When seeking purity goes wrong...

[ElfRuler]

Saudi Arabia is one big experiment that has gone awry.

ElfRuler, I think what Leftist is saying that Saudi Arabia's quest for purity in society through the segregation of men and women has led to deviant homosexual practices.

Such deviant sexual practices were always there.

We could easily argue that "less religiosity and more freedom of expression in America lead to more deviant homosexual practices". Both arguments don't hold much water


A person's sexuality is not so easily "flexible", unless we are to consider the idea that most humans are bisexuals who adopt whenever the opposite gender is scarce.

So, they're born gay?

Does one need to be "born gay" to perform an homosexual act?

Ahmed, 19, a student at a private college in Jeddah, said there was no shame in having a boyfriend in his private high school. Although he firmly rejected the label "gay", he admitted that he now has a "special friend" in college, too."

Next time you have a little tea-time with these Saudis, you should ask how their closeted countrymen explain their sexual orientation.

[Alphanumeric]

It was a combination of grandeous cultural expectations on wedding ceremonies and mehrs($200K+), legal limitations on marrying foreigners, lack of addequate employment and education opportunities, overbearing pressure to segregate, and almost nothing for young men to do. They use twitter and the like to set up new "date spots" until Vice police come and shut it down. Thought that was the most interesting.

It's a weird place. Guys do nothing but drive around all day. Some of them have their BBM pins pasted on their cars, hoping a girl will give him a shout. Rumour is guys with the best cars get all the pings? Lol, weird stuff.

Whether or not any of the above has a direct link to any homosexuall practices, I can't say. But I wouldn't be surprised.

@BBM pasted on their car

It's a messed up situation anyway, another case of extremism only making things worse. But why do most Saudi women wear the niqab? It's not obligatory therefore it would be better for young women to display their faces so that they're male countrymen may be saved from The Path of Gomorra

Haram! Fitnah! Shirk! Bid'ah!

Lol, forreal though, chances are you'll come across plenty women who'll swear the niqaab is obligatory. I bet some folks here think the same. Lol @ better to be on display.

At the end of the day, our sins are our own. No dude can blame the government for where his dong ends up.

[Leftist]

Because on a per capita basis, I bet there is more sexual perversion(criminal or consensual) going on in Saudi than Bangkok or Amsterdam. Why is that?

@ asking for evidence on a completely baseless conjecture

It's a rhetorical question.

[Alphanumeric]

Does one need to be "born gay" to perform an homosexual act?

I was asking you based on what you said.

If a human's sexuality is not "flexible", are some people born gay? Homosexuality is to be attracted to and arroused by the same sex.

Because on a per capita basis, I bet there is more sexual perversion(criminal or consensual) going on in Saudi than Bangkok or Amsterdam. Why is that?

@ asking for evidence on a completely baseless conjecture

It's a rhetorical question.

That makes even less sense lol.

[Leftist]

^^ Ok. Can't do the whole convoluted-exchange-with-alpha-that-goes-in-circles tonight, maybe some other time.

[Alphanumeric]

No! I will get the last laugh.

Night.

[igotkatzngingersnapz]

^^ Ok. Can't do the whole convoluted-exchange-with-alpha-that-goes-in-circles tonight, maybe some other time.

u hav a veri rightist atitude 2 sexuality

correl8in all homosexines 2 rape

u sure u a leftist

not a conservationist?

[ElfRuler]

What does this has to do with "purity"? If he went to Hajj and ended up raping a boy, then that could be considered "When seeking purity goes wrong".

- No such thing as 'purity' in Islam. And attaining it is a pipe-dream. We are born sinners who sin everyday without exception.

-When you think that you can be a 'perfect' Muslim and create a 'ideal' Muslim society by covering up and hiding women to an almost pathological point, you are going against the Sunnah of Nabiga as well as the fitra of human nature. And the results of that 'purity' experiment can be seen in the likes of Mazin AlOtaibi.

- When you demonize women as temptresses that should be avoided and shrouded in black(and only black, because a colorful hijab is a fitnah); that should not be looked at and spoken to(because their voice is cawrah) you're creating the conditions that lead to this: homosexuality is as common in Saudi islamic schools as bf-gf relationships are in western schools.

- Gender segregation as practiced in Saudi has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with Najdi/Bedouin culture. It's well-known that women during Nabiga's time were full participants in society. A glaring contrast with today's "don't be seen, heard, smelled, or spoken to".

- Instead of getting defensive, do you have an alternative explanation that isn't "every country has gays". Because on a per capita basis, I bet there is more sexual perversion(criminal or consensual) going on in Saudi than Bangkok or Amsterdam. Why is that?

I don't remember arguing the "Islamic-ness" of Saudi Arabia's social construction of the public/private sphere of both genders. I do not agree with it at all, if it makes any difference. However, I doubt Saudi men who lay down with boys/men will be more/less inclined if the gender segregation stopped.

Seeking purity is Islamic, why else would we be commanded to repent. You're either sinning or repenting.

I bet your last question does not need a serious answer

[grandpakhalif]

Because on a per capita basis, I bet there is more sexual perversion(criminal or consensual) going on in Saudi than Bangkok or Amsterdam. Why is that?

@ asking for evidence on a completely baseless conjecture

This is why this guy is not worth my time, he spews his opinions as facts without evidence and expects you to believe his bs. Where does he get his so called data, out of his ass I guess...

[ElfRuler]

Does one need to be "born gay" to perform an homosexual act?

I was asking you based on what you said.

If a human's sexuality is not "flexible", are some people born gay? Homosexuality is to be attracted to and arroused by the same sex.

Again, does one has to be born gay to perform an homosexual act.

Homosexuality in its essence is the act of sleeping with the same gender. "Attraction, aroused"....and all those emotions/feelings are subjective. But as for the sexual act itself, that my friend is objective.

I honestly, can not argue whether or not one is born gay. But each human has the ability to perform any sexual act, including an homosexual one.

[Alphanumeric]

Does one need to be "born gay" to perform an homosexual act?

I was asking you based on what you said.

If a human's sexuality is not "flexible", are some people born gay? Homosexuality is to be attracted to and arroused by the same sex.

Again, does one has to be born gay to perform an homosexual act.

Homosexuality in its essence is the act of sleeping with the same gender. "Attraction, aroused"....and all those emotions/feelings are subjective. But as for the sexual act itself, that my friend is objective.

I honestly, can not argue whether or not one is born gay. But each human has the ability to perform any sexual act, including an homosexual one.

"Attracted" and "aroused" are physical reactions. I don't know if I misworded my question or if something was lost in the reading. You've asked me the same question I've posed to you.

Anyway, you said what I wanted to read in the highlighted portion; sexuality is flexible.

[Leftist]

Elf,

Seeking purity is Islamic, why else would we be commanded to repent. You're either sinning or repenting.

If you put it like that, sure, I agree. Although I still wouldn't use the word purity which implies 100% perfection, which is impossible to attain. Piety is a better word. When seeking purity/piety(a good thing when done in moderation) goes wrong(by taking it to a extreme and going against fitra/human nature).

My last point is simple: Why is there as much(in some cases more) sexual perversion in Saudi, the supposed land of purity, as there is in the fleshpots of Bangkok and Amsterdam?

Maybe you'll argue that it can't be quantified and there is no basis for comparison. Fine, I'll cede that point. But why is there a homosexual epidemic in the country that constantly touts itself as an 'ideal Muslim society'?

I don't have any concrete answers, but my contention is that the extreme gender segregation in Saudi has a alot to do with it.

[Leftist]

Because on a per capita basis, I bet there is more sexual perversion(criminal or consensual) going on in Saudi than Bangkok or Amsterdam. Why is that?

@ asking for evidence on a completely baseless conjecture

This is why this guy is not worth my time, he spews his opinions as facts without evidence and expects you to believe his bs. Where does he get his so called data, out of his ass I guess...

A gift for you: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... et/305774/

But don't bother reading it cuz it's spewed opinions masquerading as facts without evidence. And they expect us to believe their bs.

[ElfRuler]

Anyway, you said what I wanted to read in the highlighted portion; sexuality is flexible.

If that is what you wish to have read.

There is a huge difference between being born gay and therefore performing an homosexual act, and being human and having the capabilities to perform an homosexual act. As you already know, not all men who perform homosexual acts consider themselves gay.

Just because one has the ability and the capacity to do a certain action does not mean that it's influenced by an underlying natural inclination.

[ElfRuler]

Elf,

Seeking purity is Islamic, why else would we be commanded to repent. You're either sinning or repenting.

If you put it like that, sure, I agree. Although I still wouldn't use the word purity which implies 100% perfection, which is impossible to attain. Piety is a better word. When seeking purity/piety(a good thing when done in moderation) goes wrong(by taking it to a extreme and going against fitra/human nature).

My last point is simple: Why is there as much(in some cases more) sexual perversion in Saudi, the supposed land of purity, as there is in the fleshpots of Bangkok and Amsterdam?

Maybe you'll argue that it can't be quantified and there is no basis for comparison. Fine, I'll cede that point. But why is there a homosexual epidemic in the country that constantly touts itself as an 'ideal Muslim society'?

I don't have any concrete answers, but my contention is that the extreme gender segregation in Saudi has a alot to do with it.

You're making wild statements without providing a shred of evidence. You can't pose a question build on misinformation and mere opinion.

Saudi Arabia is governed by the Saudi Royal/Ruling Monarchy/Family. They openly supply American armed forces who oppress Muslims. Who cares how they "tout themselves as"?

Learn about Islam and know about Islam, and you will never be bothered by the actions of those who are supposedly to be the best in conduct or the corruption of places that are viewed to be Holy. It's quite simply sxb, Islam is neither defined by people nor by a place. The whole Saudi population could become hardcore Christians, but that should not put a single dent in your faith in Islam.