So women

[ihatewritingessays]

maybe in the past fgm was brought by men. but today it's women who are doing it to other women & to oppose it whould be to support 'dhillonimo.' It's so embbeded in thier psyche that such oppression is honourable and even 'islamic' which is why it's still practiced.

I think the idea is the same for the asians aswell.

[Lillaahiya]

Society assumes they will, whether they do it on an individual basis than the man is held responsible, but it is still marriage. Look at concubines in those nations that had them, the women still had rights and benefits, and their children were considered legitimate. Those societies and women accepted it because some kind of social contract exists.


I only meant that your whole statement was biased and harkening to your original statement that men create or introduce customs, and that is for you to prove.

No one said they aren't legitimate marriages though By using your line of reasoning, married women are threatened by single females, regardless of whether they are promiscuous or not, as they run the risk of their husbands marrying another woman (or two/three/etc) and splitting resources between them--usually unevenly.

You gave a sound biological argument as to why women (and men) should avoid promiscuity (illegit children, shame, lower rates of marriage, disease, etc) but this could be generalized to the vast majority of women across various cultural backgrounds in the past and present in some places. From a Somali perspective, I believe men are forced to take pride in their spouses compared to women. I think our community has more sympathy for women who have wayward husbands than the other way around. Since men are breadwinners, there is no 'reason' to stay married to their spouse if she doesn't meet cultural expectations of a good wife. Men are warned against marrying deviant woman and when they do, he is often looked down upon by the community. A woman could marry the town drunk but Somalis will never accuse her of being a drunk. The town drunk will even get brownie points from his kinsmen for settling down with a 'good woman' and is constantly told 'naagtaada u eekow, nin hagaagsan iska dhig'. If a man marries an alcoholic, even if he's never taken a sip in his life, people will assume he drinks as well/wey islaa caban. Because our community views men as reflections of their wives, men try to marry the most esteemed women in the community, which are almost always virgins. All in all, promiscuous women lessen men's social status. Men who are affliated with or marry promiscuous women (and not immediately divorce) are less respected by both men and women because they are less honourable. For Somalis, honour can influence gaining membership into certain groups or networks, access to economic resources, and/or determine one's general social standing, therefore maintaining one's honour is imperative. Women maintain their honour by remaining virgins; men maintain their honour by marrying a virgin. For the latter, circumcision is a way of ensuring they marry a virgin aka honourable woman.

[SultanOrder]

So you are saying that because men's honor is so tied to their women, men brought the custom of circumcision to them? But I ask you, what good is circumcision to men after marriage? An unwed girl only benefits from this practice, because it certifies their chastity and consequently their "honor" value to men. But once married, there is no physical barrier or proof of fidelity. Therefore, women are the greatest risk to men, when they are wed. So, how does this practice really help men's honor?

Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. I don't really see how we can inference based upon current society norms and customs on who introduced what several millennia ago.

[Lillaahiya]

Somalis think that if a girl can stay chaste while single, she'll stay faithful while married. That is not always true but this in the general rule our community follows. Plus, men are more concerned w/ being the first than the last, so whether she'll cheat later on is a risk they're willing to take. There's also an array of consequences that a woman faces when she cheats, assuming she gets caught, that are much more severe.

I'm going w/ what prolly happened But ok

[SultanOrder]

Naw, she got it from her mama.

If we look at other cultures that didn't have fgc, did they have issues with sexual activity prior to marriage? I don't think they did for the most part, so why would somalis in antiquity? If we look at it from that angle, I don't think that is the only reason we would adopt such a dangerous practice. And women wouldn't either. I believe women had more autonomy in the small family units we had, as most societies that have similar small units do.

[Lillaahiya]

Different society, different control mechanisms I didn't say that's the ONLY reason but that's the reason why I believe men support it, along w/ earlier stating that men have the power to create culture, especially considering that they were ones who normally traveled and could be exposed to foreign customs.

Ah well, we won't agree on it.

[Rockstar]

Men brainwashed women into f-king over other women.

[SultanOrder]

Lol Lillahiya there is no reasoning with you, you can't use your on assumptions to back up your claims

[Lillaahiya]

I told you before; all theories make assumptions. I took a stance and told you why. I could be wrong but what you're hung up over is that I'm prolly not