One Question for Mad Mac and One For Dhuuso Dheer

[+chilli]

Could some1 define freedom, this word is used too much taken out of proportion.
No one can live in the real sense of this word otherwise we’d be xaawayans…
In every healthy normally functioning society, there must be some guide lines and restrictions. Yeah a woman should choose for herself, but 1st she needs to know what’s right and wrong presented with a limit to her ‘freedom’ of choice.
In the Islamic community young girls are taught to act a certain way and wear the hijab, some are forced<<this is not wrong but correct if you want your child to grow up right and have a healthy lifestyle later on…a leader holds the same position as a parent for his civilians.

Hijab and modesty is politically, socially, and Logical right…and if some1 had a truly open free mind, they’d choice the hijab…but that’s impossible, we have ideas and social norms and expectations hitting us from every direction.. Our minds are socially constructed…the Quran is our guide…

[dhuusa_deer]

Chili,

Freedom is defined as by the Shared Communal Interest. If it is the shared communal interest to preserve security, there must be curfew every night...you as an individual lose your 'freedom' to wander the city streets during curfew hours. You get me?

[dhuusa_deer]

Kambuli,

you didn't fully answer my question

...never mind.

[Wise-Man]

Well, I have to applaud for you Kambuli; ---- this is a better way to make these two guys understand that everybody has his/her own rights, religion, choice and does whatever he/she wants. When people perceive how people are different mentally and physically, then they start respecting other people and approach to them in a proper way.

[+chilli]

[quote="dhuusa_deer"]Chili,

Freedom is defined as by the Shared Communal Interest. If it is the shared communal interest to preserve security, there must be curfew every night...you as an individual lose your 'freedom' to wander the city streets during curfew hours. You get me?[/quote]


woow thats a very vague view of freedom ‘communal’?? do you really think its freedom to conform to the crowd..?? I always thought that was a form of control (the most powerful)...but yeah i get you...althou that was rhetorical question...

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Again, some of you are missing the point. The point is, that when it comes to general behavior, INDIVIDUALS should decide for themselves what is appropriate and what is not.

And no, the leader is not like a parent to a child. That is ridiculous. What makes you think some leader knows better than I what's right for me? There have been a shitload of bad leaders in this world, including a shitload of BAD MUSLIM leaders. Don't leave your fate in the hands of "leaders" or you will be sorry.

In short, in any decent society, each person can CHOOSE what they want to wear for clothing. Neither society nor God nor anyone else should choose for them.

[kambuli]

Mad Mac,

I would not charactrise you as someone who misses the point of discussion, because you are not one. You actually ignore and choose not to address. Here again I repeat my self.

You Mr Mad Mac always claim the ways of the Western countries is the best. You call that Freedom. And all I am saying is that not even in the western world everyone is free to do what ever they want to do with their body. I gave you an example of how prostitution is Illegal in many parts of the Western world. Does that mean someone is giving away his/her freedom to a clergy or governmnt body? No. If we do not follow rules and rugulations in any society then we end up in Anarchy and I do not need to explain anarchy to you.

So my dear, do not ignore facts to justify your "IDEAL" ideas as you call them. Everywhere you go you are bound by rules and regulations..


DD,

I addressed your question. I do not know which one you are not satisfied with?

If it is the Darwin's theory, even this morning in the news CNN that debate was being discussed in Pensylvania and thisis heading towards the Supreme Court.

[Steeler [Crawler2]]

Kambuli
You wrote:

"You Mr Mad Mac always claim the ways of the Western countries is the best. You call that Freedom. And all I am saying is that not even in the western world everyone is free to do what ever they want to do with their body. I gave you an example of how prostitution is Illegal in many parts of the Western world. Does that mean someone is giving away his/her freedom to a clergy or governmnt body? No. If we do not follow rules and rugulations in any society then we end up in Anarchy and I do not need to explain anarchy to you."

First of all, I am not claiming anything. I didn't say one place was better than another. Although, for me personally, I wish to live in a place that puts maximum emphasis on INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM. That is because I am old enough and smart enough to know that societies which place a premium on "benefit to society" at the expense of the individual soon become places where facism rules.

Be that as it may, I did anywer this query, you must have missed it. You ask:
"I gave you an example of how prostitution is Illegal in many parts of the Western world. Does that mean someone is giving away his/her freedom to a clergy or governmnt body? No. If we do not follow rules and rugulations in any society then we end up in Anarchy and I do not need to explain anarchy to you."

Actually, the answer to your question is yes, not no. Most certainly prositution should be legal. Why? Because it only harms the participants. The golden rule is, my right to throw a punch ends where your nose begins. Maybe I like whoring. Who the hell are you to tell me and some woman that we can not fock? It ain't your buisinesses or anyeone elses. This is how you end up with these facist societies like Yemen. Who the hell would want to live there? The people there complain about their leadership all the time. You can't have a society with rigid social requirements and honest leadership. Increasing state power over the individual to ensure a better quality of life is oxymoronic. The more power you give to the state to regulate individual behavior, the more you enable the state to control all aspects of society - social, economic and political.

[Jakeem]

[quote="dhuusa_deer"]
What is created? People?

People weren't created, they evolved. They learned through experience and that experience taught them to set up laws and customs.[/quote]


LoL that was very funny i needed a joke to laugh at this early.
Ok now seriously let's get serious, You don't really believe that people evolve out of no where just like POKEMANs?

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="+chilli"]
woow thats a very vague view of freedom ‘communal’?? do you really think its freedom to conform to the crowd..?? I always thought that was a form of control (the most powerful)...but yeah i get you...althou that was rhetorical question...[/quote]

freedom to me means the liberty to do as you please but such freedom doesn't really exist in the real world. If you do as you please, you're bound to step on the toes of others, then we lose our freedoms. It is in our interest to get along with others.

It is not conforming to the crowd but conforming laws and norms of the society you're presiding in. This is how 'laws' evolved. King Hammurabi, who wrote the first written set of laws, was forced to act cause it came more and more difficult to keep law and order since no one fully understood what the 'laws' were.

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="kambuli"]

If it is the Darwin's theory, even this morning in the news CNN that debate was being discussed in Pensylvania and thisis heading towards the Supreme Court. [/quote]

The Supreme court has already passed its verdict on Creation vs Evolution debate, siding with Evolution. However, this repackaged Creation theory, flaunted around as Intelligent Design (ID) is a bit more persuasive cause they disguise their religious undertones better then did the old creationist advocates. We'll see what happens.

[dhuusa_deer]

[quote="Jakeem"]Don't know If you seen it but have you ever looked at the american money it says ''IN GOD WE TRUST'' now I seriously doubt they gonna go for the evolvin thing[/quote]

I noticed but I also noticed the US constitution says religion has no place in governments!

[Jakeem]

Don't tell me soon the american money is goin to say
"IN EVOLVIN WE TRUST"

[dhuusa_deer]

If we connect the dots and notice patterns...it should be obvious to all that the more science explains, the less need for God or supernatural entity.

[Jakeem]

[b] Al-Badi^[/b]
The Incomparable, The One who created the creation and formed it without any preceding example

YOU DARE CAMPARE A SCIENCE TO HIM