The blessed Kacaan! Another Siyad would be great

[XimanJaale]

My Nigga Ximan, sxb how come Farmaajo the current incompetent PM, the one before him and Afweyne all have the same characteristic; vision and characters and all Somalis loved them.
.

Yh Farmaajo was actually loved by Somalis, you can see from the global Somali reactions (June protest). I don't know about Saacid or the current PM, I never stated Somalis loved them. You sound like emotional cunt by the way.

[Murax]

Murax and BlackRain if another 'Siyad' came you'd be the first to revolt. How do you combine being pro federalist and Siyadist?

War Ilah ka cabso tolnimo ayay kaa tahay waxan

Yes Siyaad Barre came into power through bloodless military coup which paved the wave for him to rule the country with iron fist. But if another Siyaad came into power in a different method like democracy I will doubt they will revolt. Because Siyaad Barre had a vision and character many Somalis loved, all these people hating on Siyaad Barre due it mainly because of his clan. They attacking Siyaad Barre because of the clan he hails from. They have no clue about who Siyaad Barre was and what he did, they never lived in that era. All they hear is biased reports from their parents or tribalist fiefdoms.

My Nigga Ximan, sxb how come Farmaajo the current incompetent PM, the one before him and Afweyne all have the same characteristic; vision and characters and all Somalis loved them.

Murax, you talking from a personal perspective and trying to pass it off as general opinion. Come on son, is the American education system that bad.

The two tribes barre attacked where the Mjareteen and Isaaq and guess what they are the only two tribes with function organised regions. He attacked them because they had visions and he saw them as threats because he had nothing but a hammer to offer...

Majerteen were not attacked, but Abdullahi yusuf specifically. He was a Military General who was a opponent to Siad Barre just like Caydiid was. It was personal not qabil. As for Somaliland, there was no war from 1969-1988 that was 19 years. War started, and unfortunately innocents were killed. That said 1988 was when things were breaking down all over so it is foolish to say that from 1969-1988 MSB was plotting to fight MJ/Issaq. Can You think rationally for one post and just take the emotion out of it? A real Man tells the truth of every situation and removes emotion.

[STARKAST]

He targeted Majerteen not just Yusuf aun. Watch yourself. After the war in 77 and specially the last 5-10 years of the regime is when the population knew the regime was doomed.
Reer gedo specifically ought to denounce the obvious crimes of the regime instead of treating msb like a paternalistic saint !

[XimanJaale]

He targeted Majerteen not just Yusuf aun. Watch yourself. After the war in 77 and specially the last 5-10 years of the regime is when the population knew the regime was doomed.
Reer gedo specifically ought to denounce the obvious crimes of the regime instead of treating msb like a paternalistic saint !

He didn't target Majerteen. His ambition wasn't to target Majerteen. It was AY that attacked Balanbale with Ethiopian forces and massacred innocent people and then they attacked Galdogob and massacred innocent people. In return the Isaaq general for SNA that was stationed in Central Somalia revenged AY' people without the authority of Siyaad Barre.

Please tell history properly. Who gave AY the right to attack these town? Who gave AY the right to bring Ethiopian forces into our country?

[skywalker25]

Where the pathetic ramblings of Ximan and the Barre worship lose is when it comes to providing sources. lets make this serious and back up your claims with quotes and statements from Humanwatch or amnesty because they will only reject your nonsense..

[XimanJaale]

Where the pathetic ramblings of Ximan and the Barre worship lose is when it comes to providing sources. lets make this serious and back up your claims with quotes and statements from Humanwatch or amnesty because they will only reject your nonsense..

So Humanwatch were present when AY invaded these towns with Ethiopian forces? and they were present when the Isaaq general retaliated? Duli yahow take your rants where the sun don't shine. Adigo oo kale maba jecli inaanba la murmo, you are beneath me.

[skywalker25]

Where the pathetic ramblings of Ximan and the Barre worship lose is when it comes to providing sources. lets make this serious and back up your claims with quotes and statements from Humanwatch or amnesty because they will only reject your nonsense..

So Humanwatch were present when AY invaded these towns with Ethiopian forces? and they were present when the Isaaq general retaliated? Duli yahow take your rants where the sun don't shine. Adigo oo kale maba jecli inaanba la murmo, you are beneath me.

Ximan, do amnesty international report of every village battle. If AY committed treason why did his top have to pay the price? If the SNM was fighting the regime why did whole cities in the north get bombed to punish the civilians and why did isaaq civilians get killed in Mogdisho for no reason other than being Isaaq..

Bring sources you children of the stolen moonies......

[lali99]

Majerteen were not attacked, but Abdullahi yusuf specifically. He was a Military General who was a opponent to Siad Barre just like Caydiid was. It was personal not qabil. As for Somaliland, there was no war from 1969-1988 that was 19 years. War started, and unfortunately innocents were killed. That said 1988 was when things were breaking down all over so it is foolish to say that from 1969-1988 MSB was plotting to fight MJ/Issaq. Can You think rationally for one post and just take the emotion out of it? A real Man tells the truth of every situation and removes emotion.

It will be fine if you will take your own advice and speak truthfully to make your case heard instead of trying to pass one over us. SNM was created in 1981 and as early as those years, the regime started to target civilians in Somaliland. If you think that motivation for those attacks were not qabil based then you yourself does not think rationally and cannot put emotion out of your post for the love of kacaan regime(darood).

And yeah there are enough documents about when civil war started in the Somaliland and creation of SNM thus no need to deny any dates. 1988 is actually when regime made an agreement with ethiopia and SNM came out full swinging into Somaliland however before that it was guerrilla warfare.

[STARKAST]

Who gave MSB a right to 1 man dictatorship ? Should i go on ?
His ambition was to neutralize all threats to his power and this meant blood. Blood is cheap to some people. XimanJaale don't be a fool and dispute that he targeted civilians by their clan.
It would be wise to swallow your pride and accept what was done. Nonetheless the atrocities of the regime can't be attributed to just MSB.
With that said his rule was still Superior to what we have today. Marehan kids swallow your pride for reconciliation.

[XimanJaale]

Ximan, do amnesty international report of every village battle. If AY committed treason why did his top have to pay the price? If the SNM was fighting the regime why did whole cities in the north get bombed to punish the civilians and why did isaaq civilians get killed in Mogdisho for no reason other than being Isaaq..

Bring sources you children of the stolen moonies......

I'm still waiting for that so-called amnesty report.

Yes SNM was fighting the regime whilst using civilians as human-shields. The government had every right to bomb SNM let it be through infantry or air attack same way Ukraine today are battling rebels groups in their own country. Siyaad Barre or the Kacaan didn't had the intention to target your clan or kill your people, you can blame all that on your SNM so-called hero's. Not Siyaad Barre's fault that your people are anti-Somalia and anti-Somalinimo, they rebelled in 1961 and tried again in 1981 which lasted all the way to 1988.

[XimanJaale]

Who gave MSB a right to 1 man dictatorship ? Should i go on ?
His ambition was to neutralize all threats to his power and this meant blood. Blood is cheap to some people. XimanJaale don't be a fool and dispute that he targeted civilians by their clan.
It would be wise to swallow your pride and accept what was done. Nonetheless the atrocities of the regime can't be attributed to just tqabil.With that said his rule was still Superior to what we have today.
Marehan kids swallow your pride for reconciliation.

Why don't you stop lying. It wasn't Siyaad Barre that killed innocent people in Balanbale and Galdogob and brought Ethiopian forces into the country. Siyaad Barre didn't need to target Majerteens, Abdullahi Yusuf made his own clan a target by committing a treason and causing a massacre.

About the dictatorship the whole nature of his in gain power allowed him to do be a dictator. It's not like democracy was invented by Somalis so I don't know why you are yapping about the type of governance we had. Aslong as we had peace and prosperity then so be it. Go back to your deen and stop promoting your western democracy to our people.

[skywalker25]

Ximan, do amnesty international report of every village battle. If AY committed treason why did his top have to pay the price? If the SNM was fighting the regime why did whole cities in the north get bombed to punish the civilians and why did isaaq civilians get killed in Mogdisho for no reason other than being Isaaq..

Bring sources you children of the stolen moonies......

I'm still waiting for that so-called amnesty report.

Yes SNM was fighting the regime whilst using civilians as human-shields. The government had every right to bomb SNM let it be through infantry or air attack same way Ukraine today are battling rebels groups in their own country. Siyaad Barre or the Kacaan didn't had the intention to target your clan or kill your people, you can blame all that on your SNM so-called hero's. Not Siyaad Barre's fault that your people are anti-Somalia and anti-Somalinimo, they rebelled in 1961 and tried again in 1981 which lasted all the way to 1988.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1990/WR90/AFRICA.BOU-09.htm

For example, the abolition of the NSS was not accompanied by the demise of other security agencies with similarly unlimited powers of arrest and detention and notorious reputations for torture and ill-treatment of detainees. These include the President's own bodyguards, the Red Berets; the "Backbreakers," a branch of the military police; the Hangash, another branch of the military police; the Victory Pioneers, a uniformed paramilitary group; and the investigative wing of the ruling Somali Revolutionary Socialist Party (SRSP). Similarly, the decision to dismantle the NSC did not guarantee a fair system of justice because other courts, such as the Mobile Military Court and the Regional Security Court, retained the power to sentence people to long prison terms and even death without any pretense of due process. In an effort to show that the government was opening the political system, President Barre resigned as Secretary General of the ruling party, only to be replaced by a son-in-law who for many years headed the NSS.


People respectable people requested him to step down....

the government continued to arrest and detain citizens without charge or trial for peaceful expression. In June, 45 prominent Somalis, including the first civilian president, the former president of parliament, former ambassadors, civil servants, religious leaders, elders and intellectuals, were arrested after they signed a document that was sharply critical of the government's human rights and economic policies and detailed steps toward national reconciliation. They were detained for three weeks and brought to court on charges of sedition and treason, which carry the death penalty. Surprisingly, they were acquitted for lack of evidence -- the first such acquittals ever in a political trial in Somalia. The trial, which lasted only a few hours, became a major political event, with the court surrounded by huge crowds facing heavily armed guards. The government was clearly anxious to avoid a bloodbath if heavy sentences were imposed.

Random killings by soldiers, particularly the President's heavily armed bodyguards, the Red Berets, as well as by ordinary criminals and soldiers in plainclothes, became so common that people were afraid to leave their homes at night. The government blamed "robbers" for the murder of a number of foreigners, but it was widely believed that they were killed by the Red Berets. Shooting was heard every night in Mogadishu and corpses were found in the morning in different districts. Both soldiers and civilians were responsible for looting government warehouses to obtain food; looting of private homes was facilitated by the frequent absence of electricity, adding to the climate of fear. Government troops and rebels used rocket-propelled grenades, injuring many innocent bystanders. Bomb explosions at the central post office, at a military barracks and outside a government ministry killed at least 10 people.

The Red Berets shot dead over 100 civilians at a soccer stadium on July 6 after the crowd jeered the President; over 300 were injured. A number of demonstrators, policemen and soldiers died in late October when protests about a sharp increase in gasoline prices and calls for the release of political prisoners escalated into violent clashes in Mogadishu. Scores of others were injured. Families of those injured during political protests often did not take their wounded to hospitals for fear of arrest. From the end of November to the end of the year, more than 150 people died in Mogadishu, mainly as a result of fighting between two clans, the Abgal and the Galgalo. The Abgal accused the Galgalo of attacking them at the government's instigation. In addition, many civilians died from shots fired from passing cars belonging to the army and security agencies.


ximaanxare, it was not the SNM who were using the civilians as shield but the regime was targeting the as a policy..

The government's counterinsurgency strategy continued to draw no distinction between civilians and armed insurgents. Targeting the nomads who make up an overwhelming majority of the country's population, the army and pro-government militias sought either to punish them for their presumed support of the rebel movements or to discourage them from providing any such assistance. In Belet-Weyne, Kismayo, Bosaaso, Burao, Loya'ade and other towns and villages, the army killed unarmed civilians, destroyed their livestock and water-reservoirs, and looted and burned their homes and warehouses. This repression has encouraged the civilian population to arm itself and to form militia groups. The increasingly militarized situation throughout country, as well as the government's lack of effective control over much of the territory, rendered the government's promise to hold multiparty elections largely meaningless.

[XimanJaale]

^

That report talks mainly about 1990, the day the government collapsed and everything went apeshit and wild. Bring me authentic reports from the 69, 70's 80's when Siyaad Barre was in power for 21 years.

[skywalker25]

In the case of Somalia, the stabilityof the governmenthad been threatened since 1981 by the rising military successes of the Somali National Movement (SNM), a northern-basedguerrillainsurgencyderivingthe majorityof its support from the Isaak clan, as well as by smaller insurgent groups, such as the Hawiye-dominatedUnited Somali Congress (USC) and the Ogadeni-dominated SomaliPatrioticMovement(SPM

SNM guerrillaas entered the Somali city of Burao on the evening of May 27, 1988, and assassinated all senior government and military officials. The first stage of a previously planned "finaloffensive" designed to force the collapse of the Siad regime, the guerrillas initially scored stunning successes against the Somali armed forces; most notable among these victories was the capture of large portions of Hargeisa,the second largest urban area in the country.When faced with trading hit-and-runtactics for the need to defend fortified positions, the SNM was devastated by Somali counter attacks in July and August that virtually destroyed Burao and damaged three-quartersof all the buildings in Hargeisa.
In a wave of terror that followed the initial military assault,the Somali armed forces reportedly engaged in a "systematic pattern"of attacks against unarmed Isaak villages, as well as summarily arresting and executing an unknown number of suspected SNM supporters.7"It is conservatively estimated," noted one Department of State-commissionedstudy of the conflict, "that at least 5,000 unarmed civilian Isaaks were purposefully murdered by the Somali Armed Forces between May 1988and March 1989,in the absence of resistence and in contexts which presentedno immediatedangerto these forces."8

Long time critics of the US-Somali relationship in the US Congress, most notalby the House Sub committeeon Africa,did not accept the military rationale of coming to the aid of a strategically. Rather,congressional critics complained of US weaponry being used by the Somali armed forces to bomb urban areas indiscriminately and to execute civilians whose only crime was belonging to the Isaak clan. The Somali government'sresponse to the northern uprising merely strengthened preconceived notions of Siad's regimeas a gross violatorof human rights that had lost the support of its people

,for example, approximately 450 civilians allegedly were killed when, in the aftermath of the arrest of four prominent Muslim leaders, Somali armed forces fired on demonstrators emerging fron the principal mosques in Mogadishu.This occurred just prior to the Bush administration's request for approximately $20 million in ESF aid to Somalia for FY 1990.Not surprisingly, congressional critics seized upon this event and successfully blocked the administration's aid request.Indeed, members of the House Subcommittee on Africa, perhaps the most vocal and influential opponents of continued US aid to Somalia, described Siad's reform packageas "meaningless"in the absence of a sincere effort to meet the legitimate demands of the SNM and other guerrilla a insurgencies seeking the overthrow of the government.18

[XimanJaale]

Boring.