Kenya wants Somalia and Somaliland to cut ties.

[Khalid Ali]

You are using Wikipedia let me post you the London Communique and the Ankara Communique and u will understand the Turks role in this

Public Statement On The Outcome Of The Somaliland/Somalia Talks In Turkey On 13 April.

On 13 April, Presidents Ahmed Mohamed Silanyo and Hassan Sheikh Mohamud met in Ankara to resume the Somaliland/Somalia Dialogue that was initiated at the London Conference in February 2012 and endorsed at presidential level in Dubai in June 2012.

The Somaliland Government is grateful to the Government of Turkey for facilitating the talks. The meeting achieved its aim of re-launching the Dialogue after the change of government in Mogadishu. The parties committed themselves to continuing their Dialogue, and endorsed the agreements reached in Chevening and Dubai in June 2012.

The Government of Somaliland welcomes the commitment of the government in Mogadishu to the continuation of the Somaliland-Somalia dialogue.

The Somali Government has agreed to encourage international aid and development for Somaliland. Somaliland will of course continue to engage directly with the donor community on its own development needs, including through direct contact with diplomatic and other interlocutors in Hargeisa.

Cooperation on security was an important part of the discussion. Somaliland believes that sharing intelligence and training will help the security forces of both countries to fight the scourge of terrorism, jihadism and piracy, and to address illegal fishing, toxic waste dumping, and maritime and serious crime, which have a detrimental impact on the lives of the people in the Horn of Africa. Somaliland hopes that in the future, the Dialogue can widen its focus beyond security issues to examine trade and investment as well.

In addition, the dialogue is mandated to clarify the relations between the two countries, in line with the Final Communiqué of the London Conference on Somalia. Somaliland’s view is that the dialogue's initial phase should focus on issues of practical cooperation, and to building trust between the parties before addressing the more fundamental issue of the two countries' sovereign relations.

Somaliland looks forward to the next round of talks, due to be held in Istanbul within 90 days.
- See more at: http://ramaasnews.com/index.php/News/Pu ... Hg9sm.dpuf

If you think the Turks have a role in these talks u are very wrong the talks in the London comminuqe indicate the following

Somaliland / Somalia talks: Chevening House Declaration
Friday, 22 June 2012 20:09
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Joint SL TFG teams at Chevening House Joint SL TFG teams at Chevening House CHEVENING HOUSE DECLARATION

JUNE 2012

1. Following the commitments in the London and Istanbul communiqués that the international community would support dialogue between the Transitional Federal Government of Somalia (or its replacement) and

Somaliland to clarify their future relations, the two sides met at a technical level on 20‐21 June at Chevening.

2. The meeting was hosted by the UK and co‐hosted by Norway and EU, at the request of the two sides.

3. The purpose of these preparatory talks was to establish a framework for future substantive talks.

4. The participants of the meeting welcomed the opening of a dialogue and emphasized their commitment to the continuation of these talks.

5. The participants:

(i) Agreed that the talks would take place between two sides ‐ the TFG (or its replacement) and Somaliland, in accordance with paragraph 6 of the London Conference Communiqué and paragraph 10 of the Istanbul II Conference Communiqué;

(ii) Noted the need to adopt a common approach to avoid anything that would undermine the continuation of the talks as defined above;

(iii) Committed to the continuation of the talks and called on the two presidents to meet to review progress as soon as possible;

(iv) Called on the international community to continue to facilitate the talks, including providing the two sides with external experts on legal, economic and security matters;

(v) Agreed to share experience on working more effectively with the international community on the use of development and humanitarian assistance for the people of both sides and called for the

International community to increase that assistance;

(vi) Agreed to cooperate in the fight against terrorism, extremism and serious crime;

(vii) Agreed to cooperate in the fight against piracy at sea and on land, maritime crime, illegal fishing and toxic dumping; and

(viii) Reiterated their support for ending the Transition in Somalia.

[Khalid Ali]

That is was never agreed on. Why do Hutu Moryaan members live in cloud cuckoo? No conference in stinky Mogadishu..

I never understood where the hatred between Hawiye iyo Isaaq is coming from. Tolnimadii Irir meyday?

irir is like NATO as Hawdian puts it , that is if we have shared interest at the moment that does not exist that said the Hawiyes are not our ancestral enemies we have just some communication problems thats why we have been going to Turkey the past year or so. Once we agree, than the Somali peninsula will shine, in the mean time shimbiriyoo heesa , waryadhaheen hees wanaagsan heesa.

[500ml]

what if the war criminals that were responsible for 88 are puniched, the destroyed buildings are rebuilt, the people who lost their loved ones are paid and create some kind of deal with FGS and somaliland aministration. But if you still believe in independence then I'll say that the isaaqs are always naive proud people who think they are much better than they really are.

You really dont get it hee , you think the Somaliland independence is because of the 1988 wars and the atrocities the late MSB and his regime committed, it goes way deeper the trust died in 1961 when the Somalilanders overwhelmingly rejected the Somali constitution. Dont worry about the destroyed buildings we reconstructed hargeisa from scratch. When the Somaliland officers when Somaliland was treated as a mere province of Somalia and Somaliland officerscarried a Coup d'état to reclaim Somaliland independence. When the Somalia govt later stopped claiming the Somali western region just to anihilate the SNM and they allied themselves with Mengistu. The purpose of the union was to free the hawd and reserved area' and the rest of the Somali western region. I think the union destroyed both of us Somalia it destroyed Somalia , and it destroyed Somaliland. lets stay way from this cancerous union that brought nothing but pain to both of our peoples. 500 ml i think you guys really do not need us u will do much better with out us.

What can I say Khalid... good luck on your quests for independence although I still and will always vehemently oppose it. All I'm going to say that this federal govt will go by all means to unite the people, he has said this in his speeches and he has says this to hic ministers. The AU and the arab league will oppose seccesionism and will never allow the independence of Somaliland; western goverments are in continued support of Hassan Sheikh gov and his agenda towards federalism and implementing it in the whole of the country.

[500ml]

what if the war criminals that were responsible for 88 are puniched, the destroyed buildings are rebuilt, the people who lost their loved ones are paid and create some kind of deal with FGS and somaliland aministration. But if you still believe in independence then I'll say that the isaaqs are always naive proud people who think they are much better than they really are.

Somaliland is not about Isaaq because if that was the case then we would've created a maamul goboleed based on our regions Maroodi Jeex & Togdheer + our parts of Sool and Sanaag. Then we would've asked for compensation for the State terrorism and maybe got ourselves a nice deal with the Mogadishu based government.

What you need to understand is the historical grievances of reer Somaliland. They were deceived and betrayed by people they thought were their brothers. No power sharing whatsoever, 33 parliamentary seats for our politicians while your politicians got 123 seats. Our generals and colonels that graduated from the Royal Military academy Sandhurst were forced to take orders from former Zaptiés. No economic equality and no development in Somaliland etc. I could go on.

Somaliland was annexed by Somalia and we won't stop until Somaliland is a sovereign country like it was in June 26, 1960.

[Khalid Ali]

What can I say Khalid... good luck on your quests for independence although I still and will always vehemently oppose it. All I'm going to say that this federal govt will go by all means to unite the people, he has said this in his speeches and he has says this to hic ministers. The AU and the arab league will oppose seccesionism and will never allow the independence of Somaliland; western goverments are in continued support of Hassan Sheikh gov and his agenda towards federalism in the whole of the country.

We dont care what you want or what your interests are or what you oppose we are not asking for your permission , i actually like that the elites of Somalia are opposed to Somaliland to SL state hood it gives Somaliland the chance and it gives Somaliland and its people the drive to carry on the struggle , that they will never find friends in Somalia.. Somalia is already broken in pieces and we will do everything to encourage it, to achieve our goals We dont really care what your leaders say or do we know their stance do you think we are not aware of that, that they are committed to the cancerous union. But God as our witness we will break this former Somali republic nation apart and take what belongs to us , and we do not care for the silly hairy Arabs our greatest enemies the Sudanese their country is broken in pieces South sudan broke away maybe darfur will break away to. Egypt is in turmoil and a sectarian civil war will break out. Actually Black Africa is for Somaliland or they are indifferent, there are many in Africa who support SL

[STARKAST]

Talking about Africa when parts of Isaaq are unionists + the 2 Darod clans you've hijacked not to mention parts of your Dir brothers. Misplaced priorities. Eydoors will always be Eydoors.
Disrespecting Arabs when they just paid and built for your (disastrous) airport.

[Chinaman]

You really dont get it hee , you think the Somaliland independence is because of the 1988 wars and the atrocities the late MSB and his regime committed, it goes way deeper the trust died in 1961 when the Somalilanders overwhelmingly rejected the Somali constitution.

You seriously with a straight face want to tell me that less than a year (1961) after British and Italian Somaliland joined to form the Somali republic in 1960 Somalilanders were already dissatisfied and wanted independence?!!

Are you seriously having a laugh? The people of Somaliland were bent on independence in 1961? The whole nation had a change of hearts in less than a year

I cannot take you seriously wallahi

Why did it take you so long to form a rebel movement then if you people were already dissatisfied less than a year after the union? And even when you did, your rebel movement never fought for breaking the union. Some how it only came up when the Somali government fell in 1990/1991.

[Khalid Ali]

There was a coup led by Somaliland officers in 1961 the moment Somaliland united with Somalia , Somaliland was badly mistreated they were marginalized only getting 3 ministerial position of the 15 cabinet members. While Somaliland was a full fledged state equal to that of Somalia The President the Prime Minister the police commander the army chief were all Koonfurians.Complete domination and Koonfurian chauvinism took over the entire country , which could be translated as full occupation. When Adan cade send walanweyn officers to Hargeisa after 1961, the north never had officers that were from the north only for the first year from 1960 up to 1961. the name we agreed on was the Somali republic. or Jamhuuiryadi Somaliyeed. Later The Koonfurians kept on calling the country Somalia, this automatically made Somaliland part of their Somalia a mere province of Somalia. the walanweyns showed their true colors in one year yes, we always wanted to break away the SNM might have never talked about this , but the sentiment of breaking away was high in the country in the 80s SNM just honored the wishes of the people. In order to have friction when fighting siad bare the SNM avoided union and independence talks after siad bare is defeated. And as we did we put the clock back to 26 june 1960 on 18 may 1991.

[Kabriid]

what if the war criminals that were responsible for 88 are puniched, the destroyed buildings are rebuilt, the people who lost their loved ones are paid and create some kind of deal with FGS and somaliland aministration. But if you still believe in independence then I'll say that the isaaqs are always naive proud people who think they are much better than they really are.

Somaliland is not about Isaaq because if that was the case then we would've created a maamul goboleed based on our regions Maroodi Jeex & Togdheer + our parts of Sool and Sanaag. Then we would've asked for compensation for the State terrorism and maybe get ourselves a nice deal with the Mogadishu based government.

What you need to understand is the historical grievances of reer Somaliland. They were deceived and betrayed by people they thought were their brothers. No power sharing whatsoever, 33 parliamentary seats for our politicians while your politicians got 123 seats. Our generals and colonels that graduated from the Royal Military academy Sandhurst were forced to take orders from former Zaptiés. No economic equality and no development in Somaliland etc. I could go on.

Somaliland was annexed by Somalia and we won't stop until Somaliland is a sovereign country like it was in June 26, 1960.

That's the truth, I guess you couldn't handle it.

[Chinaman]

There was a coup led by Somaliland officers in 1961 the moment Somaliland united with Somalia , Somaliland was badly mistreated they were marginalized only getting 3 ministerial position of the 15 cabinet members. While Somaliland was a full fledged state equal to that of Somalia The President the Prime Minister the police commander the army chief were all Koonfurians.Complete domination and Koonfurian chauvinism took over the entire country , which could be translated as full occupation. When Adan cade send walanweyn officers to Hargeisa after 1961, the north never had officers that were from the north only for the first year from 1960 up to 1961. the name we agreed on was the Somali republic. or Jamhuuiryadi Somaliyeed. Later The Koonfurians kept on calling the country Somalia, this automatically made Somaliland part of their Somalia a mere province of Somalia. the walanweyns showed their true colors in one year yes, we always wanted to break away the SNM might have never talked about this , but the sentiment of breaking away was high in the country in the 80s SNM just honored the wishes of the people. In order to have friction when fighting siad bare the SNM avoided union and independence talks after siad bare is defeated. And as we did we put the clock back to 26 june 1960 on 18 may 1991.

Look I'm not talking about some dubious coup that was about to take place, for all we know if the coup did go throw successfully those Somaliland politicians could have took over the whole Somali republic like Siyaad bare and turned the country into a dictatorship.
The thing is it failed so we have no real idea about their (true) intentions.

The reason Somaliland joined with Somalia was because the people wanted the union and there is no way I believe that the people of Somaliland made a U-Turn about the union in less than a single year
Taasi waa sheeka xariir.

The dissatisfaction among the public grew with Siyaad Bare and the terrible stuff that happened in the 1980's. That's what played the biggest part. There is no need to deny the truth.

[gurey25]

You guys always view things from Somalia SFG and Puntland Somaliland perspective. You have to view it from the Kenyan perspective and their divisive politics in Somalia, i think only Sahal tries to understand the Kenyan policy here.

wrong from the 69 coup till 78 isaaq where siyad barres biggest admirers and supporters.
reason was the massive dissatisfaction with somali politics from 1961, they believed the millitary government would be better, and siyad barre did not show his dark side till 77.

the reasons for the change in how the faqash government was viewed started as early as the ogaden war when dozens of officers where executed on the battlefield because they refused to obey ridiculous orders, the majority where isaaq.

soon after the WSLF turned into an ogaden millitia thatwas running riot in isaaq lands and behaving like fuedal lords, raping any woman they fancied , taking any property and killing anyone in their way. as isaaq was mostly disarmed, they went to the government and it refused to do anything. after this millitias where organized and arms smuggled in 3 years before SNM was setup.

[GIJaamac]

it will lose some political and economic incentive it receives from the international community , Somalia is is in recovering mode and the SFG sells to the world that its committed to the reconciliation process. Now from Somaliland it will not lose much because Somaliland was never part of the reconciliation process, other than ongoing the clarification talks who were a success so far. the SFG already fell out with Puntland a major stakeholder of the peace process. And the Jubba state were talks they partly agreed on how the future federal structure of Somalia should look like.

The Kenyans want to have their fingers in Somalia. From day one Kenya has been messing with Somalia domestic affairs. Right now it wants to ally the Somali regions that are wiling to cooperate with the Kenyan initiative. The same way Ethiopia in the Mogadishu war wanted the support of Somaliland Puntland and Mogadishu to support the Ethiopian troops in Somalia. Kenya never wants to be viewed as a hostile state to Somalia, and it trying to find a new strategy because the SFG and Jubba land are now very close after the addis agreement.

You guys always view things from Somalia SFG and Puntland Somaliland perspective. You have to view it from the Kenyan perspective and their divisive politics in Somalia, i think only Sahal tries to understand the Kenyan policy here.

Bla Bla Bla, bullshit as usual

Somalia will lose nothing, specially aid money, that SL is getting their share in Somalia's name.This is why i call you an undercover dirty waqooyi. The only loser is SL, who will not have the chance to secede if they obey Kenyan wishes. You are trying to make the people of Somalia jealous and you want SL to begged to stay in the union. Ain't going to be happen sxb. Stop the advertisement of SL , you are making fool out of yourself.

[Kabriid]

You guys always view things from Somalia SFG and Puntland Somaliland perspective. You have to view it from the Kenyan perspective and their divisive politics in Somalia, i think only Sahal tries to understand the Kenyan policy here.

wrong from the 69 coup till 78 isaaq where siyad barres biggest admirers and supporters.
reason was the massive dissatisfaction with somali politics from 1961, they believed the millitary government would be better, and siyad barre did not show his dark side till 77.

the reasons for the change in how the faqash government was viewed started as early as the ogaden war when dozens of officers where executed on the battlefield because they refused to obey ridiculous orders, the majority where isaaq.

soon after the WSLF turned into an ogaden millitia thatwas running riot in isaaq lands and behaving like fuedal lords, raping any woman they fancied , taking any property and killing anyone in their way. as isaaq was mostly disarmed, they went to the government and it refused to do anything. after this millitias where organized and arms smuggled in 3 years before SNM was setup.

I wouldn't say admirers but they agreed with his hanti wadaag policy. Somalis thought it would increase economic equality and it did because the Soviets were running the show behind the scene and when they left everyone saw his incompetence. Cabdullahi Yuusuf might have been a mucjiso sidiisa kale but the man wuxuu ahaa nin dhiig leh, the only one who refused to hand over his officers so they could be executed.

The SNM destroyed WSLF militarily but their successors are still running around doing dhaanto in the bushes because they're powerless. They're more worried about Isaaq expansion in Hawd than the TPLF junta in Addis, so their agenda hasn't really changed since 78.