Somalia has no future as a state.

[sahal80]

Guys, Somaliland is not a huge issue addressed in my topic. I included it because in ny estimation Somaliland's tribal culture is not different at all then all Somalis.

Really? based on what I have learned there is a tribal cultural difference between Somaliland and Somalila. I thought The tribal structure & cultural is weaker with the people from Somalia. Somaliland has used a tribal system to keep Somaliland together. It seems to have its advantages and disadvantages. Can you really say you don't see a difference especially here on snet after all the years you have been here.I would even say Somalilanders are even more open about discussing tribal stuff. I don't know just my observation.

Somaliland is the place where just a month ago a tribe burned a part of Burfo because the government happened to demote an army officer of their clan or something. The reality is the only thing sustaining unity is the shared overwhelming and primary focus on attaining independence from Somalia. Once that has been achieved, that MAIN focus for toeing the line and they are left to each other, the focus will also descend lower and the factors will only include Isaaq clans.

You are assuming that is the only thing holding Somaliland together. I can think of a couple things currently holding it together, and what might help it later.
1)The tribal system, for the time being
2)People fear war and chaos, and only have to look at Somalia and their own history as a reminder

Hopefully the growth of education and government will continue to help
Just my 2 cents

Lol do you really believe what you are stating in here? Your region consists mainly one clan how can you compare with...just have a look at your cabinet wich is about 27 ministers in wich 21 of them hail from the ruling clan let alone the other unknown posts! How can you then compare one clan place with a place of equal 5 clans!!

Sorry about changing the topic I just couldn't help myself after reading this sheeko aka different culture!.

[SimplySerene]

Meyle I thought elders were part of the Somaliland government , there fore which makes it a tribal system.

Maybe i should step back from this discussion

[Meyle]

SimplySerene,


The elders are not part of the government, they have a different role in SL society.




Sahal,


Isaaq happens to be majority but the rights of other clans are respected. A non Isaaq man was ruling SL from Hargeysa for 8 years after he won democratic elections. That would never happen in Somalia, minority clans are not even respected in their own regions.

[grandpakhalif]

I've come to your conclusion a long time ago, only an Islamist regime can keep Somalis united, it's a formula that worked for Ahmed Gurey in the 16th Century and it worked in 2006 with the rapid success of UIC. If foreigners left us alone surely we we'd be better off.

People like sahal support HSM because they have personal interest in the continued colonization of Somalia, with the increased outsourcing of soldiers to foreign african nations, Somalia is now only seen as a cashcow by these boorish mercenaries.

Atleast Puntland/SL have their own security apparatus, their governments are much more capable of being a nation than SFG ever will.

[Arabman]

People like sahal support HSM because they have personal interest in the continued colonization of Somalia, with the increased outsourcing of soldiers to foreign african nations, Somalia is now only seen as a cashcow by these boorish mercenaries.

Did you mean AMISOM by HSM?

[SimplySerene]

SimplySerene,


The elders are not part of the government, they have a different role in SL society.

Sorry . My bad. Lets all pretend I never made any posts here.

[grandpakhalif]

People like sahal support HSM because they have personal interest in the continued colonization of Somalia, with the increased outsourcing of soldiers to foreign african nations, Somalia is now only seen as a cashcow by these boorish mercenaries.

Did you mean AMISOM by HSM?

HSM = Hassan Sheekh Mahmooud

[Meyle]

SimplySerene,


The elders are not part of the government, they have a different role in SL society.

Sorry . My bad. Lets all pretend I never made a post here.

You don't need to apologize, you're one of the few intellectuals we have in this place.

[Arabman]

HSM = Hassan Sheekh Mahmooud

Thanks for the clarification.

[Even123]

HSM = Hassan Sheekh Mahmooud

Thanks for the clarification.

You thought HSM stood for Harakate al-Shabaab Mujuhadeen, didn't you?

[Arabman]

You thought HSM stood for Harakate al-Shabaab Mujuhadeen, didn't you?

Of course. I was like, sahal is the last person who could support xarakada.

[sahal80]

Sahal,
Isaaq happens to be majority but the rights of other clans are respected. A non Isaaq man was ruling SL from Hargeysa for 8 years after he won democratic elections. That would never happen in Somalia, minority clans are not even respected in their own regions.

Well, the riyaale part was a great social and political progress and some thing that may never happen within other clans and regions. Its a known thing as a clan that your the most advanced clan or the smartest as cabdulqadir oromo puts it but your dominating all the institutions from cabinet to parliament and the political parties maybe because of being the mainly single clan, That is my point, I'm not talking about your system and who can be president on behalf of this party and that but your tribal power sharing wich you cannot compare to our equal clan-based institutions from army, police, ambassadors, parliament, cabinet, hence I refute this claim of having stability because of this "different culture" no its because of being one clanland!

I'm not going to say what most somalis believe like the historian abdulqadir oromo about riyaale becoming a president in somaliland "was to prevent an intra-conflict/war between the central clan but I can say different thing wich is the ruling party-wich was a subclan dominated party- at that time UDUB had picked him to prevent losing the power for another party-a subclan dominated party - since they had their time under cigaal. In other words riyale was serving UDUB interests.

[SultanOrder]

Simple, I assure that that there is zero difference in terms of the tribal structure and culture for all of Somalis. You could go to a small town near zaylac all the way to NFD, and other than the different accents and the tribal names, they are exactly the same people. They all have the same mentality, and the most important thing to them is the rains so that their livestock will survive and flourish. Then you go to medium size cities, and they are all the same, other than some are more peaceful than others. Most of the horn doesn't have any real governance, including "Somaliland", so they are all around the same developement, with the exceptions of major metropolitan cities like Xamar, Hargeisa, Burco, Bosaaso, Kismaayo etc.


Also, how have the Isaaq on s'net been any different tribally than the other qabiils on here?

[SultanOrder]

Meyle, you have the definition of a tribal democracy, where people vote based on tribal lines, did you forget your most recent lower government elections?

Somaliland is at where Somalia was at in the 60's

[Meyle]

Sahal,


Maybe Somalia needs one dominant clan. Isaaq dominates because we outnumber all the other clans by far. The second largest clan in Somaliland is Gadubiirsi and they're smaller than the 4 largest Isaaq sub clans respectively, those clans being Habar Awal, Habar Yoonis, Cidagalle and Habar Jeclo. When Riyaale was in office his clan and sub clan dominated many sectors and no one opposed. Today they don't dominate because they're not in office but they're always granted the Vice President seat and they have a minimum amount of seats within the government to make sure they get their share of the pie. The same goes with other clans as well. The Ciise and HG - Fiqishini who are among the smallest clans in SL, have their own ministers.

We have a different political culture in Somaliland as well. It's based on collectivistic values.The greater good comes before individual interests. In Somalia it's more about alliances and political interests and individual interests.