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Based wrote:^^for some, it's ambiguous and doesn't clearly define the rights of federal states vs federal government, while others are unhappy about the fact that federal states are even discussed.

Dumb ass somalis will never agree on anything. Whatever it is I hope it passes and we're done with it.

Murax wrote:Nomadic Warlord,
Whats with all this fuss about the constitution? Why do ppl hate it so much?

Murax, it's a draft constitution, in our case, we the Diaspora we can lodge our concerns and hope for the best. Our old constitution after independence had less than 200 people that had to approve it or reject it, that speaks volume. Fast forward 50 years later, different realities on the ground, we have 825 folks right now, they can amend it or approve it, there is nothing I or we can do about it. What matters is what happens next bro.

Voltage,

You see unlike some Puntland did not jump the gun. It was only after appointing a six-member Review Committee consisting of Ministers and Parliamentarians to review the new Draft Federal Constitution that Puntland called for major changes, not reject as you would have us believe and it was only after the appointed six-member Review Committee concluded "the Draft Federal Constitution violates the fundamental principles of federalism."

The state further called for the technical assistance of international partners. And you were saying it was "used like sacrificial lamb by UNDP and UNPOS to legitimize the process." Kinda hard to sell that point when the state is actually counting on international assistance don't you think?

The reality is it was the donkey who first flatly rejected the Draft Federal Constitution and it was he who later backtracked. Why? Perhaps he got what he wanted, the committee in charge of the Draft are after all only human and can be influenced. Whatever the case might have been this debacle of a Constitution will not see the light of day, not while Puntland is around. Farmaajo's fall out of grace I think can put things into perspective for us; it doesn't end well for anyone when Puntland goes on the offensive.

D-Runner wrote:Voltage,

You see unlike some Puntland did not jump the gun. It was only after appointing a six-member Review Committee consisting of Ministers and Parliamentarians to review the new Draft Federal Constitution that Puntland called for major changes, not reject as you would have us believe and it was only after the appointed six-member Review Committee concluded "the Draft Federal Constitution violates the fundamental principles of federalism."

The state further called for the technical assistance of international partners. And you were saying it was "used like sacrificial lamb by UNDP and UNPOS to legitimize the process." Kinda hard to sell that point when the state is actually counting on international assistance don't you think?

The realty is it was the donkey who first flatly rejected the Draft Federal Constitution and it was he who later backtracked. Why? Perhaps he got what he wanted, the committee charge of the Draft are after all only human and can be influenced. Whatever the case might have been this debacle of a Constitution will not see the light of day, not while Puntland is around. Farmaajo's fall out of grace I think can put things into perspective for us; it doesn't end well for anyone when Puntland goes on the offensive.

I can't wait for Samadoon's reply. I even quote D-Runner's response, so he won't edit it.

this is a known Puntland strategy to get some of its core demands accepted. It reminds me, the first Garowe meeting, when they were pretending to be against nominating august 2012 parlianment in 4.5 formula. I mean, it is difficult to think that they were not perfectly aware that any system other than the 4.5 was logically possible in Somalia at the time. It Seems that all they wanted was to say well we accepted this in sprit of moving forward and you, the other konfurians, should in return compromise that particular demand of yours too. As i understand the main concern for puntland now is the status of Muqdisho, they prefer Muqdisho to be a neutral city as opposed to it being part of a regional administration. For obvious reasons they also prefer parlianmetary system as opposed to presidential system. Then, why not demand something big and after a difficult negiotiations compromise and then compell others to compromise something big too . And why not pretend to be against this constitution and ptetend you are not in its driving seat and that it does not serve your interests, if you think that will lead to the support of the constitution by some people who were initially againt because they dont like puntland.

good game...

but who is puntland playing against?

there really is no competition.

you have the "parlaiment" ruled over by shariif which is filled with ignoramousus , and you have the other sharif as president.

gurey25 wrote:good game...

but who is puntland playing against?

there really is no competition.

you have the "parlaiment" ruled over by shariif which is filled with ignoramousus , and you have the other sharif as president.

Its not about "competition", Puntland is just looking after their own interests.

samatar133 wrote: this is a known Puntland strategy to get some of its core demands accepted. It reminds me, the first Garowe meeting, when they were pretending to be against nominating august 2012 parlianment in 4.5 formula. I mean, it is difficult to think that they were not perfectly aware that any system other than the 4.5 was logically possible in Somalia at the time. It Seems that all they wanted was to say well we accepted this in sprit of moving forward and you, the other konfurians, should in return compromise that particular demand of yours too. As i understand the main concern for puntland now is the status of Muqdisho, they prefer Muqdisho to be a neutral city as opposed to it being part of a regional administration. For obvious reasons they also prefer parlianmetary system as opposed to presidential system. Then, why not demand something big and after a difficult negiotiations compromise and then compell others to compromise something big too . And why not pretend to be against this constitution and ptetend you are not in its driving seat and that it does not serve your interests, if you think that will lead to the support of the constitution by some people who were initially againt because they dont like puntland.

How is the status of Mogadishu a concern? Did that articles on Mogadishu change in the constitution? I doubt it did, we haven't seen the latest draft which was distributed on 30th of April.

Why did they distribute this constitution the last minute. this thing seems to be intentionally planned not to be read, commented, and passed in its current format. I didnt think there were as many points that could be pointed out by Puntland. Give credit were its due, at least Puntland took the time and effort to review the draft and make suggestions democratically. We heard so much from others over the media about demonstrating and opposing it without really pointing at specific sections of it. Fresh off passing the Puntland constitution and being the first exemplary state of the new federal states, they have both the experience and institutions to stand up to the federal government. they have the right to merge both constitutions so that differences are not fought through in a rushed constitution in the coming years. Having well defined and strong constitution is better than having a very loose one. I am all for it if through these suggestions,this thing could be perfected.

the only flop is for faroole to cry to the international community rather than addressing the federal government, flying to Addis Ababa than Xamar, and requesting a meeting to be held in ethiopia, or Kenya.

Samatar133,

The status of Xamar and 'yaa leh xamar' has mostly been an internal debate, and so far its hasn't been resolved. there are those that say they have regional administration, while the federal government and their supporters have bitterly oppose such an idea. Puntland's suggestions seems to be in tow with the federal government but suggesting a greater say in its administration to states of the federal system:

Qodobka 9aad: Magaala Madaxda Qaranka
Halagu daro: “Magaalo madaxda waa meel loo siman yahay, waana in loo sameeyaa maqaam gaar ah (special status) oo ay ka wada xaajoodaan kana heshiiyaan Dowladaha Xubnaha ka ah Dowladda Federaalka Somalia.”
Sidoo kale, halagu daro baahinta xaruumaha Hey’adaha Federaalka Dastuuriga ah, sida Baarlamaanka, Golaha Fulinta, iyo Ciidamada (decentralization of Federal Government institutions).

excutive

What draf are you talking about sxb? you might be talking about a draft i am not aware of yet. But the one i know offers about four different options on Muqdishu status, where one of the options will ultimately be chosen. As far as I am know, it is not agreed yet. I am guesing u understand why muqdisho status is contested isue.

Sagaashan wrote:Samatar133,

The status of Xamar and 'yaa leh xamar' has mostly been an internal debate, and so far its hasn't been resolved. there are those that say they have regional administration, while the federal government and their supporters have bitterly oppose such an idea. Puntland's suggestions seems to be in tow with the federal government but suggesting a greater say in its administration to states of the federal system:

Qodobka 9aad: Magaala Madaxda Qaranka
Halagu daro: “Magaalo madaxda waa meel loo siman yahay, waana in loo sameeyaa maqaam gaar ah (special status) oo ay ka wada xaajoodaan kana heshiiyaan Dowladaha Xubnaha ka ah Dowladda Federaalka Somalia.”
Sidoo kale, halagu daro baahinta xaruumaha Hey’adaha Federaalka Dastuuriga ah, sida Baarlamaanka, Golaha Fulinta, iyo Ciidamada (decentralization of Federal Government institutions).

you are right this is the source of some disagreements I hope wisdom prevails and they got the courage to compromise and reach agreement accebtable to both sides. Hadii kale siduu Guray sheegay maxmiyad ayaa la galin doonaa, haday wax ku heshiin waayaan.

I wanna slap Fuckoole. This gaaleed constitution was made in Garowe.

gurey25 wrote:good game...

but who is puntland playing against?

there really is no competition.

you have the "parlaiment" ruled over by shariif which is filled with ignoramousus , and you have the other sharif as president.

Getting things they want but are in a dirrect conflict with the interests of the other main Konfurians especially the Muqdishawis, is not that easy for them. We will see how this game is played and how it ends.

Samater, have you read the constitution and the Puntland response regarding the articles it wants amended?