolution, this is preliminary stuff, it gets more complicated & complex as you study it.

Then you got genetics which is a different story.

I think one has to approach the Quran for what it is rather than what it isnt, it is not a science book. What is mentioned that agrees with modern science/human discoveries after millenia plus proves only the Omnipotence of the source(Allah). If there is an omission of some facts in the quran(How Old the Earth/Universe is, What was created before mankind, what existed and what didn't exist for examples) it is so because the Quran was not intended to be a Science book(a book that addresses those issues). The Quran left something for mankind to discover on their own. Allah directs mankind to think and ponder on their surroundings. So, the door to making discoveries is wide open and what people discover doesn't contradict the fact that the power behind those things hidden in the past does in fact exist. The Quran is a book intended for societies to build upon the foundations of their morality, justice, kindness, spirituality and religion(culture).


PS: Didn't the Quran mention that Allah told the Angels he wanted to create a vicegerent of his on earth? There is an indication there that the Planet existed way before mankind was created. So, we don';t have all the inforamtion because it is not encessary for one's spiritual growth to have all information. What is important was revealed. May Allah increase our faith exponentially.

Geo,

I agree with most of what you've written. Its one of those tricky things in life that one must balance and sometimes we can't help but wonder and ask. But I've never questioned the existence of Allah, I don't believe in coincidences and to claim out of a billion galaxies, out of a billion stars, out of all the planets, earth alone is the only spot in the universe to support life, that somehow it all happened randomly. Its insulting to the mind to even think we are here by mere chance, that the milky way happened as a result of unstable hydrogen clusters and our goldilocks planet just happened to be at the right place at the right time. Not possible.

But I can't help but wonder if somehow some valuable Islamic information was either lost or misinterpreted, what's your take?

bareento wrote:By never combining Religion and Science : never look into Science to prove Religion and of course never refer to Religious books for scientific knowledge!

Religion is not Science, Religion is not a recipe to go to Paradise!!
Religion is SPIRITUALITY, its Love of God and selfless Good Action...

That is wat my Suufii ancestors used to teach in the blessed city of Harar and the no less blessed area surrounding it

B.

Of course one cannot compare religion to Science but doesn't the religion of Islam mention so much about Science, hence the things that scientists of today and hundreds of years back found...are the things revealed in the Qur'an 1400 years ago!!!! So in my opinion Science and Religion go hand in hand....might as well say Science is 1/4 of the religion itself!!!

Voltage wrote:

AbdiWahab252 wrote:Too much education is bad for your imaan

My iimaan hasn't lessened at all. It's increased.

lol Voltage is implying here that he is an educated man And I do agree with u on this

bareento wrote:

Shirib wrote:

bareento wrote:By never combining Religion and Science : never look into Science to prove Religion and of course never refer to Religious books for scientific knowledge!

Religion is not Science, Religion is not a recipe to go to Paradise!!
Religion is SPIRITUALITY, its Love of God and selfless Good Action...

That is wat my Suufii ancestors used to teach in the blessed city of Harar and the no less blessed area surrounding it

B.

how is that not a recipe to go to heaven though? Religion says if u believe and do good deeds you will go to heaven, that is the recipe

In that case all your actions are not selfless, u r gambling or better said u r investing ...

Whereas when I pray, and do Good deeds its to get closer to the Allmighty, I dont really care if he gives me this or that or send me to Hell...
This is the true Iman and Submitting to God

B.

Now I totally agree with you...of course one should look forward to getting closer to Allah instead of selfish matters...ur aim should be getting closer to God spiritually, mentally, physically, and emotionally!!