If Samaale existed...

[Arabman]

Shariif Cayduruus says he migrated in the 9th century from Yemen after splitting from an Army that fought a Christian enclave in Arabia and landed in north Somalia...

Isn't Caydaruus the cad cad historian? I've a copy of his book. A great book that covers almost all groups.

[Grant]

Casanova's reference was to some of James Dahl's work:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=335396

This is by far the best explanation of events that I have seen. I think the northern-expansion theory has been put to rest.

[OjOO]

did james dahl information is based of the book said shidad husein ?

[Grant]

OJOO,

I have no clue, and there's not even a link. Hope Casanova comes back.

[OjOO]

There's book i read that explained how some somaal are kicked out in bale and far beyond awash river. some even near near what is now amhara and tigray region.
probably was something to do with somaal never settling down with there animals.

However somaal migration was through wabi shabeel and juba. i believe the first who settle there were Randille and Masaai. and digi mirif people and Booni, followed by samaale and borana.

[Casanova25]

Casanova's reference was to some of James Dahl's work:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=335396

This is by far the best explanation of events that I have seen. I think the northern-expansion theory has been put to rest.

I can give you Guys some links to many books.. and i can't find some others aswell online just yet. but those I have is good enough to understand the journey from the North to the South. in my opinion samaale was live around the 9th century

http://hamiticunion.proboards.com/index ... &thread=25

after the immigration to the South era...
http://www.classzone.com/books/wh_05_sh ... 424_PS.pdf

NB: before the immigration to the South, Mogadishu was ruled by persians called Muzzar or something close. Barawe, and marka all the way to Jubba, were swahili lands. and the immigration of Saint Balad is also recorded and the battles that took place in Gaalkacyo. thats how the berber race entered to Mogadishu. so i guess the immigration was in 11th or 10th Century. maybe mid 10th Century.

But i'm searching for Saint Balad's book i can't find it online.

@ arabman: do you have links to the book of Cayduurus?

[Hyperactive]

quick question, is samale was father of all somalis or hawiyah only?

[Arabman]

@ arabman: do you have links to the book of Cayduurus?

I don't believe someone has made a copy-to-pdf effort. Your best chance is to go or send someone to make a copy (photocopy, scan, etc) at this place:
http://lccn.loc.gov/ne68000219
or search ne 68000219 at http://www.loc.gov/index.html

[Casanova25]

quick question, is samale was father of all somalis or hawiyah only?

Dir(Issa, Gudabirsi, & biyomal) and hawiye( Hiraab, karanle etc etc)

@arab

your link is not working?

[Arabman]

^Try again.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

quote="Somali-Transporter"]

I would like to propose a "new" theory for the origins of the Somali nation.

The irony of this is that this is actually not so much a new theory as what Somalis have been saying forever about how their nation got started, but that colonial anthropologists picked apart in the 19th century by pointing out dozens of supposed contradictions and generally relegating the history of the nation to the status of fairy tales.

In ancient times, there were the Berbers. They were always called Berbers, that was their actual name. "Barbarian", comes from Berber, but only due to the fact that ancient Greeks found the way of life of the Berbers (with whom they had significant contact due to the incense trade) to be "uncivilized".

In ancient times the people we usually call Berbers nowadays were not and were in fact, never called that name. Europeans called them Berbers erroneously, but the people who can only properly be called Berbers were the ancient people of the Horn of Africa. The people called Berbers today were in ancient times known as Libyans, though their name for themselves was Imazigh or Amazigh.

before about 1000 CE, the kingdom of Himyar ruled much of the East African coast, and the Empire of Axum (and after it's disintegration, it's successor states) ruled the highlands, but noone ruled the Berbers. Indeed, even the Berbers did not rule the Berbers, the Berber Country was a patchwork of powerful independent clans, and historically there was never a mention of a single overall or even hegemonic Berber ruler. Despite the lack of unified authority, no empire ever successfully imposed its will over the Berbers. Indeed, despite being right next door to Yemen, Himyar ruled as far south as the Jubba River but no part of the Berber Country, which in this time extended only as far south as the Hawd and Mudug. Each clan in the Berber Country controlled their own market town in which to trade incense, these towns were all near incense producing mountain table-lands.

At the time, the Berbers had no camels, and herded cattle in the harsh north. Long ago, this was easy to do as in ancient times Somalia was wetter, but a thousand years ago Somalia was as dry as it was today. After the Roman Empire largely converted to Christianity in the 4th century one of the biggest demands for incense dissapeared, and life became hard. It was an age where famine stalked the Berber Country, and many of the Berber Country began to seek a better life. They took their herds and began the long journey southwards, one branch became the Samburu, another the Oromo.

In the 6th century however, the domestication of the Camel spread to the Berber Country. One must realize that in the ancient Berber society, ownership of cattle and citizenship were synonymous. Even today a follower of the old religion, be he Samburu or Oromo, cannot be a Samburu or Oromo without owning cattle, without them he is "Gabbaro", an outsider and lesser person. In these desperate times, a few clans of Berbers decided to sever their ties to everything they had known and take on the "Gabbaro" label that their former kinsmen would place upon them. These were the Samaale and the Sabe.

The camel brought the Samaale an infinite horizon of opportunities unavailable to their kin, and the Samaale became wanderers, spreading across the horn of Africa. One branch, the Sabe moved south and settled in southern Somalia. Some came into contact with their distant cousins the Oromo and were defeated by them, becoming the Gabbra, others came into contact with their other cousins the Samburu and lived in peace with them, becoming the Rendille.

The Samaale on the other hand remained in the Berber Country, and came in contact with the Arabs, who conquered Eritrea in the 8th century, and with Islam. An Arab missionary from Eritrea journeyed to the Berber Country and preached to the Samaale, beginning their adoption of Islam. The clan of Irir and the descendants of the missionary Abd al-Rahman ibn Isma'il settled around Jigjiga in the Hawd and founded a new nation, the Somali. The year was about 1000 CE. Around the same time, another branch of the Samaale which had migrated southwards and settled in Mudug became Muslims via Muslim merchants in Mogadishu, these were the clan of Ibrahim Balcad.

What happened next was a gradual process. While many clans simply settled around Jigjiga and Harar, others began a slow but steady expansion and conquest southeastwards. This process did not really stop until the 19th century, over 800 years later, due to the colonial era.

The first to be conquered by the Somali were those Berbers of the Berber country who remained non-Muslims, the Midgan, the Tumaal and the Yibir. The second to be conquered was the Argobba Sultanate of Shewa, in 1285, which was Muslim at the time. Upon the conquest of the Sultanate of Shewa, the Darood established the Sultanate of Ifat.

Insert Sheikh Isaaq around 1350 or so, not much to say here.

The Ajuuraan branch of the Ibrahim Balcad took over Mogadishu around the year 1400, and spent the next 200 years conquering their distant relatives the Sabe, and fighting the Portuguese, something the Somali would also spend a lot of time doing as well. The Ajuuraan campaigns southwards brought many Somalis to settle in the conquered territories of the south and intermarry with the Ajuuraan and eventually to overthrow them, establishing Somali rule over the entire horn of Africa. With their overthrow, the now-Muslim Sabe also threw off Ajuuraan domination, establishing the clan territories we know today.

This is from James Dahl's Work from different books he tried to mix Things to have one picture. not bad

The Sabe, oromo and Gabburu/samaburu were not part of the Berber race. they where already in South somalia.
''Raxanweyn'' (meaning something that came together and became big) so today you find Arabs Geledi, Persians, Oromo, other lost tribes from Samaales, Daroods, Isaaq, Midgaans, Yibir, etc etc. the raxanweyn are like the Oromo they invite in all kind of tribes in. so i even doubt how much is stil sabe within that tribe.

But the Nomadic tribes are not like that (Dir, Hawiye&darood) and why is Isaaq not Nomadic bc they have never left that region. but they do also expand there lands towards hartis of the North.

So the true Berber Race were Only (Samaale, Agwa, Afar) they also share the warrior culture, and live on the same location for many years. while the Oromo left that region more then 2400 years ago. but the samaals are still in that region and other parts left for South '' The Conguest of South Somali'' were only my sword.

DNA will Proof that (Samaale, Agwa, and Afar) came from the same father and more related do to land sharing and neighbours.[/quote]


So much bullshit in one post.

[Bilis]

DNA is the right approach to this topic. The Eurasian component in Somali DNA is only 15%. OJOO is right.

That's only Y-DNA (a uniparental marker). It's not autosomal DNA, which actually quantifies overall ancestry.

[Bilis]

Sa maal is the people of cattleherder, that's before camel arrived from arabia. it has nothing to do with arab.

the two words you will find nomadic people of all over horn of africa is Sa maal, Lo doon. Both are cow herders or cattle herders.

It's doubtful that that's the source of the ethnonym since there are Neolithic period cave paintings in northern Somalia that show camels and other domesticated livestock.

Here are some examples from Laas Gaal:




Another archaeological site in the area called Dhambalin also has one of the earliest known depictions of a hunter on horseback. This is interesting because horses too were not first domesticated in Africa.

[LiquidHYDROGEN]

Sa maal is the people of cattleherder, that's before camel arrived from arabia. it has nothing to do with arab.

the two words you will find nomadic people of all over horn of africa is Sa maal, Lo doon. Both are cow herders or cattle herders.

It's doubtful that that's the source of the ethnonym since there are Neolithic period cave paintings in northern Somalia that show camels and other domesticated livestock.

Here are some examples from Laas Gaal:




Another archaeological site in the area called Dhambalin also has one of the earliest known depictions of a hunter on horseback. This is interesting because horses too were not first domesticated in Africa.

What does that mean exactly?

[James Dahl]

...why aren't there myths, legends and epics about him? Are somalis so lazy they can't make up creation myths and hero epics like every other culture? Sounds like he was made up for political reasons.

Now that I think about it, the only somali stories I know are diin iyo dacawo, dhegdheer and Cigaal shiidaad which are all later modern folktales.

There probably are, you should find out about them. Samaale's grave is in Yurkud, Bakool, and I bet there are lots of stories about him.

The cave art is hard to date exactly, people just guess at the dates. The cattle depicted on the cave walls are probably ancestors or distant relatives of "Sanga" cattle, like the Horro breed that Oromo raise, or the related Ankole-Watusi breed from Uganda. It used to be believed that they were a crossbreed with Zebu cattle from India with European cattle, but this has been shown to be untrue by genetic evidence, they are a distinct African breed of cattle that's been around for thousands of years.

Personally I would estimate a date closer to the modern day, between 5000 and 1000 years ago, based on the presence of domesticated cattle and wild camels.