The 4.5 State

[Salah Al-Din]

please stop imagining your wants and desires into the heads of other.

gurey25,

Even if it was true that the whole world is against us; so what! Like you mentioned countless UN representatives have been given persona non grata over the years. lol It is like marching to your own tune is something alien? The only time Somaliland says "Sami3naa waa Adee3naa" is for the command of Allah SWT. Being subservient is missing in our national moral fabric. We are a nation with deep egalitarian roots.

whats even funnier is the knee jerk accusation that we are controlled by Ethiopia.
i mean the pot calling the kettle black...

Ethiopia does not have a say in our internal affairs, but it had allot of control over policy in somalia, well untill the rest of the world started paying attention and edged the Ethiopians out and since melez went awol.

but still its another case of projecting their insecurities on us.

He did seem genuinely concerned though. What will you do when the big bad wolf comes? LOL What we've been doing since from inception. LOL Showing them where to go.

[SultanOrder]

Perfect order you made allot of sense in your first post but then you start behaving like a crab again in a bucket, instinctively trying to pull his mates down.
We are not in the same situation, maybe you have a perverse wish that everyone was in the same boat but im sorry it is not reality.

This great UN conspiracy you say and their 4.5 state project is just bullshit.
You have too much respect for the UN, while we see it as only 5% better and more serious than the arab league.

The UN runs somalia, it runs the AU project but it is only a subcontractor for the US, EU who hold the reigns right now with Turkey and china on the sidelines attemtping to
stit things up.

As somalilanders we dont really care for the UN bureaucracy and they do not care for us.
The UN bureaucracy is filled with those from the third world countries that are anti-secessionist and they hate somaliland more than any darood i have ever run into, even on this forum.
All this hate is ineffective and they have little influence in Somalilland, while they run your country.
We have always had a bad relationship with them, how many UN officials were unceremoniously tossed back on the plane , or held in an airport hanger until their next flight after unttering undiplomatic words about somaliland.
even the weak UDUB regime of riyale managed to insult them and do the same.

They still came back and opened offices in hargiesa and they still have plans to move allot of their somali operations to hargiesa because of cost.
Today mahiga behaves diplomatically and humbly when he visits.

There is a difference between the UN bureaucracy and those who control the UN and we have excellent relations with the US and EU, and they both do not care about your sacred Somali unity, its all in your head.

Everyone is waiting for a Somali government, the world is serious, you will get a much deeper invasion of the international community into somalias daily life and you will continue to be a protectorate for a while longer.
They just require some sort of image of legitimacy, of respectibilty.
This is why they are going for TFG 2.0, followed by provincial elections and political parties within the next few years.

Somali unity, somaliweyne is not their concern,
it is yours.

please stop imagining your wants and desires into the heads of other.

Gurey, let's not jump to accusations of any of my perverted wishes. Nor did I say we are in the same position. I try to make a very clear distinction between the 4.5 state and the Somaliland state, and that I felt that it was over stepping it's bounds by claiming another sovereign state. Yes, I have a lot of respect for the UN because it is the real force in Mogadishu and other Amisom controlled areas, they are the single most powerful entity in the former Somalia state. Yes, I know who runs the UN.

Gurey, I have never mentioned the UN beaucracy because there is no need to, they take their orders from their policy makers the US. And the US has made very clear on their stance on Somaliland. Now how this will effect you guys in the future, I don't know, but they have set up strong points of contentions between the 4.5 state and Somaliland, which I believe is a deliberate plan to undermine your international independence.

Also I don't understand what Somali Unity and Somaliwayne is concerned with my topic as I am not advocating it nor do I believe in it. I actually say that Somali self determination and nationalism hinges on ones support for Somalilands independence and right to self-determination.

[SultanOrder]

whats even funnier is the knee jerk accusation that we are controlled by Ethiopia.
i mean the pot calling the kettle black...

Ethiopia does not have a say in our internal affairs, but it had allot of control over policy in somalia, well untill the rest of the world started paying attention and edged the Ethiopians out and since melez went awol.

but still its another case of projecting their insecurities on us.

Bro, are you ok, your the first person to mention Ethiopia in this topic.

[Salah Al-Din]

And the US has made very clear on their stance on Somaliland. Now how this will effect you guys in the future, I don't know, but they have set up strong points of contentions between the 4.5 state and Somaliland, which I believe is a deliberate plan to undermine your international independence.

The reality is not how you put it. The US, EU, UK have all said they have no qualms about the recognition of Somaliland. They just want the African Union to take the lead. Their stance has evolved from Somaliland being a renegade province in 1991, to a credible state that they can deal with. Formally they have stated it is up to the Somalis on what kind of relationship Somalia & Somaliland will have.

Your infantile fantasy that a newly installed government in Mogadishu will be given the weaponry and the finances to march into Somaliland all at the behest of the US doesn't make any sense. Even if that is true, we don't cower against such a scenario. We've shed enough blood to keep Somaliland sovereign against the forces of the Former Somali Republic which was a client state of the US. We know how to deal with such situations.

Either peacefully or militarily Somalia will have to come to terms with the reality that is Somaliland. We’re prepared for either!

[SultanOrder]

Hilary clinton made it clear in the Somalia Conference that the US supports this constitution that prentends to speak for the people of Somaliland, and that they believe in a unified 4.5 state. In my opinion there is damning evidence to show the US policy towards the issue of Somaliland/4.5 state relations. As for AU, good luck with that, do you know how many countries in Africa have separatist movements?

I made no assertion that there would be armed conflict between 4.5 state and Somaliland. I only said if you had anything to fear in 4.5 state it is Amisom, because they are the biggest military power, but I didn't say Amisom would fight Somaliland. I only mean to say that the two states 4.5/Somaliland are in a benign state of war.

In my personal opinion, I think the powers that be will use more coercive means to push Somaliland to do what they want. I do not say that they will be successful.

[Salah Al-Din]

Hilary clinton made it clear in the Somalia Conference that the US supports this constitution that prentends to speak for the people of Somaliland, and that they believe in a unified 4.5 state. In my opinion there is damning evidence to show the US policy towards the issue of Somaliland/4.5 state relations. As for AU, good luck with that, do you know how many countries in Africa have separatist movements?

I made no assertion that there would be armed conflict between 4.5 state and Somaliland. I only said if you had anything to fear in 4.5 state it is Amisom, because they are the biggest military power, but I didn't say Amisom would fight Somaliland. I only mean to say that the two states 4.5/Somaliland are in a benign state of war.

In my personal opinion, I think the powers that be will use more coercive means to push Somaliland to do what they want. I do not say that they will be successful.

Perfect_Order, the problem is you're afflicted with the same kind of disease that is rife in the politicians of Somalia. This disease is called a) International Community; b) quick fixes; and c) lack of confidence. In Somaliland we deal with issues at the root and put time & effort knowing full well we will succeed. Just look at our track record.

If you are not aware, Somaliland in its infancy in 1992 told the USA to take their nation building elsewhere. At the time billions of dollars were being poured into Mogadishu and the US had troops on the ground.

20 years later, now that Somaliland is a multi-party democracy with channels to US, EU & UK and even some Arab States you mean to tell me that Somaliland will be cajoled into giving up its sovereignty?

I think the powers that be know where Somaliland stands on this issue and they will not waste a single second on this issue. In that same conference you mentioned it is noted that it is up to the Somalis to define their future relationship.

Also, the only thing to fear is Allah. Definitely not some mercenaries called AMISOM. LOL I must admit though your boogey man tactics might have worked in 1991 when things were at their infancy, not now when Somaliland has shown a track record to outlast anything concocted in Mogadishu by foreigners.

[SultanOrder]

Salah-al-Din Guul

My tribe has signed a deal with the devil to make sure we are not left behind in the myriad of Somali politics, and thereby legitimizing the 4.5 state, and making my tribe partners in it. They have pitted my tribe against your state, but I support your cause.

[Khalid Ali]

Perfect order prior to Somaliland attending the conference in London the Brits told Somaliland government that if Somaliland attends than their case will be brought to the table there will be a comminique which will endore that Somaliland and Somalias TFG will open a dialogue and that than the IC will mediate. The international community is aware about how the situation is the African union tried to open the case of Somaliland at the african union in 2007 but it was forcefully removed by Egypt and Sudan. While Mr Paul kagame of rwanda raised the issue of Somaliland at the african union summit in 2007. Perfect order the international community is playing with you but they cant play with us they are playing with you because u let them play with u. because u are weak because ur goverment isnt supported by ur people because ur government was not created by ur people but it was created for u in foreign capitals. So we are not in the same ship. The udub goverment wanted to sit with Somalia but they asked the international community that if talks fail that there should be a way out the west and Somaliland coudent agree on that point. So the udub goverment totally ignored Somalia and said do u what u guys do with them. Just stay in Somalia. We will get what we want eventually we will sit with ur corrupted incompetent leaders whether they are controlled by the UN or african union we will play the game by our rules.

[The`Republic]

This is how I interpreted what PO is saying.

Somaliland: USA/UN look at us wooohooo, we are a Republic
USA/UN: Fund AMISOM to bring Somalia security back!
Somaliland: Somalia is our enemy.


Somaliland: UK/EU look at us wooohoo, we are Democratic
UK/EU: Fund TFG Parliament to stabilize Somalia politics!
Somaliland: Somalia is our enemy.

Rinse, repeat, recycle.

[Cirwaaq]

My house is burning and the only thing that gives me comfort is the neighbor that i hate the most has a semi attached property right next to mine.

We are both gona be homeless Na na na naaaaa na

I win I win because my house is burned down FIRST!

May Allah helps all to seek forgiveness and may Allah makes us all among those he guides.

Amiin

[TheblueNwhite]

My house is burning and the only thing that gives me comfort is the neighbor that i hate the most has a semi attached property right next to mine.

We are both gona be homeless Na na na naaaaa na

I win I win because my house is burned down FIRST!

May Allah helps all to seek forgiveness and may Allah makes us all among those he guides.

Amiin

Aamiin

[Salah Al-Din]

My house is burning and the only thing that gives me comfort is the neighbor that i hate the most has a semi attached property right next to mine.

We are both gona be homeless Na na na naaaaa na

I win I win because my house is burned down FIRST!

May Allah helps all to seek forgiveness and may Allah makes us all among those he guides.

Amiin

Amiin

Cirwaaq you are too funny.