The Recovery of Somalia & the End of Yemen= Opportunities?

[union]

Fair point Voltage. But you can’t expect people to merely rationalize what happened especially in something as highly charged and emotional as a war to liberate millions of Somali people against a historic enemy.

[Voltage]

Germany killed how many Frenchmen just couple decades ago? Today they share the same currency and same institutions. Union, the autocratic dictatorship of one-half of the Yemeni people acted maliciously towards us not because they wanted to but because they had to, and somehow you believe that should color the historical relations between our peoples and the hopeful future we might share as neighbors? I know you are more sensible than that.

I even advocate a rethinking of ties between the Ethiopian State and the Somali State in the resurgence of Somali statehood. We would prosper better as friends than enemies. Simply said, I do not advocate for any more war. I am a believer in smart politics and value thorough negotiations, compromise, and even confederation if need be to clamp down on such things as territorial disputes.

If need be, I wish my part of the Somali Republic to simply cede and federate with the Republic of Kenya. I am a pragmatist now, emotionalism has driven Somalis over the abyss.

[accident]

Arab apologist do not understand a safe, secure, sustainable, self-sufficient Somalia. They rather be under someone's boot, all the time. They are like that one child in the play ground trying to please everyone.

[Voltage]

I suppose then you are the big Ogre who after a single run in with a peer who fights back seems never to get up again. How enchanting.

[Coeus]

Arab apologist do not understand a safe, secure, sustainable, self-sufficient Somalia. They rather be under someone's boot, all the time. They are like that one child in the play ground trying to please everyone.

Sad but true.

[Voltage]

Union, you are much the Somali neo-con are you not? Intriguing.

[union]

Germany killed how many Frenchmen just couple decades ago? Today they share the same currency and same institutions. Union, the autocratic dictatorship of one-half of the Yemeni people acted maliciously towards us not because they wanted to but because they had to, and somehow you believe that should color the historical relations between our peoples and the hopeful future we might share as neighbors? I know you are more sensible than that.

I even advocate a rethinking of ties between the Ethiopian State and the Somali State in the resurgence of Somali statehood. We would prosper better as friends than enemies. Simply said, I do not advocate for any more war. I am a believer in smart politics and value thorough negotiations, compromise, and even confederation if need be to clamp down on such things as territorial disputes.

If need be, I wish my part of the Somali Republic to simply cede and federate with the Republic of Kenya. I am a pragmatist now, emotionalism has driven Somalis over the abyss.

The was a historic animosity between France and Germany, with France having utterly humiliated Germany in WW1. The hostile history between the two nations has been acknowledged, apologies given and received and reparations paid. And still some of the citizens of France and Great Brittan to this day are fearful of Germany and its intentions. I am not advocating for a war between Somalia and Yemen, we’d lose, but I refuse to simply rationalize away a treacherous act that called into question years of friendly relations. We can’t just pretend like it didn’t happen. Other Arab countries like Libya also took part in the hostile actions against Somalia, how can you rationalize that? Are you going to say Colonel Gaddafi who was awash with petro dollars also was on the verge of collapse and needed to assist in undermining Somalia’s liberation efforts to survive? Whitewashing and being an apologist for an atrocity against Somalia will do you no good! We must accept that we aren't Arab people nor will they go out on a limb to help us out, indeed sometimes they outright conspire against us.

[Voltage]

I see you have grander ambitions in the topic far beyond a simple geographic contest of land that does not belong to Somalia. Be that as it may, I must assure you I do not believe we are Arabs nor do I even want a Somalia with a more pronounced Middle Eastern focused policy (as countlessly stated I am a pan-Africanist). Still, Yemen is our neighbor and relations must be at the least amicable. End of story.

[union]

You do have a soft spot and liking for Arabs and the Eastern world. Recently you declared that Somalia is more closely intertwined with them than its own African brethren. I never said that we should be hostile to Yemen, like I’ve made clear, but that we should acknowledge the fact that one of their former governments aided in keeping millions of Somalis under habashi occupation. We can’t just unilaterally explain away and pardon, Yemen must say its reasons now so that the wounds maybe healed. Circumstance does not make a wrong a right.

[Voltage]

Now, you seem like the vapid Arab-hating Somali secularists who view any type of good relations with the Arab world as a death sentence for them. The same once who accuse Somalis of being "Arabized" for wearing a khamez (something that has been part of Somali culture a long time) while they proudly wear the Levi Strauss jeans.

Don't confuse my political and social perspectives. Socially, outside of Somalia, Somalis people are the most closest to the Arab world and the wider Muslim world than anywhere else. There is no doubt about that. By culture, religion, history, etc being "intertwined" is not a mere state of opinion but a substantiated fact. Politically, however, Somalia's politics lies in a pan-African agenda.

[union]

I do not have any animus towards Arabs. I just want to dispel this myth that the Arabs are our cultural and spiritual brothers who are always at our side, a myth that large swathes of the Somali population believe. Sure we share cultural similarities; this is true for any two groups of people in close proximity to one another. But they have no acted in a way that justifies this blind Somali love for them. Arabs are a people who act to satisfy their own strategic interests, and we should do the same. If we sometimes have to take the pro Israel stance to receive some of their technology and assistance, let us do that. If we have to change sides to the Arab side to get a small slice of those petro dollars, let’s do that too. I support a policy where Somali interests are above all else.

[accident]

I do not have any animus towards Arabs. I just want to dispel this myth that the Arabs are our cultural and spiritual brothers who are always at our side, a myth that large swathes of the Somali population believe. Sure we share cultural similarities; this is true for any two groups of people in close proximity to one another. But they have no acted in a way that justifies this blind Somali love for them. Arabs are a people who act to satisfy their own strategic interests, and we should do the same. If we sometimes have to take the pro Israel stance to receive some of their technology and assistance, let us do that. If we have to change sides to the Arab side to get a small slice of those petro dollars, let’s do that too. I support a policy where Somali interests are above all else.

[Voltage]

It is a dangerous phenomenon when you bring politics into cultural and societal links. I live in the West, have been to a number of European countries and have also been to a half-dozen African countries. Even in neighboring Kenya, I have yet to see a society that is more closer to us culturally than Muslims and especially Muslim Arabs. I am talking about degree of similarity of culture. This is not something you can "dispel" because your politics wants you to. I don't think you realize how very intrenched Islamic customs are part of Somali culture. From how we marry, whom we marry, the types of foods we eat, our holidays, worldviews, the general sense of dress, and greetings, etc. Am I to think a Kikuyu Kenyan or a Dutch man or a Seattlite progressive in Queen Anne is closer to a Somali than a man in Yemen?

You need to come back down to earth and stop letting your avowed secular indentity misguide you into trying to shape the parameters of Somali culture and customs and social stratification. You will simply die a bitter man. Even look at the Jews who are the most secular community on earth. They are still ethnic Jews and are very much culturally and socially as Jewish as the Orthodox man. I think you have a lot of grievances against Islam, it is clear now you can't hide, and that is shaping your hardline attitude against the cultural kins of the Somalis.

Like I said, politically Somalia needs to look towards the African continent however those with your viewpoints having an ulterior agenda will only shoot yourself in the foot with some of your unnecessary and vapid unmitigated Arab-phobia.

Just as much as I am dead set against those detractors here of relations with Africa and the Black peoples, I am also as dead set against your unwarranted paranoia about Arabs/Muslims.

[union]

It is a dangerous phenomenon when you bring politics into cultural and societal links. I live in the West, have been to a number of European countries and have also been to a half-dozen African countries. Even in neighboring Kenya, I have yet to see a society that is more closer to us culturally than Muslims and especially Muslim Arabs. I am talking about degree of similarity of culture. This is not something you can "dispel" because your politics wants you to. I don't think you realize how very intrenched Islamic customs are part of Somali culture. From how we marry, whom we marry, the types of foods we eat, our holidays, worldviews, the general sense of dress, and greetings, etc. Am I to think a Kikuyu Kenyan or a Dutch man or a Seattlite progressive in Queen Anne is closer to a Somali than a man in Yemen?

You need to come back down to earth and stop letting your avowed secular indentity misguide you into trying to shape the parameters of Somali culture and customs and social stratification. You will simply die a bitter man. Even look at the Jews who are the most secular community on earth. They are still ethnic Jews and are very much culturally and socially as Jewish as the Orthodox man. I think you have a lot of grievances against Islam, it is clear now you can't hide, and that is shaping your hardline attitude against the cultural kins of the Somalis.

Like I said, politically Somalia needs to look towards the African continent however those with your viewpoints having an ulterior agenda will only shoot yourself in the foot with some of your unnecessary and vapid unmitigated Arab-phobia.

Just as much as I am dead set against those detractors here of relations with Africa and the Black peoples, I am also as dead set against your unwarranted paranoia about Arabs/Muslims.

Politics is of paramount importance in the world. The world is driven by the struggle for the distribution of power. I don’t care if an Arab worships the same God as me, eats the same food I eat nor weds the same way I do, if they oppose me politically they are my enemy. Take Western European countries for example, they have virtually the same culture but yet they’ve been at each other’s throats for centuries. I don’t make a big fuss about Somalis engaging in cultural exchanges with Arabs, indeed that enriches our society. However, the importation of dangerous Arab ideologies that erode Somali culture worry me, and I think we can both agree that this new craze for big jilbaabs and puritanical interpretations of Islam are alien to Somalia and have not contributed positively to our society. Arabs are our neighbors and a significant economic force in the world. I do not support a policy which would put Somalia in a hostile opposition to them. But neither do I support this lapdog mentality that some exhibit here.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Since when have Yemen ever prevented us from anything?

Opportunity kulahaa. We can't exploit the opportunities under our nose on our god given soil what makes you think we will sudenly become this big strategic nation?

We are a nation of failures functioning on 7th century tribal mentality and want to be taken seriously by people whose economic and political achievements in the 18th century we can't match in the present day.

Forget 18th century, we aren't even on par with the ancient Egyptians.