AYATOLLAH Bareento,Come In

[bareento]

This is mindblowing! there is somali subclan called Karanle

Hawiye and HawiyA must be the same people and they must be Somalis!

James any explanation how some Hawiya ended up in far south!
That must be a tremendous migration!

B

[gurey25]

bareento it seems your borg days did not start in 1560 but it must have been a very old tradition.

[bareento]

Gurey, Somalis are also an association of original and adopted clans!
The difference being that we acknowledge it and u wrap it in myths
Besides genealogy the way arabs understand and practice it is new to africa and even to Somalis.
The word "ilma" ie son, express seven ways of becoming ones son: by birth, war prisoners, by individual adoption,by mass adoption...
Only God knows how many people become Oromo! the same is true for somalis

most oromo tribes of today existed by early 16th century...so we can say if there were any adoption (tribe wise) it should have occured long before the 16th century!

B.

[gurey25]

this is true barentoo,
somalis are also an association of clans..

the difference is that when the arab geneology became common these pracices decreased till they are nothing but political expressions today.
Like hawiye in the south accepting xawaadle and others into their confederacy, even thought it is acknowledged that they are not geneologically hawiye.

my own sub clan has a clan that has anther clan in its lineage that is not part of the geneology.
but they are for all intents and purposes full members of the clan..

i think this is common for the Oromo..

and infact in the original arab bedioun traditions they also have accepted mechanisms for adopting foriegners into their clans and giving them full membership.

[Aliyyi Oromada]

I dont know what a baabbile oromo is tbh. Never seen one in my life. Seen Noolee oromos, Ala oromos, Jaarsoo oromos, Oborraa oromos, but I've never seen a person who claimed to belong to the baabbilee oromo clan. Not in harargee, not in the diaspora. There are hawiya somalis in hararge who spoke oromo for so long they forgot they were somali...like the gurguraa. But during the '77 war the hawiyas in that area were very loyal to the wslf. They even had their own division, think it was called ahmed gurey or something.

[James Dahl]

This is mindblowing! there is somali subclan called Karanle

Hawiye and HawiyA must be the same people and they must be Somalis!

James any explanation how some Hawiya ended up in far south!
That must be a tremendous migration!

B

The big clans in the south are not native to the south. The original inhabitants of southern Somalia south of Mogadishu are Saabe clans; Garre, Irroole, Jiddu, Tunni, Mirifle, Geledi etc. The pre-Hawiye inhabitants of central Somalia are Balcad clans like Ajuuraan and Hintire, though it's not clear who the original inhabitants of central and northeastern Somalia were (perhaps the ancestors of the Eyle people, Waata hunter-gatherers).

What happened is that the Ajuuraan conquered and converted the Saabe in the 14th and 15th centuries, which is how the Ajuuraan and Hintire became southern Somali clans. In the mid 16th century the Hiraab Hawiye migrated down the Shabeele and defeated the Ajuuraan, which is how Hiraab Hawiye became central and southern Somali clans. The Ajuuraan migrated out of central Somalia entirely and are nowadays found mostly in the far south or in Mogadishu. Most Hawiye clans remain in Ethiopia or along the Shabelle valley like the Karanle, Rarane, Gungundhabe, Xawaadle etc.

The Garre and Ajuuraan then became vassals of the Borana for a while, but then Daarood from Ogaden (primarily Ogadeen and Marehan) invaded the Jubba Valley in an invasion that actually continues to this day, Daarood from northern Somalia continue to move to the Jubba Valley, as the Hawd, Mudug and Bari continue to dry out over the centuries. Nowadays Garre and Ajuuraan have been pushed into Kenya and are a minority in the Jubbas.

The ultimate homeland of all Samaale is the surrounding area of Harar. Hawiye from south of Harar, Darood from the area around Jigjiga southeast of Harar, and Dir from the coast near Zeila. Balcad before they migrated south to central Somalia to establish their empire previously lived near Berbera. The previous and unknown inhabitants of Central and northern Somalia before this time have probably been absorbed into Somali clans for over a thousand years.

Somalis are nomads and conquerors, their history is one of wandering and conquest. If Ahmed Gurey had been successful in his invasion of Ethiopia, there would probably be subclans of various clans who are known for living in Aksum or Addis Ababa.

[bareento]

Why do they live the Blessed lush lands of Harerge to go and conqueur empty dry lands!
Somalis always amaze me

B.

[Aliyyi Oromada]

Why do they live the Blessed lush lands of Harerge to go and conqueur empty dry lands!
Somalis always amaze me

B.

baabbileen goggooyduu dha.

[bareento]

Why do they live the Blessed lush lands of Harerge to go and conqueur empty dry lands!
Somalis always amaze me

B.

baabbileen goggooyduu dha.

Hayye!
!
Gosti baabbile ja'aniin ni jirti, hundi saani hawiyyaa miti.
Hawiyyaan naannawa sani, khanuma garte himatti; hogga baddaa dhufan nu himatan hoggaa jara bira dhaqaniis jara himatan!

B

[Gara Man]

Babilee is a place not a clan. I will still go by statement from what I realized about that place.

It doesnt really matter if the hawiyaa(the oromo one) are really somalis or not. Right now they claim being oromo and heavily speak oromo but do practice a form of pastoralism. Even the hawiye are not bad, being ethnic somalis in all, they proved to be viable members of society in Oromo territory.

[St8OuttaDirree]

Thinking of it, the Hawiyas i've met look 100% Somali. And haven't really met any Oromo who said they're Baabille.
These people are most likly orominized Somalis, Many roam the lushes Hararge area.